Russia v Ukraine

[Ne Moe Imya]

5 hours ago, Arniepie said:

Without excusing the invasion   I think it's a fair question to ask what americas response would be if Russia stuck a load of bases on the Mexican border.

I think it's fair to say that if, in this completely hypothetical situation, America responded by declaring war on Mexico and bombing a bunch of children's hospitals in Juarez and Michoacan, we'd probably be fairly upset about it, no?

[SasaS]

3 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

If you searched 2014 in this thread RP would have at least 50 posts, prolly more.

It still hurts man. It still hurts.

[Pureblood]

18 minutes ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

I think it's fair to say that if, in this completely hypothetical situation, America responded by declaring war on Mexico and bombing a bunch of children's hospitals in Juarez and Michoacan, we'd probably be fairly upset about it, no?

No doubt the global response would be similar.  American tennis players would be banned from playing at Wimbledon and Tex-Mex cuisine would simply be referred to as "Mex".  All of that would definitely happen.  

[Red Shift]

1 hour ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

You keep asking questions that aren't very clear to me. I'm concerned about Nazis, neo-Nazis, fascists. I started looking into this more recently and I get the feeling that western involvement with all of them that I've seen so far is just the tip of the iceberg. I find it unsettling.

 

We have a problem with fascism now and in our history (like many other countries do, not just the west) and we don't seem to want to face it. Maybe that's because our dear leaders would much rather align with some fascism here and there than some democracy breaking out and putting their greed and control at risk.

 

The bigger problem is that the fascism itself always risks getting out of control.

We’ve had a problem with Fascism/Nazis since the rise of Hitler. The end of the Third Reich was supposed to be the end of Fascism, but it wasn’t.

Bandera and Stetsko settled in West Germany, where they attracted the attention of former Nazis in the employ of the German defence and security agencies in the late 1940s and early 1950s.

 

Nazi criminals came to hold responsible positions in the government agencies of democratic West Germany.

 

Reinhard Gehlen, a general in Hitler’s army, founder of the West German Federal Intelligence Service (BND), and a partner of the CIA, after the war. The Americans also recruited Nazi army officer Adolf Heusinger, who became Chairman of the NATO Military Committee after the war.

 

The Fascism in Ukraine is generational. It goes back 80 yrs.

 

 

[DJLJ]

33 minutes ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

I think it's fair to say that if, in this completely hypothetical situation, America responded by declaring war on Mexico and bombing a bunch of children's hospitals in Juarez and Michoacan, we'd probably be fairly upset about it, no?

Yes but that doesn't matter because someone has dived into a rabbit hole and decided that the Azov battalion is much worse than flattening a country. They are total morons, best left to their rabbit holes, which they have shown plenty of during their times on here. There seems to be more and more of them on here, who seems it is ok to say, yes I know it is bad that something has happened, but look at that small thing over here, surely that is so much worse.

No it isn't. You are a moron for even thinking it is. Now fuck off into your stupid little holes again. 

Don't entertain them, engaging them is futile, because they are too stupid and too fucked up on whatever it is they are on, to even have a coherent argument on anything. 

Oh and if you challenge them on anything, they flounce off until they get their medication. and then come and cry about how bad everyone is because they don't believe their fucking bullshit.

[Red Phoenix]

3 hours ago, Red Shift said:

We’ve had a problem with Fascism/Nazis since the rise of Hitler. The end of the Third Reich was supposed to be the end of Fascism, but it wasn’t.

Bandera and Stetsko settled in West Germany, where they attracted the attention of former Nazis in the employ of the German defence and security agencies in the late 1940s and early 1950s.

 

Nazi criminals came to hold responsible positions in the government agencies of democratic West Germany.

 

Reinhard Gehlen, a general in Hitler’s army, founder of the West German Federal Intelligence Service (BND), and a partner of the CIA, after the war. The Americans also recruited Nazi army officer Adolf Heusinger, who became Chairman of the NATO Military Committee after the war.

 

The Fascism in Ukraine is generational. It goes back 80 yrs.

 

Yeah I remember posting about NATO and Nazis earlier but will leave going on about it more because as we know, if you're not posting purely about how bad Russia are you're a nutcase, Putin apologist, Russian bot, and don't care about people being killed by Russian military.

 

It's fine for anyone to say Azov Nazis are just Russian propaganda but if you disagree and voice concern we eventually end up back here again.

[Red Phoenix]

From Guardian :

Quote

Russia is only 'pretending to negotiate', French FM says

Russia is only “pretending to negotiate” with Ukraine and is engaging in a “dramatic process of long-lasting brutality”, France’s foreign minister has said.

“There is only one emergency: the cease-fire, the cease-fire, the cease-fire. ... It is only on this basis that you can negotiate, because you don’t negotiate with a gun on your head,” Jean-Yves Le Drian told French newspaper Le Parisien in an interview on Wednesday.

Le Drian added that France would consider Russia responsible for any use of chemical or bacteriological weapons in the war in Ukraine.

"If chemical or bacteriological attacks took place in Ukraine, we’d know who would be solely responsible for them. It would be Russia."

 

Russia is only 'pretending to negotiate', French FM says

 

This is the state we're now in. If there's a chemical weapons attack, it's automatically Russia. We saw this in Syria too of course. It was automatically Assad. Same playbook. Leaders would denounce Assad's crimes before anyone had even gone in to investigate.

 

And if there was a problem with that you were an Assad apologist.

 

Never mind the possibillity that if you keep talking about chemical weapon attacks and there's a bunch of idiots anywhere that want to see this situation become even worse, they have all of the incentive to do something because it will automatically be blamed on Russia.

 

And of course as has to be said : of course Russia could carry out an attack. The point is that either side could do it. But that doesn't matter, fuck facts.

[Section_31]

Naizsm isn't fascism, fascism espoused the superiority of the state over the individual, Naizsm preaches the superiority of the race over the state.

 

Leader 

Race 

State 

Individual

 

Being white isn't a race either, plenty of Poles and Czechs in Auschwitz.

[Rocky Sullivan]

Another thread derailed.

[Bjornebye]

4 minutes ago, Rocky Sullivan said:

Another thread derailed.

Do you like party rings? 

[Gnasher]

18 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Naizsm isn't fascism, fascism espoused the superiority of the state over the individual, Naizsm preaches the superiority of the race over the state.

 

Leader 

Race 

State 

Individual

 

Being white isn't a race either, plenty of Poles and Czechs in Auschwitz.

Are you suggesting Ukraine hasn't got/had both? Ukraine has got/had a problem with its far right, I find it strange why people would try to deny it.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-problem-vladimir-putin-s-denazification-claim-war-ncna1290946

 

https://theintercept.com/2022/02/24/ukraine-facebook-azov-battalion-russia/

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/1/who-are-the-azov-regiment

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/03/14/neo-nazi-ukraine-war/

 

[Bjornebye]

12 hours ago, Red Shift said:

 but yes I have Telegram, but haven’t used it for ages - I was in a Crypto group.

 

 

No shit 

[Red Phoenix]

Yes, let's give people shit that use telegram, that'll work well. Here's two channels I found in a minute or two, there's almost 1.5mil Ukrainians using these accounts.

 

https://t.me/s/ukrainenow

 

https://t.me/s/itarmyofukraine2022

 

Quote

With nearly 500,000 members before Russia’s invasion, UkraineNOW was already one of the country’s biggest Telegram channels. Now a million people depend on it for updates about the war. Its posts, which are shared by other channels, get around 8 million views a day. On February 26, UkraineNOW posted 139 times and forwarded another 54 messages from other Telegram accounts; before the invasion it posted three to five times per day. Its evolution and continued growth provides a glimpse of how the social media app has helped keep citizens up to date on Russia’s invasion with verified information during a time when platforms have struggled to handle a flood of misinformation and disinformation.

“From bomb shelters, on the road, in different parts of the country, day and night we are working to ensure that Ukraine and the world receive truthful information and fight Russian propaganda,” one Ukrainian team member involved in the channel’s operation tells WIRED. They say the channel was quickly “transformed into a powerful information ecosystem” to keep people informed.

 

When War Struck, Ukraine Turned to Telegram

[Gnasher]

The right wing are in Ukraine, no point denying it, I'm just don't see why this was of concern to Putin. It certainly wasn't worthy of an invasion.

 

https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/americas/brazilian-neo-nazis-recruited-to-fight-in-ukraine-1.5485098

 

 

 

[Section_31]

41 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Are you suggesting Ukraine hasn't got/had both? Ukraine has got/had a problem with its far right, I find it strange why people would try to deny it.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/ukraine-has-nazi-problem-vladimir-putin-s-denazification-claim-war-ncna1290946

 

https://theintercept.com/2022/02/24/ukraine-facebook-azov-battalion-russia/

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/1/who-are-the-azov-regiment

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/03/14/neo-nazi-ukraine-war/

 

No. But so has everywhere, especially Russia. The idea of Russia wanting to denazify somewhere is like Dawn French pulling you up about your weight.  

[Gnasher]

15 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

No. But so has everywhere, especially Russia. The idea of Russia wanting to denazify somewhere is like Dawn French pulling you up about your weight.  

Yeah the Russians got plenty of their own but Ukraine has got battalions of the far right in their army, history of collaboration with nazi Germany and statues/monuments of extreme right wing leaders, especially in the west of the country. 

 

Putins just used it as an excuse and it's a feeble one.

 

[Gnasher]

 

[Section_31]

John Sweeney reckons Russian troops have been fed dog food repackaged as 'prime nutritious beef' due to army suppliers skimming off the top. 

[DalyanPete]

15 hours ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Haha. That made me chuckle. Disgustingly funny.

It's very true though, my favourite shit of the year. 

[Section_31]

Fourth Russian general capped.

[cochyn]

39 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

Wood.

[SasaS]

As a short intermission in the discussion of the Nazi threat in our lives, here's Tom with a report on the progress of de-Nazification operation.

 

"Good morning everybody!

Here’s my review for the last 24 hours, 16 Mar 22

 

CAA - Combined Arms Army (Russia)

BTG - Battalion Tactical Group (Russia)

GMRD - Guards Motor Rifle Division (Russia)

GTA - Guards Tank Army (Russia)

GTD - Guards Tank Division (Russia)

IFV - infantry fighting vehicle

LOC - Line of Control (old frontline between Ukraine and Separatists in the Donbass region)

MANPAD – man-protable air defence system

MBT - main battle tank

MRB - Motorized Rifle Brigade

MRD - Motorized Rifle Division

PGM – precision guided munition

RFA – Russian Federation Army/Russian Armed Forces

RF-9xxxx - Russian military aviation registration

SAM – surface-to-air missile

UAF – Ukrainian armed Forces

UCAV – unmanned combat aerial vehicle

VDV - Vozdushno-desantnye voyska (Russian Airborne forces)

VKS - Vozdushno-kosmicheskiye sily (Air-Space Force, Russia)

West OSK – Western Military District, RFA

 

STRATEGIC

The Russians have de-facto stopped all their offensive operations yesterday. The RUMINT has it, they’ve lost up to 40% of troops involved in the invasion by now (mind: this is including killed, wounded, missing/prisoner of war etc.), and are thus busy bringing in additional units from the Far East, Armenia, and Tajikistan, and drafting even cadets from military higher education to replace their losses. Not sure if their losses are really 40%, but gauging by ‘disappearance’ of numerous units from the frontlines, I would say about 20 battered BTGs were withdrawn from the line to be reorganised and reconstituted.

The Ukrainian GenStab is reporting that the West OSK refused to deploy the 5th Combined Arms Army (not involved yet) to Kyiv, supposedly ‘due to heavy losses in the south’. Not yet sure what to think of this, but if so, then the 58th CAA is in far more serious trouble than thought – and that would explain the withdrawal of its elements from Voznesensk and Kryvyi Rihh, and the rushed redeployment of its elements from Armenia, just for example, and the ‘non-appearance’ of the much-expected amphibious landing in the Odessa area.

BTW, following a law suit filled by Ukraine against Russia, the UN International Court of Justice in Den Haag (including 15 judges, between them one each from Russia and China) has ordered Russia to end hostilities in Ukraine (vote was 13:2), and to ensure that any military units controlled or maintained by it, as well as any organisations or individuals indirectly controlled by it, do not take further actions. Furthermore, while explaining that the court had no evidence that Ukraine was committing genocide on Russians on its territory, the court announced that it has jurisdiction to investigate whether genocide is taking place in Ukraine – by Russia and on Ukrainians.

Don't worry: this decision is going to be completely ignored by Putin, but also by the mass of Western governments...

 

AIR

This 16 Mar was another bad day for the VKS. Except for confirmation for a loss of 6-7 helicopters destroyed in the Ukrainian artillery barrage of the Kherson Airport, a day before, there followed a confirmation for a number of earlier losses (like burial of a Lieutenant-Colonel shot down while flying a Su-25 on 7 March, or photos the wreckage of a Su-34 shot down on 5 March near Chernihiv). Atop of this, the Ukrainians have claimed two Su-30SMs as shot down near Odessa, and the Ka-52 76R/RF-13411 was confirmed shot down over unknown area.

Part of the reason is the latest shipment of SAMs donated by the USA: delivered already few days ago, this should have contained 9K33 Osa/SA-8, S-300/SA-10, and S-300V/SA-12s (apparently acquired from Egypt in exchange for a sale of Boeing F-15E fighter-bombers), plus another load of MANPADS, including Soviet/Russian-made 98K34 Strela-3/SA-14s.

Net result: I’m not surprised one can now see VKS Ka-52 and Mi-28-pilots acting as visible on this video (https://twitter.com/Blue_Sauron/status/1504209795926089730): I.e. approaching enemy positions at high speed only to shoot their unguided rockets ‘ballistically’, to extend their range, before turning sharply away and releasing flares. Free along the motto: ‘spray and pray’…

…and thus the Russians spent the day shelling infrastructure and housing in multiple cities, ‘instead’. Except for Kyiv, Chernihiv, and Kharkiv, hit were also Vinnitsa and Zaporozhye. By now, at least 72 schools and 21 hospitals have been targeted by the Russians (in addition to about 3,500 infrastructure facilities, 2,700 residential buildings, 28 churches, etc., etc., etc.)

That said, the worst of all happened in Mariupol: after the 150th MRD was mauled while attacking from the east, on 15 Mar, yesterday it was the turn on the 810th Naval Infantry Brigade, reinforced by T-64s of the Separatists to get ambushed. The latter have reached the Freedom Square, in western central Mariupol, but by then the Marines fell behind and thus the lonesome tanks were cut to pieces.

As a ‘retaliation’ for these – and earlier – losses, the Russians not only seized the Mariupol Regional Intensive Care Hospital, where they are holding its patients as hostages, but yesterday the VKS bombed out the Drama Theater, where hundreds of civilians were sheltering (see attached photo, where one can clearly read words ‘Dety’ – ‘children’ – written on the tarmac in front and behind the building….), and then the Neptune swimming pool, where further hundreds were taking refugee. The number of victims in both cases remains unknown.

Note for the end: after three weeks of day-by-day reporting, and until the situation changes, I’ll now slow down the pace of my reporting to ‘every second day’.

[Pureblood]

I don't believe a word Tom says.  There, I've said it. 

[SasaS]

I don't believe that Russian forces are that depleted, if it were true, I would expect a massive UKR counteroffensive to try to improve their tactical situation, pressure Russian negotiators and try to start the domino effect of total Russian collapse. He does say it is rumours.

 

The rest, for what it's worth, is a compilation of what OSINT and others are saying.

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I don't believe that Russian forces are that depleted, if it were true, I would expect a massive UKR counteroffensive to try to improve their tactical situation, pressure Russian negotiators and try to start the domino effect of total Russian collapse. He does say it is rumours.

 

The rest, for what it's worth, is a compilation of what OSINT and others are saying.

I believe they are, although like Tom I don't believe they have been depleted by 20-40%.