We can’t carry on like this.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

7 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

So who are you blaming? What are you actually saying?

I think he’s saying that not strengthening from position, which I to a degree would agree that we failed to do, can’t explain a total breakdown like we’re seeing now. Which is correct imo. 

[niallers]

Didn't sir Bob have this problem in 81? We finished 5th that year and that was the only time in 18 years we finished out the top2 from 73 to 90. He had to integrate new players into the team, Whelan, rush, lee and the likes of Kennedy and Case were shown the door.

With our returning leaders, maybe it is time to move on a few of the older guard and refreshen the whole club.

[s(k)aturation]

Just now, Trumo said:

Can we also stop with the "These are shite" and "That team won't get near winning the [insert trophy]" posts about other teams, especially in the match threads.

 

But United are shite, aren't they?  

 

If we say it often enough, hopefully....

 

 

 

[Trumo]

At the moment, we are as shit at putting the mockers on other teams as Liverpool are at winning matches.

[Barrington Womble]

8 minutes ago, MegadriveMan said:

 

Yes it is a squad management issue. The reality is that Phillips, Williams, Kabak, Davies aren't very good players, certainly not good enough for a top four Premier League team. 

 

Gomez played 42 games last season. Matip played 30+ every season until last season. We gambled on VVD not getting injured this year and that has failed spectacularly. 

 

I agree its not the only issue. Mane and Firmino have been poor for most of the season. Playing Jota in a dead rubber game was unbelievably fucking stupid.  Allison has been injured, then Kelleher gets injured! Everyting that could possibly have gone wrong has gone wrong this season.  

 

 

But you make your own luck. I don't think luck is that random..you can't help big injuries etc, but you can help how you react to them. Last year we won loads of matches late in the game. You can call that luck. Or you can call it "mentality monsters". I don't think it was luck. We've had barely an injury to our front 3 in years, so we can't weep too much when our 4th choice forward gets injured in a dead rubber. Someone has to play - and what if it hadn't been a dead rubber? We've mostly put a strong team out through this bad run. I'll put it another way, if you look match to match who we've played through this bad run, how many of the opposition would get a game for us, aside from playing city, you'd mostly just say the centre backs? So we're normally better in 9 of 11 positions and still lose. All the mentality stuff we had the last 2 years has gone.  You make your own luck and we're not doing that right now. 

 

[ZonkoVille77]

A score draw would be utopian. 

[VladimirIlyich]

5 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

I think he’s saying that not strengthening from position, which I to a degree would agree that we failed to do, can’t explain a total breakdown like we’re seeing now. Which is correct imo. 

Yes,but it began from there and got worse. And it wasnt completely unexpected either.

[s(k)aturation]

2 hours ago, Baltar said:

Spot on. We drop off quite a bit when even one player from the regular 11 is missing, so it's no wonder we are a shambles with 4 or 5 regulars out. 

 

That's a fundamental problem right there though, isn't it?

 

[3 Stacks]

Just now, VladimirIlyich said:

Yes,but it began from there and got worse. And it wasnt completely unexpected either.

Our current form is absolutely unexpected. 

[chrisbonnie]

I do remember reading an article many years ago when klopps dortmund team where actually facing relegation. 

 

The jist of the article was how klopps system burns players out, so it's only suited to players under 25. 

 

It does make you think though doesn't it. 

 

His last season with dortmund was also riddled with injury and their form went to shit. 

 

 

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

1 minute ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Yes,but it began from there and got worse. And it wasnt completely unexpected either.

I’d argue that what we’ve witnessed over the last three months was just that, completely unexpected. I tend to be more on glass is half full side of things when it comes to our chances, and I’ve been harping on about the need to get new CBs in for at least two years. And I like many others thought we relied too much on our key players staying fit. But not for one second did I imagine we could reach this level of shite. And I dont think anyone else did either, at least I can’t remember anyone on here saying anything like that before the season. 
 

[s(k)aturation]

1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

You're right that this can't carry on and if the players were playing in front of fans they'd be under no illusion about that. The worry for me is we seem to be sleepwalking through this,

 

it was the lack of reaction to the results that have gone before that is the most worrying..it cannot continue.

 

This worries me the most.

 

[johnsusername]

The owners need to promise him he's going to have money spend this summer - proper money on proper players. None of this penny pinching, buying on the never-never, plugging square gaps with round holes.

 

We need a first team centre back and proper back up full backs. 

 

We need to bin off the deadwood.

 

We need a striker.

 

Klopp can work magic with the right ingredients - so there's no point having him work without.

[clangers]

As I recall he got Dortmund playing again after the winter break and they finished the 2nd half of the season strongly?

 

I thought he left Dortmund because he needed a break and came to the conclusion that the squad needed a full rebuild. They'd been resigning older players rather than paying to bring in quality younger additions.

 

We haven't seen a rebuild and a new generation from Klopp whilst at the same club yet have we?

 

I suspect if the funding isn't there in the summer and it's all bargain basement piecemeal tinkering he'll walk away.

[John102]

I may be wrong, as I'm not a stats nerd, but on a podcast at the time, I remember they mentioned how his team were just 'unlucky' in the first half of his last season and all the stats suggested they should be higher. They then did pick up towards the end of season, as the results reflected the underlying stats. 

 

I'm also not sure we play the same football as his dortmund team did, or even how we used to play. 

 

I don't think the 2 are linked 

[Red74]

How have we gone from twatting palace 7-0 and being top of the league without the centre halves to being petrified of everyone we play at home. 
 

Minamino must have put 1 sugar in Klopps tea after that game cos he never got a look in after that and the squad morales disintegrated 

[3 Stacks]

2 minutes ago, clangers said:

As I recall he got Dortmund playing again after the winter break and they finished the 2nd half of the season strongly?

 

I thought he left Dortmund because he needed a break and came to the conclusion that the squad needed a full rebuild. They'd been resigning older players rather than paying to bring in quality younger additions.

 

We haven't seen a rebuild and a new generation from Klopp whilst at the same club yet have we?

 

I suspect if the funding isn't there in the summer and it's all bargain basement piecemeal tinkering he'll walk away.

He extended his contract for this exact reason; to properly start a rebuild and ensure a smooth transition to the next manager because 2024 is around when our best players will almost all be in and around their 30's.

 

If he leaves now, it's because the results and the morale is so bad that he can't turn it around, it won't have to do with a rebuild. 

[s(k)aturation]

29 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

We never use to be like this.....

 

Yes we did.

 

 

[3 Stacks]

7 minutes ago, John102 said:

I may be wrong, as I'm not a stats nerd, but on a podcast at the time, I remember they mentioned how his team were just 'unlucky' in the first half of his last season and all the stats suggested they should be higher. They then did pick up towards the end of season, as the results reflected the underlying stats. 

 

I'm also not sure we play the same football as his dortmund team did, or even how we used to play. 

 

I don't think the 2 are linked 

We don't play remotely similar to how his Dortmund team did, besides the overriding philosophy of counter pressing. But we've been doing less and less of that too as time has gone on. His Dortmund team had defensive full backs and all the creativity was through the middle. It was Lewandowski, Gotze, Reus, Gundogan and Sahin. 

[clangers]

Despite the injuries we just haven't built on our success.

 

We run with much too small a squad of 1st team regulars, we've been lucky with injuries for much of the last three years, our front three and VVD have been played relentlessly. It's almost like a 1980's team with 13 or 14 1st team regulars with a commensurate drop off in quality and reliability beyond that.

 

The spend in 2018 led to 2019/20 with an increase in the quality of the 1st team right through the spine of the side. We've stalled since then, not taking advantage of being CL winners in the summer of 2019 was criminal.

[Megadrive Man]

7 minutes ago, Red74 said:

How have we gone from twatting palace 7-0 and being top of the league without the centre halves to being petrified of everyone we play at home. 
 

Minamino must have put 1 sugar in Klopps tea after that game cos he never got a look in after that and the squad morales disintegrated 

 

Matip started that game with Fabinho and we had Henderson in midfield.

 

Minamino started the FA Cup game against the Villa under 18's and looked weaker than most of their team! 

[waddy78]

If we tolerate this, then our children will be next.

 

anyone else think of this song when they read the title of this thread?

[Mark M]

4 minutes ago, clangers said:

Despite the injuries we just haven't built on our success.

 

We run with much too small a squad of 1st team regulars, we've been lucky with injuries for much of the last three years, our front three and VVD have been played relentlessly. It's almost like a 1980's team with 13 or 14 1st team regulars with a commensurate drop off in quality and reliability beyond that.

 

The spend in 2018 led to 2019/20 with an increase in the quality of the 1st team right through the spine of the side. We've stalled since then, not taking advantage of being CL winners in the summer of 2019 was criminal.

Agree with this.

 

I’m seeing a lot of posts / opinions online that FSG will now have to spend big this summer to turn things around. 

it won’t happen as that’s just not the way they work. 

after COVID effecting empty stadiums and to lose out on champions league football we’ll spend money based on sales we make on top of small transfer fund made available on top of that. 
With the financial situation so many clubs are in we’ll be getting next to nothing on some of the fringe players we want to sell.

 

[Captain Turdseye]

9 minutes ago, waddy78 said:

If we tolerate this, then our children will be next.

 

anyone else think of this song when they read the title of this thread?

No. 

[Harry Squatter]

1 minute ago, Mark M said:

Agree with this.

 

I’m seeing a lot of posts / opinions online that FSG will now have to spend big this summer to turn things around. 

it won’t happen as that’s just not the way they work. 

after COVID effecting empty stadiums and to lose out on champions league football we’ll spend money based on sales we make on top of small transfer fund made available on top of that. 
With the financial situation so many clubs are in we’ll be getting next to nothing on some of the fringe players we want to sell.

 

It's basically the worst time to expect them to put up money. They make excuses not to spend when everything is in place for them and the income is at a maximum. 

 

They will do less than what they have already done.