Russia v Ukraine

[Numero Veinticinco]

12 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

It's just so, so sad that nukes exist.

You're lucky they do, pal, or we'd all be speaking American. 

[Section_31]

1 minute ago, Gnasher said:

 

If the county's people are willing to resist things can become very sticky very quickly, look at the circus that engulfed American, British soldiers because of a load of farmers in our pullout of Afghanistan. You're right the west would batter Russia on neutral ground, an invasion might prove troublesome though.

We decapitate, then we do business with whatever's left.

[dockers_strike]

11 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

If the county's people are willing to resist things can become very sticky very quickly, look at the circus that engulfed American, British soldiers because of a load of farmers in our pullout of Afghanistan. You're right the west would batter Russia on neutral ground, an invasion might prove troublesome though.

I dont know why you refer to the fighters in Afghanistan as a 'load of farmers.' Is it because you think Afghan's peoples attire makes them look like farmers?

 

They were trained fighters ie soldiers for want of a better word, who were battle hardened after 10 years fighting the Russians. They had very effective weapons and tactics. Yes, there may well have been a sizable rabble within their midst but even then, calling them 'farmers' is just a lie being peddled. Isnt it?

[Gnasher]

7 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

I dont know why you refer to the fighters in Afghanistan as a 'load of farmers.' Is it because you think Afghan's peoples attire makes them look like farmers?

 

They were trained fighters ie soldiers for want of a better word, who were battle hardened after 10 years fighting the Russians. They had very effective weapons and tactics. Yes, there may well have been a sizable rabble within their midst but even then, calling them 'farmers' is just a lie being peddled. Isnt it?

Farmers/country boys..here's the head of the British army,

 

https://www.news18.com/news/world/country-boys-with-code-of-honour-uk-army-chief-says-taliban-could-be-different-this-time-must-wait-see-4101965.html

 

Not a slur by Carter, he's telling the truth, lots of Afghanistan is rural farmland and a lot of Taliban fighters are from them areas, especially Helmand.

[SasaS]

12 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

I dont know why you refer to the fighters in Afghanistan as a 'load of farmers.' Is it because you think Afghan's peoples attire makes them look like farmers?

 

They were trained fighters ie soldiers for want of a better word, who were battle hardened after 10 years fighting the Russians. They had very effective weapons and tactics. Yes, there may well have been a sizable rabble within their midst but even then, calling them 'farmers' is just a lie being peddled. Isnt it?

They must have been quite old too.

[dockers_strike]

8 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Farmers/country boys..here's the head of the British army,

 

https://www.news18.com/news/world/country-boys-with-code-of-honour-uk-army-chief-says-taliban-could-be-different-this-time-must-wait-see-4101965.html

 

Not a slur by Carter, he's telling the truth, lots of Afghanistan is rural farmland and a lot of Taliban fighters are from them areas, especially Helmand.

But he doesnt call them 'farmers' as you did, yes?

[Gnasher]

1 minute ago, dockers_strike said:

But he doesnt call them 'farmers' as you did, yes?

OK dockers, non of the Taliban were farmers, they were just country boys who had a strange aversion to farming.

[dockers_strike]

3 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

OK dockers, non of the Taliban were farmers, they were just country boys who had a strange aversion to farming.

Haha, closest we'll get to agreeing I reckon!

[Rico1304]

clown

[Numero Veinticinco]

Stormy seas brought it down. That’s be more embarrassing than Ukrainian missiles. 

[Gnasher]

4 hours ago, SasaS said:

Russians are saying they put the fire out. They don't say how, but I don't think they mean by going under.

Sunk whilst being towed to Sebastable for repairs  according to Russian state media, saying because of fuel explosion to try saving face? That's been well and truly zapped. 

[dockers_strike]

Confirmed sunk! That's an impressive hit by the Ukrainians, over 11,000 tons sent to the bottom of the Black Sea.

 

Russia has said the flagship of its Black Sea fleet has sunk after Ukraine claimed to have struck the vessel with missiles, Russia's defence ministry said late Thursday. 

The Kremlin said the boat was set on fire by an explosion of ammunition and sunk as it was being towed back to port. The cause of the fire, it said, was being investigated.

"While being towed ... towards the destined port, the vessel lost its balance due to damage sustained in the hull as fire broke out after ammunition exploded. Given the choppy seas, the vessel sank," the state news agency TASS quoted the ministry as saying.

The terse announcement came after Maksym Marchenko, the governor of Ukraine’s Odessa region, announced on Telegram that the ship had been hit by two Neptune anti-ship missiles and had “gone exactly where it was told to.”

This is a breaking news story, follow for more. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/04/14/russias-black-sea-flagship-moskva-has-sunk/

[Gnasher]

"Sunk in a storm" aye pull the other one,

 

 

[Rico1304]

12 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Confirmed sunk! That's an impressive hit by the Ukrainians, over 11,000 tons sent to the bottom of the Black Sea.

 

Russia has said the flagship of its Black Sea fleet has sunk after Ukraine claimed to have struck the vessel with missiles, Russia's defence ministry said late Thursday. 

The Kremlin said the boat was set on fire by an explosion of ammunition and sunk as it was being towed back to port. The cause of the fire, it said, was being investigated.

"While being towed ... towards the destined port, the vessel lost its balance due to damage sustained in the hull as fire broke out after ammunition exploded. Given the choppy seas, the vessel sank," the state news agency TASS quoted the ministry as saying.

The terse announcement came after Maksym Marchenko, the governor of Ukraine’s Odessa region, announced on Telegram that the ship had been hit by two Neptune anti-ship missiles and had “gone exactly where it was told to.”

This is a breaking news story, follow for more. 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/04/14/russias-black-sea-flagship-moskva-has-sunk/

Clown

[Guest]

The ship wasn't sunk by a missile attack, it has been the subject of a special maritime operation.

[dockers_strike]

9 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

"Sunk in a storm" aye pull the other one,

 

 

I should imagine 2 exocet type sea skimming missiles would make a fucking big explosion and damage the ship extensively, even one as big as this one.

 

One exocet did for Sheffield, a ship half the size of this cruiser. She stayed afloat but sank under tow in heavy seas.

[Leyton388]

Good. 

[Rico1304]

23 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

I should imagine 2 exocet type sea skimming missiles would make a fucking big explosion and damage the ship extensively, even one as big as this one.

 

One exocet did for Sheffield, a ship half the size of this cruiser. She stayed afloat but sank under tow in heavy seas.

Really? You think missiles would cause an explosion? And that 2 would be huge? 

[TheHowieLama]

20 minutes ago, Leyton388 said:

Good. 

Shout out to the MSM.

[Gnasher]

This is the problem now, Putins a vengeful cunt,

 

 

 

 

[dockers_strike]

3 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

This is the problem now, Putins a vengeful cunt,

 

 

Yes, he's going to go batshit crazy over this sinking, isnt he? One wonders if his (remaining) Generals will get tired of being the sacrificial lambs and decide he's going to be the one taken out not them.

 

Hopefully, most if not all the crew of the Moscow managed to get off before the ship went down.

[SasaS]

Can we have some rockets in Mariupol too, please.  

[polymerpunkah]

On the plus side, the fire onboard is now out.

[Em City]

 

[dockers_strike]

After the sinking, my view on it.

 

This is a significant loss for Russia despite their propoganda of what may have caused this.

 

This is a capital ship. The Moscow wasnt just heavily armed, it was the control of air attack for that region. Not many navies now operate 'cruisers,' I think only Russia and the US continue to do so. Their operations have largely been taken over by destroyers or frigates.

 

That in itself is interesting since now, the Royal Navy's Type 45 Destroyers are, by weight, virtually 'light cruisers.' In the USN where their frigates tend to be larger than their destroyers, they fulfill that role.

 

The Moscow displaced about 11,600 long tons making this the biggest naval vessel sunk since WW2. The General Belgrano, sunk by 2 torpedoes from HMS Conquerer in 1982, was some 10,000 long tons.

 

By all accounts, the weather was choppy when news of this incident broke. That in itself shouldnt make it impossible for radar to detect sea skimming objects on a heaving ship. That's one reason why radars are generally mounted on the highest point of the vessel.

 

However, 'old' radar and firing systems can be overwhelmed by multiple targets where the radar and firing system isnt designed for the task.

 

The Artesian radar fitted to many RN ship can allegedly monitor over 100 separate objects. But, the Moscow's radar systems are likely old from its last refit early 2000s and not a match for anything the USN and RN has.

 

Russia claims a fire broke out and set off many internal explosions. This is probably true if the ship was hit by one or two exocet type anti ship missiles. These missiles are designed to hit ships just above the waterline and not the superstructure.

 

As mentioned before, one exocet took out Sheffield even though the missile's warhead didnt explode. The resultant fire from the missile's fuel caused immense damage and loss of life. It didnt sink her but like the Moscow under tow in heavy seas with a massive hole midships, she sunk.

 

So why didnt Moscow's radar detect the alleged missiles and open fire? A possible reason is the radar and firing systems became overloaded with other targets ie drones. Or, the radar prioritised closer targets such as drones rather than the further out missiles. Or, the officer of the watch simply wasnt paying attention and not attentive.

 

One of the procedures to try and avoid these sea skimming missiles if detected was to turn the ship either bow or stern on to minimise the radar profile lock the missile can achieve. That's a brave old tactic especially as many ships now have Close in Weapons Systems mounted midships and they need line of sight to engage.

 

RN ships are now fitted with Phalanx CIWS something they didnt have in 1982. These are basically heavy calibre gatlin type guns that spit out hundreds of rounds a minute, throwing a wall of lead into the path of any incoming missile. The objective being to hit and explode the warhead before it gets to the ship.

 

It's possible the Moscow was trying to get its CIWS to bear on the targets but in doing so, presented a 'beam on' target for the missiles own radar to acquire?

 

Once hit, was the ship doomed? The seriousness of the damage should not be underestimated since the Russians themselves say most of the ship's company was taken off well in advance of them admitting the ship had sunk.

 

Ships have watertight compartments to try and prevent flooding in such incidents but, add in further explosions and fire, it seems hard to think the ship would make it back to its home port in heavy seas.

 

It's unlikely a heavily armed ship such as this would just have a fire break out and the fire cause extensive explosions such as to require ship's company to be taken off.

 

The Russians say the ship 'lost her balance.' Whether that's lost in translation or not, I dont know. But heavy seas, at least one hole maybe two on the waterline and she'll be taking on water faster than you could pump it out. Basically, she heeled over and sank to the bottom of the Black Sea.

 

Either way, this is a major blow to Russia and her navy and a major coup for Ukraine. I dont think any Russian ship will get too close to the Ukrainian coast any time soon.