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Ibrahima Konate


Sugar Ape
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1 minute ago, Manny said:

We're obviously signing this kid (to replace Matip maybe) and Kabak, as we've got a clear CB structure at the club:

 

Konate becomes Matip, the brilliant-when-fit-but-made-of-crisps option.

 

Kabak becomes Lovren, the good-on-his-day-but-fuck-me-he-can't-half-fuck-up-sometimes option.

What becomes of Matip?

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41 minutes ago, Jose Jones said:

Maybe we’re thinking we’ll send Keita back the other way? 

maybe. but that doesn't sound much like what Ornstien is saying that we will need to activate his release clause. 

24 minutes ago, Scott_M said:


In the last few seasons, where have we seen that? 

in terms of release clauses or players in their last year (or free), so a desperate seller (a thing i have mentioned before on here)

 

Ben Davies

Thiago

Minamino

Lonergan

Adrian

Elliot

Shaqiri

keita

Chamberlain

Solanke

 

So that's 10 of our last 18 permanent signings - since the summer of 2017. And another 2 we signed from Roma when their backs were against the wall for FFP and had to sell. So I would actually say 12 of our last 18 have required very little negotiation. 

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4 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

maybe. but that doesn't sound much like what Ornstien is saying that we will need to activate his release clause. 

in terms of release clauses or players in their last year (or free), so a desperate seller (a thing i have mentioned before on here)

 

Ben Davies

Thiago

Minamino

Lonergan

Adrian

Elliot

Shaqiri

keita

Chamberlain

Solanke

 

So that's 10 of our last 18 permanent signings - since the summer of 2017. And another 2 we signed from Roma when their backs were against the wall for FFP and had to sell. So I would actually say 12 of our last 18 have required very little negotiation. 

Bazzie - even in your FSG fever induced insomnia you must realize that negotiations with the selling club are usually not a sticking point. The vast majority of the time it is either a flat no or meet a release clause for every transfer.

You think all those above chose LFC because they did not have any other options?

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3 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Bazzie - even in your FSG fever induced insomnia you must realize that negotiations with the selling club are usually not a sticking point. The vast majority of the time it is either a flat no or meet a release clause for every transfer.

You think all those above chose LFC because they did not have any other options?

I genuinely don't know what you are saying? All I say is our starting point for a player is taking out as much negotiating as possible. i think it means you reduce the size of pool you are looking at for new players. if this konate story is true, i would like to bet my fucking life he wouldn't be anywhere near our list if he didn't have a release clause. Out of that list of 10 players I posted, I would say only Keita we would have bee interested in if it was not for their market position.

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4 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I genuinely don't know what you are saying? All I say is our starting point for a player is taking out as much negotiating as possible. i think it means you reduce the size of pool you are looking at for new players. if this konate story is true, i would like to bet my fucking life he wouldn't be anywhere near our list if he didn't have a release clause. Out of that list of 10 players I posted, I would say only Keita we would have bee interested in if it was not for their market position.

You think a 6' 4" lightning fast CB would not be on our radar?

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6 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I genuinely don't know what you are saying? All I say is our starting point for a player is taking out as much negotiating as possible. i think it means you reduce the size of pool you are looking at for new players. if this konate story is true, i would like to bet my fucking life he wouldn't be anywhere near our list if he didn't have a release clause. Out of that list of 10 players I posted, I would say only Keita we would have bee interested in if it was not for their market position.

Isn't that the kind of stuff you have to do to compete against petrodollars?

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It would be easier to suggest insider trading via Roma (Salah, Alisson) or Soton (their best players every season for years).

To post a list that includes a few third string goalkeepers and one of the most highly rated youth players in the league seems daft. To forget Tsimakas is even worse.

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42 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

maybe. but that doesn't sound much like what Ornstien is saying that we will need to activate his release clause. 

in terms of release clauses or players in their last year (or free), so a desperate seller (a thing i have mentioned before on here)

 

Ben Davies

Thiago

Minamino

Lonergan

Adrian

Elliot

Shaqiri

keita

Chamberlain

Solanke

 

So that's 10 of our last 18 permanent signings - since the summer of 2017. And another 2 we signed from Roma when their backs were against the wall for FFP and had to sell. So I would actually say 12 of our last 18 have required very little negotiation. 

 

Alternative versions of this is...

 

Thiago - Agreed a payment structure with Bayern with minimal up front costs.

Jota - Agreed a payment structure with Wolves with minimal up front costs.

Keita - Negotiated a deal a season ahead of us signing him based on RBL's performances, which meant we got him cheaper.

Elliot / Solanke - We wouldn't pay what Fulham & Chelsea wanted, hence the Tribunal, which we've saved money on.

 

The others I don't really care about.

 

On the flip side...

 

Solanke - We got £25m back for, I'm sure that wouldn't have been Bournemouths opening offer. Similar story with Brewster, Ings, Danny Ward, Kevin Stewart etc.

Werner - We wouldn't / couldn't pay the whole fee upfront so moved on.

Lewis - We wouldn't pay what Norwich wanted so moved on.

Kabak - We were quoted £30m in the summer, we've now got him on loan and for £18m in the summer, if we want.

 

Rightly or wrongly, our transfer is policy is to find under valued players and maximise their value on the pitch. It's obviously worked well in the last few years. Only maybe VVD & Alisson we've paid above the odds on (both were world records at the time), although I think we'd all agree they've both more than proved to be value for money.

 

I could go on, but I won't. I think my point is made.

 

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1 hour ago, Daisy said:

We did not pull out of Fekir because of his knee. Alisson became available and it was one or the other 

Wow. This is genuinely the first I have heard of Alisson being signed only because we pulled out of the Fekir deal. And since it is contrary to all the reliable reports I had read about the Fekir deal, I can reliably inform you that I don't believe you.

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43 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

You think a 6' 4" lightning fast CB would not be on our radar?

im sure he'd be on our radar, but as we use quants to buy footballer, i would be surprised if all the professional players in just about every top league in every country isn't on our radar and fucking loads besides. it's just a numbers game and we get drawn in by the release clause. the lad gets on the pitch about as much as matip, so his speed between the bog and the treatment table seems pretty irrelevant to me. 

40 minutes ago, Rotpeter said:

Isn't that the kind of stuff you have to do to compete against petrodollars?

is it? i don't know. we seem to have made the most significant strides when paying top dollar for players. 

19 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

 

Alternative versions of this is...

 

Thiago - Agreed a payment structure with Bayern with minimal up front costs.

Jota - Agreed a payment structure with Wolves with minimal up front costs.

Keita - Negotiated a deal a season ahead of us signing him based on RBL's performances, which meant we got him cheaper.

Elliot / Solanke - We wouldn't pay what Fulham & Chelsea wanted, hence the Tribunal, which we've saved money on.

 

The others I don't really care about.

 

On the flip side...

 

Solanke - We got £25m back for, I'm sure that wouldn't have been Bournemouths opening offer. Similar story with Brewster, Ings, Danny Ward, Kevin Stewart etc.

Werner - We wouldn't / couldn't pay the whole fee upfront so moved on.

Lewis - We wouldn't pay what Norwich wanted so moved on.

Kabak - We were quoted £30m in the summer, we've now got him on loan and for £18m in the summer, if we want.

 

Rightly or wrongly, our transfer is policy is to find under valued players and maximise their value on the pitch. It's obviously worked well in the last few years. Only maybe VVD & Alisson we've paid above the odds on (both were world records at the time), although I think we'd all agree they've both more than proved to be value for money.

 

I could go on, but I won't. I think my point is made.

 

I don't think you have made your point really. I am not suggesting we haven't had "value" in the market. in fact i would say that is the point of the exercise with the Edwards (FSG?) model. But you prove my point by highlighting our best results have come outside of that list of 10 players. Personally I am not interested in footballers who can contribute next to nothing because they are either injured (and in cases like Chamberlain came with a bad injury record) or players the manager doesn't want to put on the pitch. Out of that list of 10 I have posted, who has been a success? 

 

Ben Davies - will be a failure. 

Thiago - jury out. 

Minamino - failure so far. 

Lonergan - yawn. 

Adrian - had a good few games last season, but ultimately a failure. 

Elliot - good path so far, although clearly achieved nothing yet. 

Shaqiri - somewhere between failure and ordinary. 

keita - failure. 

Chamberlain - failure

Solanki - failure (but delivered a new yacht or whatever). 

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1 minute ago, Supremolad said:

Wow. This is genuinely the first I have heard of Alisson being signed only because we pulled out of the Fekir deal. And since it is contrary to all the reliable reports I had read about the Fekir deal, I can reliably inform you that I don't believe you.

klopp said something in an interview that we wouldn't have signed alisson had we signed fekir - he said something like "we moved the money onto alisson once we realised roma would accept less money". 

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2 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

klopp said something in an interview that we wouldn't have signed alisson had we signed fekir - he said something like "we moved the money onto alisson once we realised roma would accept less money". 

That would then be an example of a successful negotiation.

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Didnt Gerrard used to be fairly injured a bit when he was younger? I think there are young players who grow out of these things to a certain extent. So I don't get why we would instantly write off Konate based on one significant long term injury and a couple other shorter term ones.

 

All transfers are gambles in a way. You can sign a player with no significant injury record and then he becomes a sick note ( e.g Keita). There just aren't any guarantees. Before we signed Thiago, there were also lots of shouts about him being very injury prone. However, the games he missed this season were only because of a bastard tackle by Richarlison. He hasnt picked any other injury since he got fit. There just isnt a nailed on approach to these things.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Alisson for sure was a successful negotiation once Real Madrid pulled out. 

If by pulling out you mean they decided he was too expensive and were unable to successfully negotitate then yea, I guess. Whatever. You have become SpyBee-in-esque when it comes to this stuff.

 

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8 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

klopp said something in an interview that we wouldn't have signed alisson had we signed fekir - he said something like "we moved the money onto alisson once we realised roma would accept less money". 

Hmmm. I would be interested in finding that interview. I'll look around for it.

 

I do know there was something dodgy about Fekir's knee. If there wasnt, he wouldn't have ended up at lowly Betis despite being one of Europe's top playmakers at the time.

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18 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I don't think you have made your point really. I am not suggesting we haven't had "value" in the market. in fact i would say that is the point of the exercise with the Edwards (FSG?) model. But you prove my point by highlighting our best results have come outside of that list of 10 players. Personally I am not interested in footballers who can contribute next to nothing because they are either injured (and in cases like Chamberlain came with a bad injury record) or players the manager doesn't want to put on the pitch. Out of that list of 10 I have posted, who has been a success? 

 

Ben Davies - will be a failure. 

Thiago - jury out. 

Minamino - failure so far. 

Lonergan - yawn. 

Adrian - had a good few games last season, but ultimately a failure. 

Elliot - good path so far, although clearly achieved nothing yet. 

Shaqiri - somewhere between failure and ordinary. 

keita - failure. 

Chamberlain - failure

Solanki - failure (but delivered a new yacht or whatever). 


The opening point was you saying we’re to lazy to negotiate. I’ve pointed out recent examples where we have.

 

You’ve now listed signings where we haven’t negotiated (although I’d argue some of which we definitely have) and that none of these players look to be a success. 
 

Are you now saying because we didn’t negotiate these players (even though some we did) that they weren’t a success? If so, that’s like saying we shouldn’t have signed Miner on a free because Degan on a free was shit. 

 

I think my point is clear but for clarity - 

 

We aren’t “too lazy to negotiate”, we look for under valued players (whether that is contract / release driven or whatever) and maximise they’re potential. Some of them have clearly been disappointments (Keita massively) but whether we negotiated for them not is irrelevant. 
 

To say we are “too lazy to negotiate” is simply nonsense because there simply aren’t many examples of it. 

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6 minutes ago, Supremolad said:

Didnt Gerrard used to be fairly injured a bit when he was younger? I think there are young players who grow out of these things to a certain extent. So I don't get why we would instantly write off Konate based on one significant long term injury and a couple other shorter term ones.

 

All transfers are gambles in a wat. You can sign a player with no significant injury record and then he becomes a sick note ( e.g Keita). There are no guarantees. Before we signed Thiago, there were also lots of shouts about him being very injury prone. However, the games he missed this season were only because of a bastard tackle by Richarlison. He hasnt picked any other injury since he got fit. There just isnt a nailed on approach to these things.

 

 

Correct. And here we go again on the transfer roundabout. The club's making an early move if the reports are correct, going to spend 40m Euros or thereabout and hasnt 'sold to buy.' You couldnt make some of the reaction up.

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