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Klopp: Now is not the time for a major rebuild  


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16 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

I think Jurgen disagrees with the concensus on here. He's said he sees a few leaving but doesnt intend bringing in 6 or 7 new players.

There's not a single person here who believes we'd buy 6-7 players anyway, but the squad does call for some turnover. That's kind of non-negotiable the way our squad is right now. We have 3-4 players who barely contribute due to constant injury, we have a starting 11 player who we pretty much know is leaving, and we have a whopping 10 current squad players whose contracts will all end within 2023. We aren't all extending these players. 

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28 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

I think Jurgen disagrees with the concensus on here. He's said he sees a few leaving but doesnt intend bringing in 6 or 7 new players.

The consensus is probably get rid of 5 (sicknotes mainly) and bring in 3 top quality players. Not that drastic considering what's at stake

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6 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

I suppose he's unlikely to say "Half of the squad are either fucking shite or complete sick notes"

And that’s the crux of the matter, they are. We absolutely can’t take anymore injury prone players, it’s killing us, fitness record should be the second consideration when buying a player after “are they any good” and it should be of equal importance.

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A team should be in a state of constant rebuild. There was not much genius involved in united in the 90s they where pretty much doing what Bayern do. The Premier league wasn't that global and full of Europeans, United assembled the most expensive side ever then every year bought the best players in the league because they could afford too. It was smart in the sense they nearly always had their eye on improving upon the first 11, they rarely sat still. Liverpool were spending their money trying to buy 6 positions at once, spreading a lot of money thinly. It never works, we won't bargain bucket our way to sustained success especially in modern football. The gems you find won't always shine. This summer we need to buy first 11 players we cant just "go again" it's bullshit 

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I put this is the FSG thread, I don't think we need a huge rebuild. We do need a new injection of quality to give us an extra impetus though.

 

1 hour ago, Scott_M said:

 

Sorry, I'm not sure I follow all that.

 

However, I do agree (which I think you saying) is that the squad players we have (Ox, Shaq, Keita, Minamino, etc) a have contributed absolutely fuck all this season, then I completely agree.

 

The way I envisage the core squad to be-ish next season would be...

 

Alisson, Kelleher

TAA, Williams, Milner

Robbo, Tsmiskas, Milner

VVD, Gomez, Matip, Davies, 2 new players.

Hendo, Fabinho, Thiago, Jones, Milner, Ox, 1 new player.

Salah, Mane, Firmino, Jota, Elliot, 1 new player.

 

Gomez and Matip stay because they actually contribute when they play. Ox to stay because he's English. 25 players, significant cover in every position. 

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1 hour ago, 3 Stacks said:

There's not a single person here who believes we'd buy 6-7 players anyway, but the squad does call for some turnover. That's kind of non-negotiable the way our squad is right now. We have 3-4 players who barely contribute due to constant injury, we have a starting 11 player who we pretty much know is leaving, and we have a whopping 10 current squad players whose contracts will all end within 2023. We aren't all extending these players. 

Is right.

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1 hour ago, Captain Howdy said:

And that’s the crux of the matter, they are. We absolutely can’t take anymore injury prone players, it’s killing us, fitness record should be the second consideration when buying a player after “are they any good” and it should be of equal importance.

 

Wijnaldum is going to go, and Milner will be 47 so probably will go as well. I think he should. Been fantastic for the mentality of the squad over the last few years, but frankly he isn't good enough any more.

 

This lot are all either nowhere near good enough, will never be good enough, or are always injured - Adrian, Karius, Matip, Grujic, Wilson, Awoniyi, Ojo, Woodburn, Origi, Keita, and Oxlade-Chamberlain.

 

This lot are either probably not good enough, probably not good enough yet, we don't know if they're good enough yet, or they seem unfancied by Klopp - Kabak, Davies, Phillips, Tsmikas, Shaqiri, Minamino, N Williams, R Williams, Elliot.

 

Huge question marks over Firmino as well.

 

So we're likely to start next season, before we've signed anyone, with this lot who are thought to be good enough by most people. Or rather, most people will think most of them are good enough. There would be reasonable consensus if we took a poll (possibly not one or two of them) - Alisson, TAA, Robertson, VVD, Gomez, Fabinho, Thiago, Mane, Salah, Henderson, Jones, Jota, Kelleher. 

 

13 players. One of which is a young back up keeper, another a 20 year old central midfielder, one a centre back who by the age of 23 has already had a couple of long term injuries, one a seemingly bona fide world class central midfielder who looks a bit lost in our set up. Also, most of our best players are nearly 30. Not really a huge issue playing wise yet, but you know full well the owners will be thinking about who they can still get big money for.

 

 

Apologies for the waffly FM type post, but I think we are either going to have very similar problems next season as we've had this, possibly a little less so as you have to hope we won't have quite such horrendous luck, or we're going to need to be pretty bold this summer. I fear we won't be, and can see a squad which just isn't quite strong enough in terms of depth and balance, crumbling a bit like this season.

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VVDs injury is bad luck so was Thiagos if you can call being crippled by another player bad luck the rest of our injuries were fairly predictable in a season that's busy without a preseason after 3 years of intense football with a fairly small squad many of who are as injured as much as they are fit anyway. Matip cannot be relied upon to be fit, Gomez has his share of injuries, kieta and Ox always injured,  shaquiri with his bollocks or calf injuries, fabinho and Henderson always get a strain at some point in the season. The Squad fodder at least needs to be available for selection.

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52 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

VVDs injury is bad luck so was Thiagos if you can call being crippled by another player bad luck the rest of our injuries were fairly predictable in a season that's busy without a preseason after 3 years of intense football with a fairly small squad many of who are as injured as much as they are fit anyway. Matip cannot be relied upon to be fit, Gomez has his share of injuries, kieta and Ox always injured,  shaquiri with his bollocks or calf injuries, fabinho and Henderson always get a strain at some point in the season. The Squad fodder at least needs to be available for selection.

 

True but you can't do much able his knee cap falling out in training, having his leg broken at Burnley or being made to play on for the England u21's with an ALC.

 

IMO, somebody like Keita who has these permanent niggles, is far more annoying than Gomez.

 

Plus, Gomez is normally pretty good when he plays.  

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Hendo is not going to get any more dynamic or any fitter than he already is (putting the injury aside). He’s on a slow downward trajectory, and every serious injury accelerates his decline, so at the risk of repeating myself, we must find or develop his replacement. Same for VVD.

We also need solid replacements for both TAA and Robbo to cover for them, if they get injured. Do we have them? We must be developing players, but I don’t watch the youngsters in action. Gomez is interchangeable to an extent, when fit.

 

Forgetting ‘rebuilding’ for the time being, this squad is paper thin.

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I think Klopp knows he will need to have a fairly big rebuild in the summer he's just not going to come out and say it with 14 games left and needing a minor miracle to grab top 4, those players who will move on are still needed to give there all for those games. Origi, Gini, Adrian, Shaq and probably a few others ( Wilson, Davis, a few fringe/ U23 players) will go as they probably would have this summer if anyone had any money, I still think 1 of the front 3 will go I'm hoping Bobby out of them 3.These players will need replacing that's not to mention the CB we will still need to replace Lovren and the injury prone Gomez and Matip the squad is paper thin quality wise so weather he admits it publically or not he knows it's a fairly big rebuild it's to be seen if the owners back him.

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We need a starting centre half and an attacking mid plus a striker option for me. We have players we can sell if we’re not greedy. The injury prone players and those not contributing can go. Rather have Stewart on the bench than Origi and one of the young midfielders before Chamberlain and probably Keita.

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4 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

We need a starting centre half and an attacking mid plus a striker option for me. We have players we can sell if we’re not greedy. The injury prone players and those not contributing can go. Rather have Stewart on the bench than Origi and one of the young midfielders before Chamberlain and probably Keita.

Yeah, I'd much rather we had 15/16 top class players and a load of kids from the ressies if need be than have 11/12 top class players and a dozen injury prone mid table players. 

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8 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

Yeah, I'd much rather we had 15/16 top class players and a load of kids from the ressies if need be than have 11/12 top class players and a dozen injury prone mid table players. 

Never known in all my years us to have so many injury prone players and others just not contributing.

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4 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

Never known in all my years us to have so many injury prone players and others just not contributing.

It actually reminds me of when we used to bring N'Gog on for the last ten minutes of games. 

 

Because we've never had the spending power of United, Chelsea or City consequently it always feels like we're half a season away from everything being utterly shite. 

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Just now, Jairzinho said:

It actually reminds me of when we used to bring N'Gog on for the last ten minutes of games. 

 

Because we've never had the spending power of United, Chelsea or City consequently it always feels like we're half a season away from everything being utterly shite. 

Ngog haha. Last few years winning and huge money coming in we had the chance to truly bolster the squad. That horse has bolted. We must bring in quality in the summer hopefully we will. Not holding my breath.

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48 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

Ngog haha. Last few years winning and huge money coming in we had the chance to truly bolster the squad. That horse has bolted. We must bring in quality in the summer hopefully we will. Not holding my breath.

I similarly have no faith whatsoever. The owners have a ready made excuse which they'll be only too happy to use.

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2 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

Oh they will use it know doubt. Hopefully we can sell,what we need to and Jurgen can work some magic.

Although I think Jurgen likes to do things "organically" and would feel nothing at a club like City, if he feels he can't compete he'll leave at the end of next season, I reckon.

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9 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

So you're suggesting he's a shill? Come on mate, you're better than that. And wouldnt Jurgen get even more kudos in the eyes of the anti FSG mob if he told it like you say?

 

Why do people insist Jurgen is also spinning a lie as regards the number of main players he wants or considers he's likely to bring in, in the summer window?

Why do you think that I think a great manager like Klopp is a shill? That's a stupid assumption and Klopp is far from a stupid man. Why do you always take things literally too? As Aventus??? said,Klopp is over exaggerating but I think he knows we need quality players yet is trying to play a straight bat and keep his own frustrations in check. I'd like to think he's really saying 'I dont need ten players and a rebuild but I do need 3 or 4 and I dont believe its unreasonable to need that.'

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6 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

Although I think Jurgen likes to do things "organically" and would feel nothing at a club like City, if he feels he can't compete he'll leave at the end of next season, I reckon.

I hope you’re wrong but I could see it unfortunately. They have to give him a chance to work his magic. Not hopeful as we’ve said. 

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Before we all start packing Klopp's bags, can we stop and consider whether maybe - just maybe - a hack asked him a question and he answered honestly: we don't need a rebuild. 

 

This summer, three first-team signings - a CB; a replacement for Gini; a Jota-level forward - would be enough to get us competing for the league again. Add to that some tinkering with the bench and you still don't have a "rebuild".

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17 minutes ago, AngryofTuebrook said:

Before we all start packing Klopp's bags, can we stop and consider whether maybe - just maybe - a hack asked him a question and he answered honestly: we don't need a rebuild. 

 

This summer, three first-team signings - a CB; a replacement for Gini; a Jota-level forward - would be enough to get us competing for the league again. Add to that some tinkering with the bench and you still don't have a "rebuild".

Exactly this but it's getting replaced by hubris. He said it in an interview, not the time for a big rebuild and it isnt the time for 6 or 7 newcomers.

 

Some people want a squad rebuild shipping out 6 or 7 but it aint happening. The manager says so.

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