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Boxing 2021

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17 minutes ago, an tha said:

While there were obviously plenty of bums fed to the best from previous eras there is no doubt in mind the levels of the best were better back then than the best of recent years in the division.

 

Prime Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis are leagues ahead of Joshua and Wilder and ok we are talking about all time greats with that list covering 4 decades, but for my money even the 2nd tier heavies of those decades that were the fighters those greats were beating were a higher level than Joshua/Wilder and also much better than the 2nd tier fighters in this era like Parker, Pulev, Povetkin, Chisora, Whyte et al.

 

Give me across those decades likes of Norton, Shavers, Cooney, Weaver, Pinklon Thomas, Moorer, Bowe, Ruddock et al over the above every time.

 

 

 

I somewhat agree with this though I would say this is the highest overall standard since the turn of the century, the Klitschko's barely seemed to have any competition once Lewis retired. The top 10 now is relatively decent.

 

In no particular order:

 

Fury 

Usyk

AJ

Wilder

Whyte

Ortiz

Ruiz

Parker

Povetkin

Joyce

 

I've probably forgotten a couple. 

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I think Usyk and Fury is quite interesting. Obviously Fury is a far better boxer than Joshua and even bigger but I think Usyk fights him slightly differently to Joshua. Despite what he did against Wilder, Fury isn't as big a puncher as Joshua which I feel frees up Usyk to be more aggressive.

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3 minutes ago, Remmie said:

I somewhat agree with this though I would say this is the highest overall standard since the turn of the century, the Klitschko's barely seemed to have any competition once Lewis retired. The top 10 now is relatively decent.

 

In no particular order:

 

Fury 

Usyk

AJ

Wilder

Whyte

Ortiz

Ruiz

Parker

Povetkin

Joyce

 

I've probably forgotten a couple. 

Fair points.

 

The Klitschko's faced really poor opposition look at their records in the early to mid 00's and they are a who's nobody of nobodies lists!

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2 minutes ago, an tha said:

Fair points.

 

The Klitschko's faced really poor opposition look at their records in the early to mid 00's and they are a who's nobody of nobodies lists!

I feel a bit sorry for the Klits as they will be never considered greats due to the shite they faced but they still had to be put away. It's not their fault they were in a poor era. Trying to think of their toughest opponents, Samuel Peter maybe? He'd get starched by the likes of Ortiz now

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8 minutes ago, Remmie said:

I feel a bit sorry for the Klits as they will be never considered greats due to the shite they faced but they still had to be put away. It's not their fault they were in a poor era. Trying to think of their toughest opponents, Samuel Peter maybe? He'd get starched by the likes of Ortiz now

A lot of crossover with the lads today as well Povetkin, Pulev and Chisora for example were around then.

 

Rahman springs to mind...

 

Obviously Lewis beat Vitali and Wladimir has fought most of the current crop albeit as an aged  fighter.

 

Those fights that were mostly close and competitive tell you they were better than maybe they get credit for.

 

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I think in the right era Vitali could have put himself up as a great. He was never decked and only ever lost due to injury. That fight with Lewis was sensational stuff and the only time I remember genuinely thinking Lewis was getting bested here. Maybe Fury will have that issue now, a lot discredited him early doors (me included) as he looks so clumsy and often pedestrian. No one seems to be posting that gif of him hitting himself any more!

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I think Rahman was pretty shite. Other than his wonder punch against Lewis he didn't beat anyone decent, the best name on his record apart from the obvious great of Lewis was maybe Corrie Sanders or Monte Barratt. And yes I did need to look that up! Draws against Tua and Toney also give him some level of respect I guess.

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17 minutes ago, Remmie said:

No one seems to be posting that gif of him hitting himself any more!


What gif?

 

Dc73js.gif

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22 minutes ago, Remmie said:

I think in the right era Vitali could have put himself up as a great. He was never decked and only ever lost due to injury. That fight with Lewis was sensational stuff and the only time I remember genuinely thinking Lewis was getting bested here. Maybe Fury will have that issue now, a lot discredited him early doors (me included) as he looks so clumsy and often pedestrian. No one seems to be posting that gif of him hitting himself any more!

Fair about Vitali.

 

Fury i still have reservations about....his record really does not contain anybody of note Wilder and a 40 year old Klitschko aside.

 

I feel his massive personality and his honesty leads people to maybe rate him more than he deserves.

 

I know he was brilliant in 2nd Wilder fight but 

worth remembering that whilst people talk about fury being this unreal technician, an untouchable boxer who moves like a middleweight and can outfox anyone and of course being huge as well, that Wilder knocked him flat out in 1st fight (yes he got up and was incredible he did) but he can be caught and most heavies can bang...

 

He was cut to shreds by a nobody as well.

 

His dedication is a question, and all the ballooning up in weight and back down again will take its toll - he doesn’t look like he should be as good as he is. Imagine if he was properly dedicated…...but it not only raises question about how good could he be if he was more dedicated/mentally stable but also the question of if that dedication drops to a level where he is hardly working/his mental struggles impact him and he starts just living off his hype how badly prepared could he climb into a ring....

 

I suppose the never knowing what to expect from him/in his fights adds to the attraction and i am not saying he isn't very good, just saying i remain a little unconvinced.

 

I could just as easily see Wilder knocking him out in a round as i could see him putting on a clinic again!

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5 minutes ago, an tha said:

Fair about Vitali.

 

Fury i still have reservations about....his record really does not contain anybody of note Wilder and a 40 year olf Klitschko aside.

 

I feel his massive personality and his honesty leads people to maybe rate him more than he deserves.

 

I know he was brilliant in 2nd Wilder fight but 

worth remembering that whilst people talk about fury being this unreal technician, an untouchable boxer who moves like a middleweight and can outfox anyone and of course being huge as well, that Wilder knocked him flat out in 1st fight (yes he got up and was incredible he did) but he can be caught and most heavies can bang...

 

He was cut to shreds by a nobody as well.

 

His dedication is a question, and all the ballooning up in weight and back down again will take its toll - he doesn’t look like he should be as good as he is. Imagine if he was properly dedicated…...but it not only raises question about how good could he be if he was more dedicated/mentally stable but also the question of if that dedication drops to a level where he is hardly working and just living off his hype how badly prepared could he climb into a ring....

 

I suppose the never knowing what to expect from him/in his fights adds to the attraction and i am not saying he isn't very good, just saying i remain a little unconvinced.

 

I could just as easily see Wilder knocking him out in a round as i could see him putting on a clinic again!

I think Fury struggled with concentration and motivation early in his career, when motivated it brings out the best in him. He is such a strange character that people maybe don't realise his ring IQ, but when he talks boxing he clearly knows his stuff. He can be a bit chinny but anyone can back in heavyweight boxing and he always seems to get up and come out fighting. 

 

This is the 3rd big fight in his career to collapse after David Price's level became apparent and Haye got injured. WHo knows where he'd be now had those fights transpired, maybe he would have already fought Joshua.

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5 minutes ago, Remmie said:

I think Fury struggled with concentration and motivation early in his career, when motivated it brings out the best in him. He is such a strange character that people maybe don't realise his ring IQ, but when he talks boxing he clearly knows his stuff. He can be a bit chinny but anyone can back in heavyweight boxing and he always seems to get up and come out fighting. 

 

This is the 3rd big fight in his career to collapse after David Price's level became apparent and Haye got injured. WHo knows where he'd be now had those fights transpired, maybe he would have already fought Joshua.

He has certainly been unlucky in that respect and it has made his career more staccato than ideal - as sadly has the way that boxing is controlled by promoters and tv execs instead of by proper governing bodies like other sports.

 

I've said for years way boxing is run a joke. It needs controlling properly, reduce the number of belts and dictate who fights who. Rematches should only be acceptable if there is a split or close decision (or the yanks cheat), it shouldn’t be written into contracts. They don’t realise fans lose interest. I don’t want to see numerous boring rematches.

 

Should be a governing body who decides who fights who based on rankings and have a proper unified ranking sysytem that is transparent and easy for the public to follow/understand.

 

It won't happen of course - boxing is what it is and has been for ages.

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44 minutes ago, Remmie said:

I think in the right era Vitali could have put himself up as a great. He was never decked and only ever lost due to injury. That fight with Lewis was sensational stuff and the only time I remember genuinely thinking Lewis was getting bested here. Maybe Fury will have that issue now, a lot discredited him early doors (me included) as he looks so clumsy and often pedestrian. No one seems to be posting that gif of him hitting himself any more!

Fury absolutely rammed most of our predictions about him down our throats. That last performance against Wilder was just unreal. 

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23 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Fury absolutely rammed most of our predictions about him down our throats. That last performance against Wilder was just unreal. 

Indeed, if only he wasn’t such a misogynistic homophobe you could possibly root for him but as he is here’s hoping Usyk smashes fuck out of him.

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1 hour ago, Remmie said:

I feel a bit sorry for the Klits as they will be never considered greats due to the shite they faced but they still had to be put away. It's not their fault they were in a poor era. Trying to think of their toughest opponents, Samuel Peter maybe? He'd get starched by the likes of Ortiz now

Odlanier Solís should have been the big challenger but like many Cubans once he got out of Cuba and tasted the money he lost it

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1 minute ago, Lee909 said:

Odlanier Solís should have been the big challenger but like many Cubans once he got out of Cuba and tasted the money he lost it

Good shout, saw Solis stop Haye in the amatuers, think Solis was doing well in a first fight with a Klit before getting injured.

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12 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

Indeed, if only he wasn’t such a misogynistic homophobe you could possibly root for him but as he is here’s hoping Usyk smashes fuck out of him.

Im a proper Usyk fan boy, still want the homophobe to beat Wilder again though. 

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1 minute ago, Bjornebye said:

Im a proper Usyk fan boy, still want the homophobe to beat Wilder again though. 

So do I but only so Usyk can humiliate him…..and he will…..and it will be awesome

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I'd piss myself if after 2/3 years of the British pushing Joshua vs Fury if the big fight ended up Wilder vs Usyk. 

 

I doubt it will, but it would be funny 

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1 hour ago, Captain Howdy said:

So do I but only so Usyk can humiliate him…..and he will…..and it will be awesome

 

59 minutes ago, Elite said:

Usyk isn't humiliating Fury. He may beat him in a close fight but humiliate? No chance.

Elite is right, Usyk could batter the planet except Fury. Be some fight though 

47 minutes ago, Lee909 said:

I'd piss myself if after 2/3 years of the British pushing Joshua vs Fury if the big fight ended up Wilder vs Usyk. 

 

I doubt it will, but it would be funny 

It probably will be

 

 

 

 

 

 

What a horrible snide sore losing cunt. And that lip smacking and noises between words if he sat on a train next to me it wouldn't just be his eye closing up the fucking scruff. "a little issue in the fight" what a galactic wanker. If he came out and said "yeah, tactics wrong and he schooled me" sound well done fair play instead its me me me. 

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19 hours ago, Elite said:

Yeah that's the fight that we need to see now but boxing politics will get in the way.

 

I think Usyk is capable of beating Fury as well, as he's struggled with smaller fighters in the past however Fury knows how to use all his physical attributes and can fight on the inside brilliant unlike Joshua. Fury is the slight favourite for me but Usyk is capable of beating anyone, you won't find a fight with a better pedigree.

 

Usyk has a sky high ring IQ, but I don't know how he beats Fury.

 

Styles make fights and Fury is a stylistic nightmare for Usyk; Fury can move, good jab, solid footwork, doesn't run out of gas, has a chin and determination. Not only that, but he knows to use all that height and weight: he'll grab, push you, lean on you and throw dirty shots on the inside.

 

I think Usyk would spank Wilder, Whyte, Ruiz, Parker and AJ again, but Fury is a very complicated puzzle that would be a bridge too far, in my view.

 

I now have Usyk as P4P #1 in the world, by the way.

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