Greatest Album Ever - Group A (Vote for your top 2)

[Mook]

1 minute ago, SasaS said:

Ziggy is his fifth album. First two went completely unnoticed and others were not commercial successes, not even close to what he enjoyed later. He has already been trying for almost ten years to make it big and watched people like Page and Bolan do it. Read some biographies people.

Number 3 in the album charts 'not a commercial success'?

[TheHowieLama]

Space Oddity was a hit single - it was off his first record - 1969.

 

It is a bit like the Beatles - he was recording stuff so quickly. Ziggy stuff was already recoreded before Hunky Dory came out I think. Then All the Young Dudes is a hit as Ziggy comes out.

 

 

[SasaS]

8 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Space Oddity was a hit single - it was off his first record - 1969.

 

 

And notoriously failed to launch his career. He was seen as a one hit wonder after that for a while.

Hunky Dory Bowie was still only a cult hero, John Peel material. 

Ziggy put him where he wanted to be, what he worked for all his life.

And by the way, why is that seen as so controversial, I though it was common knowledge. Bowie is usually brought up as an example you should not give up even if it seems you are never going to make it.

 

[TheHowieLama]

If by awhile you mean about 28 months then yeah - he really stuck with it.

 

I think in hindsight it has been made a little much of based on the record labels involvement.

 

Imagine an artist today going from the first amateur gigs they played as a teenager to recording Ziggy in 10 years time and saying they really hung in there.

 

[SasaS]

38 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

If by awhile you mean about 28 months then yeah - he really stuck with it.

 

I think in hindsight it has been made a little much of based on the record labels involvement.

 

Imagine an artist today going from the first amateur gigs they played as a teenager to recording Ziggy in 10 years time and saying they really hung in there.

 

Do read up on his early career.

 

As an aside, I have always been fascinated how people make it and why, how fickle it usually is, why is public all of a sudden interested in something they didn't care about before, how music travels from niche to mainstream.  

 

People usually seem to think about it in absolutes, this is great, it was always great, and you only had to turn up and everybody would immediately recognize you as great.

 

As I recall Nirvana for example were not thought of as the SubPop's band with the most potential, they were betting on Soundgarden or Alice In Chains I think, with Mudhoney being the critics' choice. And then Butch Vig made them superstars. White Zombie I remember used to play Eastern European shithole clubs in front of 50 not very interested people, Henry Rollins went from postpunk cult hero to megaseller, Urge Overkill nobody knew who they were then for a while they were getting big offers, then went back to obscurity, Sonic Youth were extremely niche then suddenly started selling a lot records in the '90s. There are probably many other fascinating stories In other genres, Tourists were largely unnoticed before they became Eurythmics , Deep Purple I think made it when they moved from acoustic to hard rock, T Rey were also changing both name and style and so on.

 

[Mook]

Deep Purple were never an acoustic group.

[TheHowieLama]

25 minutes ago, SasaS said:

 

As I recall Nirvana for example were not thought of as the SubPop's band with the most potential, they were betting on Soundgarden

 

I think Soundgarden started SubPop as a label.

 

 

 

[SasaS]

3 minutes ago, Mook said:

Deep Purple were never an acoustic group.

I may have confused them with someone then, one of this big heavy / hard bands had an "acoustic" phase (or it may have been folk or much less hard rock possibly) as far as I recall, a friend once surprised a group of us youngones by playing us that group's earlier albums (he was a big collector). I always thought it was Deep Purple, it may have been somebody else.

[Bjornebye]

All Saints didn't make it main-stream until they ditched thrash metal for pop to be fair. They've never ever looked back. 

[SasaS]

1 minute ago, TheHowieLama said:

I think Soundgarden started SubPop as a label.

Possibly. I remember Nirvana when they were one of their bands.

[Juniper]

Wolff Alice used to be a hippy folk band, with two girls and two guys. One of my old bands used to gig with them.

 

Then they changed their lineup, picked out electric guitars and distortion pedals and got signed - then won a Grammy. 
 

Always fine margins from bands who make it as to the reasons why their caught on.

 

Sometimes it’s luck, other times it’s been labels heavily pushing them and radio stations pushing them too.

 

Lots of factors come into it. Certain element of luck and everything coming together perfectly too. 

[TheHowieLama]

2 minutes ago, SasaS said:

Possibly. I remember Nirvana when they were one of their bands.

You must have been onto Nirvana early then - only Bleach is a Sub Pop record. 

[PestiRed]

4 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I may have confused them with someone then, one of this big heavy / hard bands had an "acoustic" phase (or it may have been folk or much less hard rock possibly) as far as I recall, a friend once surprised a group of us youngones by playing us that group's earlier albums (he was a big collector). I always thought it was Deep Purple, it may have been somebody else.

I reckon you’ve confused Deep Purple for Status Quo and quite rightly so, they’re basically the same 

[TheHowieLama]

6 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I may have confused them with someone then, one of this big heavy / hard bands had an "acoustic" phase (or it may have been folk or much less hard rock possibly) as far as I recall, a friend once surprised a group of us youngones by playing us that group's earlier albums (he was a big collector). I always thought it was Deep Purple, it may have been somebody else.

Jon Lord never had an acoustic phase.

 

Tull? Zep III?

[SasaS]

2 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

You must have been onto Nirvana early then - only Bleach is a Sub Pop record. 

I am pretty certain I listened to them before they made it big, there were tapes going around with various SubPop bands, the label was pretty in at the time, I think Green River were my early favourites. I do remember not knowing how big Nirvana actually were at the time, they were just a SubPop band to me at first.

[SasaS]

16 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Jon Lord never had an acoustic phase.

 

Tull? Zep III?

No idea, but looking at DP's wiki page, they talk about early albums as having "traces of a heavy sound" so it may have been a selection of much softer tracks from the albums before In Rock or whichever is that second line-up inaugural album. So it seems there was a transition to what we know as "true" Purple.

[Mook]

12 minutes ago, SasaS said:

No idea, but looking at DP's wiki page, they talk about early albums as having "traces of a heavy sound" so it may have been a selection of much softer tracks from the albums before In Rock or whichever is that second line-up inaugural album. So it seems there was a transition to what we know as "true" Purple.

The albums with the original line up were inspired by Hendrix & Vanilla Fudge amongst others & they had a huge US hit with Hush on their first LP (Shades of Deep Purple). They were definitely a rock group.

 

When they hired Ian Gillan & Roger Glover, the first project was Jon Lord's classical Concerto then they moved onto In Rock & a much more Zeppelin/heavy sound, which they perfected on Machine Head in '72.

[SasaS]

4 minutes ago, Mook said:

The line ups with the original line up were inspired by Hendrix & Vanilla Fudge amongst others & they had a huge US hit with Hush on their first LP (Shades of Deep Purple). They were definitely a rock group.

 

When they hired Ian Gillan & Roger Glover, the first project was Jon Lord's classical Concerto then they moved onto In Rock & a much more Zeppelin/heavy sound, which they perfected on Machine Head in '72.

OK, then the memory played a trick on me. But they moved to this heavy sound and stayed there, because that was the musical form or genre that brought them the most success?

[Mook]

Just now, SasaS said:

OK, then the memory played a trick on me. But they moved to this heavy sound and stayed there, because that was the musical form or genre that brought them the most success?

Aye, that was certainly a large part of it.

[Mook]

Here's a before & after...

 

 

 

[cloggypop]

1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

I think Soundgarden started SubPop as a label.

 

 

 

They didn't but they were an early release by them, just after Green River who contained members of Mudhoney and Pearl Jam.

[cloggypop]

1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

You must have been onto Nirvana early then - only Bleach is a Sub Pop record. 

I saw their first UK gig. Newcastle Riverside supporting TAD. Sub Pop was great.

[cloggypop]

1 hour ago, SasaS said:

I am pretty certain I listened to them before they made it big, there were tapes going around with various SubPop bands, the label was pretty in at the time, I think Green River were my early favourites. I do remember not knowing how big Nirvana actually were at the time, they were just a SubPop band to me at first.

Surely everyone has Sub Pop 100?

[TheHowieLama]

3 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

They didn't but they were an early release by them, just after Green River who contained members of Mudhoney and Pearl Jam.

They won a talent show or something that got the money to start the label.

 

It was a fanzine before tht. Usher get a move on and make the transition pal.

[cloggypop]

We need @TK421 for a proper Sub Pop discussion.