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Russia v Ukraine


Bjornebye
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4 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Anyway back on the subject of Ukraine it seems protests against the war may be becoming more common throughout Russia if reports are to be believed. Crowds at concerts chanting 'fuck the war' in St Petersburg and Moscow apparently.

 

They may as well be chanting 'I don't like cricket' for all the good it will do. Full on civil disobedience is needed and that's never going to happen. 

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6 minutes ago, ZonkoVille77 said:

 

They may as well be chanting 'I don't like cricket' for all the good it will do. Full on civil disobedience is needed and that's never going to happen. 

Over 2000 Russians have been found guilty of "discrediting the Russian army'. I take it that's objecting to the war. Maybe increase over time as soldiers go back home to Russia explaining the lies Putin has been telling the people.

 

Edit, or in a lot of cases not going home.

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3 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Cheering civilian casualties? Really? Where?

 

As you admit you show no intrest in another war where children are dying by American/British made missiles every day it may be best if you leave out the insulting people for what you wrongly perceive to be lack of empathy.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-46261983.amp

I am not bothered by people whose interest in Ukraine war doesn't extend to my level, or who react to it the way I react to the war in Yemen, which is a different type of conflict and much harder to understand from Europe than Ukraine (and of which I would hazard a guess I still probably know much more than you, Yemen that is).

 

I just don't understand this army of people who look at the war in Ukraine, see a relatively poor country invaded by the country 3.5 times its size and decide to activly cheer the invader. If you go on pro-Russia twitter, there is an army of often Western, Latin American, African posters cheering "the hurt" when Russia rockets hit the targets. I don't get it. Don't get this people.

 

And I don't mean you if this is what you think.

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19 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Anyway back on the subject of Ukraine it seems protests against the war may be becoming more common throughout Russia if reports are to be believed. Crowds at concerts chanting 'fuck the war' in St Petersburg and Moscow apparently.

Why are they protesting if Ukraine aren’t bad guys? 

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3 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I am not bothered by people whose interest in Ukraine war doesn't extend to my level, or who react to it the way I react to the war in Yemen, which is a different type of conflict and much harder to understand from Europe than Ukraine (and of which I would hazard a guess I still probably know much more than you, Yemen that is).

 

I just don't understand this army of people who look at the war in Ukraine, see a relatively poor country invaded by the country 3.5 times its size and decide to activly cheer the invader. If you go on pro-Russia twitter, there is an army of often Western, Latin American, African posters cheering "the hurt" when Russia rockets hit the targets. I don't get it. Don't get this people.

 

And I don't mean you if this is what you think.

Is it not just the people cheering the murder of innocent civilians that annoy you (I havnt seen it but I'll take your word) or also people and links that do not share the same opinion as you? 

 

 

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Listening to "The Korean War" by Max Hastings and was surprised to hear the following:

 

 

Quote

prominent left-winger Michael Foot, in the weekly Tribune. For Britain to decline to participate in United Nations action, he declared, would be an act of appeasement: ‘The aggression of the North Koreans was, and remains, an international crime of the first order.’

 

 

It's from an edition of "The Tribune", which he edited, written I assume in 1950, just after the North invaded in June. I can't find a copy of the actual editorial to see the context, so if anyone knows where I could find the text online I'd be interested in seeing his rationale.

 

 

 

 

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Just now, Gnasher said:

Is it not just the people cheering the murder of innocent civilians that annoy you (I havnt seen it but I'll take your word) or also people and links that do not share the same opinion as you?

I think I posted a list of accounts in the now abandoned alternative Ukraine thread, but it is really not that difficult to find them. 

 

I am not annoyed, I react to people's opinions on an Internet forum and try to argue with them. Or I block them if I realize that is pointless and they have an agenda. You seem to be annoyed when someone reacts to what you share by disagreeing with you / disagreeing with points in what you shared.   

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1 minute ago, SasaS said:

I think I posted a list of accounts in the now abandoned alternative Ukraine thread, but it is really not that difficult to find them. 

 

I am not annoyed, I react to people's opinions on an Internet forum and try to argue with them. Or I block them if I realize that is pointless and they have an agenda. You seem to be annoyed when someone reacts to what you share by disagreeing with you / disagreeing with points in what you shared.   

You didn't disagree with any of the points made though, you ignored them. Instead you made frivolous attacks on both me and the author.

 

Anyway its pointless going back and forth and question time is on so I will leave it there.

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3 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

You didn't disagree with any of the points made though, you ignored them. Instead you made frivolous attacks on both me and the author.

 

Anyway its pointless going back and forth and question time is on so I will leave it there.

I made a comment on the fact that we already had that shared, probably in early April when it came out, I may have commented on what he said then, and I vaguely remember trying to find out who the author was, because the credibility of his opinion was based on his supposed involvement with and deep knowledge of Nato.  

 

I agree it is pointless going back and forth on this. We can certainly take it to the Yemen thread and you can explain to me who is who and what is going on there and why.

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At the risk of upsetting the wannabe George Pattons on here, damming snippet (can't post whole article as behind a paywall) from Washington Post journo about life on the front line for Ukraine soldiers. I blame the messenger.

 

 

 

Meanwhile in a land far far away;

 

 

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5 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

I guess the Ukraine morale is waning because they are being killed by the invading forces.  There’s a simple way to end this, the invaders go home and morale will rise.  

That was an interesting aricle but there really is nothing special about this, nor it is some big revelation. morale goes up and down, when you are fighting against an enemy with superior fire power, you often have to make do.

 

Ukrainian morale still seems incredibly high considering how bloody this war is and all the problems they must be facing and compared to stuff that routinely happens in such conflicts.

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37 minutes ago, SasaS said:

That was an interesting aricle but there really is nothing special about this, nor it is some big revelation. morale goes up and down, when you are fighting against an enemy with superior fire power, you often have to make do.

 

Ukrainian morale still seems incredibly high considering how bloody this war is and all the problems they must be facing and compared to stuff that routinely happens in such conflicts.

 

20 hours ago, SasaS said:

I made a comment on the fact that we already had that shared, probably in early April when it came out, I may have commented on what he said then, and I vaguely remember trying to find out who the author was, because the credibility of his opinion was based on his supposed involvement with and deep knowledge of Nato.  

 

I agree it is pointless going back and forth on this. We can certainly take it to the Yemen thread and you can explain to me who is who and what is going on there and why.

Er you've sort of missed my point. I wasn't debating the geo politics of an African war torn country. I was highlighting potential hypocrisy over the  pointing of fingers at posters over lack of empathy whilst showing little over those killed in wars like Yemen, but hey hoy.

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51 minutes ago, SasaS said:

That was an interesting aricle but there really is nothing special about this, nor it is some big revelation. morale goes up and down, when you are fighting against an enemy with superior fire power, you often have to make do.

 

Ukrainian morale still seems incredibly high considering how bloody this war is and all the problems they must be facing and compared to stuff that routinely happens in such conflicts.

If reports are true the Ukrainian Parliament tried to impose the death penalty on those who go Awol, it does not convey much confidence in your claim.

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9 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

Er you've sort of missed my point. I wasn't debating the geo politics of an African war torn country. I was highlighting potential hypocrisy over the  pointing of fingers at posters over lack of empathy whilst showing little over those killed in wars like Yemen, but hey hoy.

I think you missed my point, I was talking about people who actively support / cheer Russia in this conflict, people I don't understand - if you don't have a stake, how can you be so devoid of basic empathy and not root for the victim.

 

Same people don't actively post in support of Houthis or the Saudi-backed government troops in Yemen. I asked you to continue debating it somewhere else because you climbed on the moral high ground with the children being killed in, as you say, "African war-torn country" because I strongly suspect that you don't know the first thing about Yemen, which also renders your assumed moral high ground insultingly hypocritical.

 

4 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

If reports are true the Ukrainian Parliament tried to impose the death penalty on those who go Awol, it does not convey much confidence in your claim.

 

I've seen reports / accusations SBU tried to push for commanders being allowed to shoot soldiers disobeying orders, which probably needs more context, as in denials, confirmation etc.

 

Their morale seems pretty high to me, from what I know how people react in a war. I know some  hope they would stop fighting so the gas price can go down a bit, but it doesn't look like it's happening any time soon. Just give them what they need to defend their country sooner rather than later so they can end this war.

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1 hour ago, SasaS said:

I think you missed my point, I was talking about people who actively support / cheer Russia in this conflict, people I don't understand - if you don't have a stake, how can you be so devoid of basic empathy and not root for the victim.

 

Same people don't actively post in support of Houthis or the Saudi-backed government troops in Yemen. I asked you to continue debating it somewhere else because you climbed on the moral high ground with the children being killed in, as you say, "African war-torn country" because I strongly suspect that you don't know the first thing about Yemen, which also renders your assumed moral high ground insultingly hypocritical.

 

 

I've seen reports / accusations SBU tried to push for commanders being allowed to shoot soldiers disobeying orders, which probably needs more context, as in denials, confirmation etc.

 

Their morale seems pretty high to me, from what I know how people react in a war. I know some  hope they would stop fighting so the gas price can go down a bit, but it doesn't look like it's happening any time soon. Just give them what they need to defend their country sooner rather than later so they can end this war.

 

Your last sentence sounds good but do you really believe it's attainable in reality? Ukraine have had huge financial and military assistance from the UK, Europe and the US, how much more monetary aid and what sort of timeframe are we talking to push the Russians back into their own country?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

Your last sentence sounds good but do you really believe it's attainable in reality? Ukraine have had huge financial and military assistance from the UK, Europe and the US, how much more monetary aid and what sort of timeframe are we talking to push the Russians back into their own country?

 

 

 

They have barely received any serious financial aid so far and after relatively big early quantities of MANPADS and antitank weapons, they have started receiving first serious heavy weapons about maybe a month ago, including training.

 

So, rather then wasting time, they should receive much more and much faster, because they will be receiving it eventually anyway. What is the point of assisting Ukraine if you are going to support them, but, like, not too much? Why? This only prolongs the war. Because they would make Russia angry? Any defeat would make them very angry anyway. What are they going to do they are not doing already, except the nukes, which they dare not use. They are not exercising any restraint, they are already throwing everything they have at Ukraine.

 

So send them more drones, more artillery, better, rocket assisted and laser guided long range shells, anti-ship missiles, mid and long range multiple rocket launchers, all of the available planes and helicopters and S-300 they know how to operate, all of the equipment former Eastern block countries no longer need (MRLC, tanks etc). Then when it is clear they are pushing Russians out for good, when they are doing to Russians all over the country what Russians are at the moment doing to them in east Donbas, offer Russia a route to avoid humiliating defeat and pressure Ukrainians to accept something they can leave with, or they will not be getting aid to rebuild the country.

 

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Tom Cooper updated.

 

Situation somewhat stabilizing in the east Donbas. Thinks fewer US howitzer delivered than is publicly claimed. Wants to slap the German Chancellor out of his midlife crisis manifesting in a belated hippie phase. UKR offensive in Kherson area too predictable.

 

https://medium.com/@x_TomCooper_x/ukraine-war-26-29-may-2022-1c2855e4f179

 

 

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On 26/05/2022 at 03:32, Bjornebye said:

WTF

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm assuming the Israeli government has decided not to allow their weapons technology be provided to Ukraine based on the possibility that the Azov battalion is a neo-Nazi group? 

 

That would be political suicide in the Knesset as the public would demand the government be ousted immediately.

 

EDIT - I'm sure there will be another "explanation" which will be a bit more diplomatic in its reasoning which won't be offensive to either side but I'm guessing a Jewish state potentially has issues providing neo-Nazis with weapons.

 

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23 minutes ago, Reds4Life said:

 

I'm assuming the Israeli government has decided not to allow their weapons technology be provided to Ukraine based on the possibility that the Azov battalion is a neo-Nazi group? 

 

That would be political suicide in the Knesset as the public would demand the government be ousted immediately.

 

EDIT - I'm sure there will be another "explanation" which will be a bit more diplomatic in its reasoning which won't be offensive to either side but I'm guessing a Jewish state potentially has issues providing neo-Nazis with weapons.

 

It would explain why they have been harbouring Russian oligarchs I suppose. 

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1 hour ago, Reds4Life said:

 

I'm assuming the Israeli government has decided not to allow their weapons technology be provided to Ukraine based on the possibility that the Azov battalion is a neo-Nazi group? 

 

That would be political suicide in the Knesset as the public would demand the government be ousted immediately.

 

EDIT - I'm sure there will be another "explanation" which will be a bit more diplomatic in its reasoning which won't be offensive to either side but I'm guessing a Jewish state potentially has issues providing neo-Nazis with weapons.

 

You are assuming wrong.

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