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Russia v Ukraine


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9 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Ames is an American author who owned a radio station in Moscow until getting kicked out of the country by Putin. He's not an apologist. 

 

 

 

 

 

It would help if, rather than rushing to (yet again) shit on Ukraine, he spent 2 more minutes on reading the replies of people featured in the documentary under the CBS tweet, before posting.

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24 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

It would help if, rather than rushing to (yet again) shit on Ukraine, he spent 2 more minutes on reading the replies of people featured in the documentary under the CBS tweet, before posting.

I think Ames's well known veiws on both Russia and Ukraine being massively corrupt are not without merit. He knows the countries better than most.

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2 hours ago, Gnasher said:

I think Ames's well known veiws on both Russia and Ukraine being massively corrupt are not without merit. He knows the countries better than most.

He should not be so quick to fall for any buljshit then.

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Yes. Their posts make sense, his does not. I have not seen the CBS programme and I think neither has he. The allegation that 70 percent of over $10 billion in military assistance has somehow been pilfered sounds totally ludicrous. The fact that the information is related to assistance from the first eight weeks of the war that at the time has not reached the frontline yet due to logisitcal cock-ups sounds logical.

 

Pilfered by whom? To be sold where? Hidden from the donators, how? Hundreds of pieces of barrel artillery, tanks, helicopters, a whole battery of HIMARS, several 100k of arty shells, hundreds of drones, all gone somewhere, stolen by "corrupt Ukrainians"? So lets not send them anything any more, right? Lets instead deal with the big stability factor in the region, yes?

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5 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Yes. Their posts make sense, his does not. I have not seen the CBS programme and I think neither has he. The allegation that 70 percent of over $10 billion in military assistance has somehow been pilfered sounds totally ludicrous. The fact that the information is related to assistance from the first eight weeks of the war that at the time has not reached the frontline yet due to logisitcal cock-ups sounds logical.

 

Pilfered by whom? To be sold where? Hidden from the donators, how? Hundreds of pieces of barrel artillery, tanks, helicopters, a whole battery of HIMARS, several 100k of arty shells, hundreds of drones, all gone somewhere, stolen by "corrupt Ukrainians"? So lets not send them anything any more, right? Lets instead deal with the big stability factor in the region, yes?

Sorry who's posts make sense? Some random people on Twitter?

 

Ames is a respected American journalist who has studied and written for years on the geopolitical situation regarding America and the old Soviet Union countries. As I've said he's been kicked out of Moscow by Putin, so hardly an apologist. Dosn't mean he's right but he's definitely not a gullible fool as you bizarrely seem to suggest. 

 

It's not a question of "not sending them any more" it's a question of gaining truths (many journalists and media outlets are banned in Ukraine) especially as the west is about to go into economic freefall.

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14 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Sorry who's posts make sense? Some random people on Twitter?

 

Ames is a respected American journalist who has studied and written for years on the geopolitical situation regarding America and the old Soviet Union countries. As I've said he's been kicked out of Moscow by Putin, so hardly an apologist. Dosn't mean he's right but he's definitely not a gullible fool as you bizarrely seem to suggest. 

 

It's not a question of "not sending them any more" it's a question of gaining truths (many journalists and media outlets are banned in Ukraine) especially as the west is about to go into economic freefall.

You should really start thinking with your own head and attempt to make points of your own or counter arguments made, rather than repeating that "somebody is a respected so and so" because it really does not mean anything.

 

Truths about what? That Zelensky is selling American howitzers and artillery shells to... who exactly? Moldova? Or to Hezbollah, hidden under the grain? Or to the Russians?

 

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1 hour ago, SasaS said:

You should really start thinking with your own head and attempt to make points of your own or counter arguments made, rather than repeating that "somebody is a respected so and so" because it really does not mean anything.

 

Me?  You're the one who has swallowed the offical narrative hook line and sinker. It was a CBS TV report, make of it what you will. You're the one who dismissed it on the basis of a few comments off people on twitter. You've shown no critical thinking at all, you've just once again shot the messenger because they've asked questions you didn't like being asked.

 

How anyone can trust people like Johnson regarding large deposits of money to Ukraine after the PPE scandal is bizarre, unless ofcourse you've also got skin in the game. Arms and oil companies shareholders are doing well, whilst millions in the west  west are being led to economic ruin. It won't just be innocent people in Ukraine dying this winter. Targeted sanctions against oligarchs etc were just and fair, the widespread economic sanctions were foolish. 

 

Quote

Truths about what? That Zelensky is selling American howitzers and artillery shells to... who exactly? Moldova? Or to Hezbollah, hidden under the grain? Or to the Russians?

 

 

Who mentioned Zelensky? Ukraine, like Russia has an awful lot of very dubious people. I believe some German journalists/media outlets as well as American are also reporting on possible corruption. We'll see.

 

https://www.csis.org/analysis/keep-western-assistance-flowing-ukraine-must-engage-corruption-concerns-head

 

 

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8 hours ago, Gnasher said:

 

Me?  You're the one who has swallowed the offical narrative hook line and sinker. It was a CBS TV report, make of it what you will. You're the one who dismissed it on the basis of a few comments off people on twitter. You've shown no critical thinking at all, you've just once again shot the messenger because they've asked questions you didn't like being asked.

 

How anyone can trust people like Johnson regarding large deposits of money to Ukraine after the PPE scandal is bizarre, unless ofcourse you've also got skin in the game. Arms and oil companies shareholders are doing well, whilst millions in the west  west are being led to economic ruin. It won't just be innocent people in Ukraine dying this winter. Targeted sanctions against oligarchs etc were just and fair, the widespread economic sanctions were foolish. 

 

 

Who mentioned Zelensky? Ukraine, like Russia has an awful lot of very dubious people. I believe some German journalists/media outlets as well as American are also reporting on possible corruption. We'll see.

 

https://www.csis.org/analysis/keep-western-assistance-flowing-ukraine-must-engage-corruption-concerns-head

 

 

I will try to make it short, because it is pointless arguing with you. I am dismissing the allegation that 70 percent of military aid has somehow gone missing (from the tweet promoting the doc trailer), because it is preposterous, not because someone told me so.

 

I am also well aware why various outlandish allegations are constantly being pushed, it is part of a campaign to stop helping Ukraine militarily. It comes from various spheres, for various reasons, with varying arguments - it will make no difference, it will cause the WWIII or a nuclear zombie holocaust, it will only end up in hands of the Russians, the corrupt Ukrainians will only steal it, stupid untrained Ukrainians will not know how to use it anyway, it will only prolong the war etc. And at the same time, it is  blatantly obvious that the only way to stop this war is to help its victim defend itself better and with plentiful evidence it works - that is why Russians are screaming about it so much.     

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2 hours ago, SasaS said:

I will try to make it short, because it is pointless arguing with you. I am dismissing the allegation that 70 percent of military aid has somehow gone missing (from the tweet promoting the doc trailer), because it is preposterous, not because someone told me so.

 

I am also well aware why various outlandish allegations are constantly being pushed, it is part of a campaign to stop helping Ukraine militarily. It comes from various spheres, for various reasons, with varying arguments - it will make no difference, it will cause the WWIII or a nuclear zombie holocaust, it will only end up in hands of the Russians, the corrupt Ukrainians will only steal it, stupid untrained Ukrainians will not know how to use it anyway, it will only prolong the war etc. And at the same time, it is  blatantly obvious that the only way to stop this war is to help its victim defend itself better and with plentiful evidence it works - that is why Russians are screaming about it so much.     

You keep painting that whitewash. Amnesty, CBS  Ames and the UN are all obviously mistaken.

 

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220707-ukraine-must-fight-corruption-too-says-un-development-chief

 

They should've listened to an amateur general on social media. Skin in the game?

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19 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

You keep painting that whitewash. Amnesty, CBS  Ames and the UN are all obviously mistaken.

 

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220707-ukraine-must-fight-corruption-too-says-un-development-chief

 

They should've listened to an amateur general on social media. Skin in the game?

If you mean me, I am not pretending to be a general, I just have an active interest in this situation because, unlike most people on here, I have been following Ukraine for a lot longer and it is in various respects much closer to home for me than most people that read this thread, so there is also an element of strong emotional involvement.

 

I am so much better informed of what is going on there than you are it is funny we even have these occasional debates.

 

BTW, your last link which you, as per usual, have not even read after quickly googling for something you think supports your point deals with the future reconstruction funds and their application in the environment of corruption and need for safeguards.

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1 hour ago, SasaS said:

If you mean me, I am not pretending to be a general, I just have an active interest in this situation because, unlike most people on here, I have been following Ukraine for a lot longer and it is in various respects much closer to home for me than most people that read this thread, so there is also an element of strong emotional involvement.

 

I am so much better informed of what is going on there than you are it is funny we even have these occasional debates.

Look chump you may be better informed than me but I can guarantee you are not better informed than people like Mark Ames or the people on the ground from Amnesty International, or the UN to name just three. So I suggest you take your condescending tone and stick it where the sun doesn’t fucking shine. 

 

 

Quote

BTW, your last link which you, as per usual, have not even read after quickly googling for something you think supports your point deals with the future reconstruction funds and their application in the environment of corruption and need for safeguards.

 

I've read the link thanks. You're the bonzo who instantly dismissed the documentary and informed reaction linked but instantly agreed with a few randon nondescript replies on twitter because it suited your agenda. 

 

It's people such as yourself who fell for the snake Island/red baron propaganda. You're either financially benefiting from the continuation of this war or a gullible fucking idiot. I've a feeling its the former.

 

Now fuck off and wank over that copy of Vogue.

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43 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Look chump you may be better informed than me but I can guarantee you are not better informed than people like Mark Ames or the people on the ground from Amnesty International, or the UN to name just three. So I suggest you take your condescending tone and stick it where the sun doesn’t fucking shine. 

 

 

 

I've read the link thanks. You're the bonzo who instantly dismissed the documentary and informed reaction linked but instantly agreed with a few randon nondescript replies on twitter because it suited your agenda. 

 

It's people such as yourself who fell for the snake Island/red baron propaganda. You're either financially benefiting from the continuation of this war or a gullible fucking idiot. I've a feeling its the former.

 

Now fuck off and wank over that copy of Vogue.

 

I really envy you.

 

If I could only borrow your brain for like half an hour, how much rested I would feel after that.

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