Summer 2021 transfer thread.

[TD_LFC]

4 minutes ago, Moo said:

FFP has been relaxed for the 2020 and 2021 financial years under emergency measures to allow owners to put money in to cover Covid related losses (which is apparently what's hamstrung us).

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jun/18/uefa-agree-to-suspend-financial-fair-play-rules-due-to-pandemic

Covid related losses, but not transfers.

[Moo]

7 minutes ago, TD_LFC said:

Here's something I put on another thread about the same issue last week. IT's obviously more complex than the below and the below isn't comprehensive but as a very rough outline of some of the issues.

 

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Increasing revenue and reducing costs are the best ways of achieving it but it's not a sexy discussion to have because nobody is really interested in the business side of football despite it being so crucial to a clubs ability to succeed.

 

FFP and Profit and Sustainability haven't gone away (yet) even during Covid, they still exist with slightly different parameters (mainly averaging losses over the 19/20 - 20/21 seasons instead of taking each year in it's own right) so clubs still have to comply at a domestic and European level (be it legally or illegally).

 

Some clubs, like Chelsea, can gut there youth systems and sell a big player to Madrid to get around that, others can artificially inflate the the amounts they receive through sponsorships and have open investigations still pending, some take out massive panic loans to try and get back to the big table.

 

What most aren't doing is having transfers funded directly out of owners pockets and that's because there are mechanisms in place to prevent the kind of direct investment, that isn't spent on infrastructure and a clubs sustainability, that saw dodgy owners coming in promising the world and bailing leaving clubs in massive transfer/wage based debt (see Portsmouth).

 

Now there are legal ways around that, a club can apply for a voluntary agreement that gives an allowance for a club to make additional losses, over and above the threshold, provided there's is an commitment to cover those losses and the criteria for applying is met.

 

To meet those criteria a club must fulfil the break even requirements in the monitoring period that precedes the request or been subject to a significant change in ownership or control within the 12 months preceding the application.

 

Providing those conditions have been met clubs must "submit an irrevocable commitment(s) by an equity participant(s) and/or related party(ies) to make contribution for an amount at least equal to the aggregate future break-even deficits for all the reporting periods covered by the voluntary agreement. The irrevocable commitment must be evidenced by way of a legally binding agreement between the licensee and the equity participant and/or related party" AC Milan applied for a VA and were refused due to debts running into the hundreds of millions of pounds.

 

COVID has undoubtedly had an effect, and given we used our big ticket sale a few years earlier we didn't have that luxury to do it again during COVID, the Red Bird investment could never be used to fund transfers as it was never a direct investment in LFC and the Nike deal only increases our revenue it doesn't solve all the issues, the club are still expected to lose a massive amount of money in the next published accounts.

 

Okay so draw my attention to the bit that shows it would not have been possible for our owners to give us a loan in order to cover Covid losses.

I've just posted an article on it, again it won't be comprehensive but the gist is there.

[CapeRed]

48 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

How do you think the Red Sox would feel about "loaning" some of their money? Would the NASCAR team have signed off on that you think?

I think the red sox went through the same shit show with basically no incoming. Would be interested to know if this had any fan kickback.

[Moo]

Just now, TD_LFC said:

Covid related losses, but not transfers.

But Covid related losses are apparently what's prevented transfers.  So use the loan to cover Covid losses and use the money within the club to fund transfers instead of Covid losses.

[TheHowieLama]

1 minute ago, Moo said:

But Covid related losses are apparently what's prevented transfers.  So use the loan to cover Covid losses and use the money within the club to fund transfers instead of Covid losses.

Erm, if there were "money within the club" there would be no losses right?

[3 Stacks]

7 minutes ago, Chris said:

 

Absolutely did not say we were rebuilding right now. 

Ok, I'm confused at the timing of your post, then. 

[TD_LFC]

Just now, Moo said:

But Covid related losses are apparently what's prevented transfers.  So use the loan to cover Covid losses and use the money within the club to fund transfers instead of Covid losses.

No it's another factor, albeit very important, in a bigger picture.

 

The general complaint you see on here (and is replicated across other clubs) is why doesn't an owner put his hand in his pocket for transfers. Nobody gives a shit about an owner putting their hand in their pocket to cover operating losses and if that comes in by way of an inter company loan it's still money due.

 

I think the club took out a loan with the bank for early covid losses and paid a large chunk, if not all, back.

[Chris]

2 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Ok, I'm confused at the timing of your post, then. 

 

It's quite straightforward really. The focus on re-upping everyone's deals and not bringing anyone in is ahead of a pending rebuild when Klopp leaves. They're not planning for continuity of success. 

[TheHowieLama]

2 minutes ago, CapeRed said:

I think the red sox went through the same shit show with basically no incoming. Would be interested to know if this had any fan kickback.

No idea, just know the Rays are well on top this year.

 

Maybe it passes me by on American sports but there is nowhere near the hysterical fannyism when it comes to owners. That said major American sports run each league like individual corporations and tend/try to enact policies that are designed to even the playing fields. 

[TD_LFC]

8 minutes ago, CapeRed said:

I think the red sox went through the same shit show with basically no incoming. Would be interested to know if this had any fan kickback.

There was when Mookie Bets left.

 

Red Sox were consistently over the luxury tax limit and Dave Dobrowski had traded away the entire farm system for short term gain so a reset was needed to re-stock and get back under the luxury tax bracket.

[Moo]

1 minute ago, TheHowieLama said:

Erm, if there were "money within the club" there would be no losses right?

Erm, not necessarily. We could have Covid related losses and still break even or make a profit from other revenue but there's not enough left to put into transfers.

This is silly now.

 

Just someone, for the love of Fowler, point to the rules in FFP that say if you take a loan to cover FFP losses then you would not be expected to spend on transfers in the same period. 

[3 Stacks]

1 minute ago, Chris said:

 

It's quite straightforward really. The focus on re-upping everyone's deals and not bringing anyone in is ahead of a pending rebuild when Klopp leaves. They're not planning for continuity of success. 

Ok, that makes more sense. 

 

But the last part is very arguable. If you're extending your top players that have won you trophies it stands to reason you're trying to build continuity and sustained success. 

[CapeRed]

8 minutes ago, Moo said:

But Covid related losses are apparently what's prevented transfers.  So use the loan to cover Covid losses and use the money within the club to fund transfers instead of Covid losses.

The club used the little known , hardly used EPL tight cunts clause.

[TheHowieLama]

Just now, Chris said:

 

It's quite straightforward really. The focus on re-upping everyone's deals and not bringing everyone in is ahead of a pending rebuild when Klopp leaves. They're not planning for continuity of success. 

In many cases it is about protecting the value of the player as well - a 31 year old Mo Salah will be worth something - and it is more if he has 3 years on his deal as opposed to 1

[Chris]

1 minute ago, 3 Stacks said:

Ok, that makes more sense. 

 

But the last part is very arguable. If you're extending your top players that have won you trophies it stands to reason you're trying to build continuity and sustained success. 

 

Continuity is one thing. 

Continuity of success is another. 

 

This team has already peaked now, let alone in 3/4 years. We won't see better than 97 or 99 points and back to back European Cup finals. From this team. That's just my opinion though. Hope I'm wrong. 

[TheHowieLama]

3 minutes ago, Chris said:

 

Continuity is one thing. 

Continuity of success is another. 

 

This team has already peaked now, let alone in 3/4 years. We won't see better than 97 or 99 points and back to back European Cup finals. From this team. That's just my opinion though. Hope I'm wrong. 

You may not see it again, from any team.

[m0e]

I don't give a fuck what happens when Klopp leaves.

 

I give a fuck about what happens when we need a winner in the next 4 months.

 

I can't believe that we're left with the potential of Klopp ignoring Origi, Minamino, and Oxlade in that time.

 

This is a much on Klopp (the man who sanctioned their contracts or transfers) as it is the committee, and the tight bustards with the cheque book.

 

Having said that, I still think we're definitely challenging for the main 2 trophies this season.

[TheHowieLama]

2 minutes ago, m0e said:

 

Having said that, I still think we're definitely challenging for the main 2 trophies this season.

Be worth it just for the fewmin'.

[Anubis]

Just now, TheHowieLama said:

Be worth it just for the fewmin'.

This is nonsense, Howie. Nobody is saying a fully fit first eleven aren’t capable of challenging.

[TheHowieLama]

3 minutes ago, Anubis said:

This is nonsense, Howie. Nobody is saying a fully fit first eleven aren’t capable of challenging.

Firmino should have been replaced 18 months ago and Mane has forgotten how to play football since Covid.

 

Who are the 3 in midfield in the first choice 11 capable of challenging for the two main trophies?

[El Rojo]

18 minutes ago, m0e said:

I don't give a fuck what happens when Klopp leaves.

 

I give a fuck about what happens when we need a winner in the next 4 months.

 

I can't believe that we're left with the potential of Klopp ignoring Origi, Minamino, and Oxlade in that time.

 

This is a much on Klopp (the man who sanctioned their contracts or transfers) as it is the committee, and the tight bustards with the cheque book.

 

Having said that, I still think we're definitely challenging for the main 2 trophies this season.

A major problem as I see is the lack of real pressure on the established first XI from the bench, particularly in midfield and up front. Over a period of time, this inevitably leads to complacency and coasting even among the best players.

 

Ironically, we’ve now got significant back-up at centre half where we probably need it less if Virgil stays fit. 

[Anubis]

16 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Firmino should have been replaced 18 months ago and Mane has forgotten how to play football since Covid.

 

Who are the 3 in midfield in the first choice 11 capable of challenging for the two main trophies?

Firmino has dropped off but I think Mane has been ok so far this season. Jota has started well.

 

Fab, Hendo, Thiago. Elliot to be used sparingly.

 

Once you get beyond that the drop off begins.

[Harry Squatter]

[m0e]

27 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

A major problem as I see is the lack of real pressure on the established first XI from the bench, particularly in midfield and up front. Over a period of time, this inevitably leads to complacency and coasting even among the best players.

 

Ironically, we’ve now got significant back-up at centre half where we probably need it less if Virgil stays fit. 

I think we've got enough of that now with Jota and Elliott. It's the impact subs we're missing. Probably the hardest buy in football, to be fair.

[Bjornebye]

If anyone wants cheering up with a laugh, Sky Sports have currently got 'Premier League Legends : Paul Ince' on