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manwiththestick

Summer 2021 transfer thread.

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3 hours ago, m0e said:

Ben Davies is set to leave Liverpool to join Championship challengers Sheffield United this summer after going six months without kicking a ball under Jurgen Klopp

 

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/liverpool-ben-davies-sheffield-utd-24566580

 

 

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Poor form there man. Check the link for who reported it first. It's the scum paper.

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1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

it would be a fucking strange outcome of this window if keita got a new contract and the echo are right and athletico or psg come in a pinched henderson. when the initial headline was we just hadn't progressed hendrerson's deal - well he's 2 year away and in his 30's, nothing to see here. but the twist from the echo, plus neil jones putting his boot in on this new keita deal. what a crappy day. 

I'm sure we value Hendo at £50m and we don't have to even think about selling if we don't want to so I can't see him going anywhere.  I expect we'll wait and see if he can get an non- injured run of games together before deciding what to offer on his contract next summer. 

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Our problem is we have too many contracts coming to an end. It's the hallmark of a squad that was put together for a "Klopp project" that is now entering Its 6th year and will take 9. The club is mindful of squad age and can't extend everybody/can't give everybody raises, so you'll have stuff like Gini leaving and these weird Henderson stories, which is probably him feeling disrespected that he's not being offered the big last contract paycheck right away.

 

The Keita new contract thing, as ridiculous as it is, is that he's still young and therefore he still has value. And I'm sure there's people at the club who still have hope for him.

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6 minutes ago, RoyHodgeGone said:

I have been looking at some of the wages of our first teamers and I can't understand them. Nat Phillips is on £64000 per week and Harry Wilson £60000 per week. Eh? These are not new contracts. Now it may be that there is some kind of upward gradient built into the contract but would we really have offered such generous terms to peripheral players? 

What's that based on?

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11 minutes ago, RoyHodgeGone said:

I have been looking at some of the wages of our first teamers and I can't understand them. Nat Phillips is on £64000 per week and Harry Wilson £60000 per week. Eh? These are not new contracts. Now it may be that there is some kind of upward gradient built into the contract but would we really have offered such generous terms to peripheral players? 

Not a go at the poster here but in general it absolutely astounds me how people take for gospel footballers salaries posted on the internet.

 

Nobody apart from the lawyers at the club the player and his agent/lawyers will ever know how a contract is structured much less the exact weekly figure. What it is in terms of appearence fees/base salary etc etc. Its ridiculous

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5 minutes ago, Salou said:

Not a go at the poster here but in general it absolutely astounds me how people take for gospel footballers salaries posted on the internet.

 

Nobody apart from the lawyers at the club the player and his agent/lawyers will ever know how a contract is structured much less the exact weekly figure. What it is in terms of appearence fees/base salary etc etc. Its ridiculous

Perhaps it is inaccurate - I don't know.

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10 minutes ago, Salou said:

Not a go at the poster here but in general it absolutely astounds me how people take for gospel footballers salaries posted on the internet.

 

Nobody apart from the lawyers at the club the player and his agent/lawyers will ever know how a contract is structured much less the exact weekly figure. What it is in terms of appearence fees/base salary etc etc. Its ridiculous

Spot on, and our lawyers are the best. As you'd expect considering they're all on 785k a week.

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9 minutes ago, RoyHodgeGone said:

Perhaps it is inaccurate - I don't know.

like i said, wasn't a go at your post but just the fact that people see a list of salaries on the internet and think its anywhere near reliable. Unless a player does a john arne riise and has his payslip on the internet then nobody knows. He was on 120,000 way back then so some of these inflated salaries since then dont surprise me at all.

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2 hours ago, aws said:

I'm sure we value Hendo at £50m and we don't have to even think about selling if we don't want to so I can't see him going anywhere.  I expect we'll wait and see if he can get an non- injured run of games together before deciding what to offer on his contract next summer. 

Yeah, I'm sure that's the club's point of view. The problem is all personalities are different, some will be like Gini and just carry on, it's a job and he'll do it to the best of his ability, if the contract runs out he'll find himself something else. Others will throw their toys out of the pram and sulk and be a pain around the camp. And others go ok then, if you can't give me the long term I'm looking for now, I'm looking for somewhere I can get it now and start the last chapter elsewhere. If Henderson is in the latter category (and I've no idea if he is) and he feels priced out of a move (and let's be honest, anything like 50m for a 31 year old injury prone player is pricing him out), then I think you will lose something. It seems to me Henderson's biggest asset is it's more than just a job to him, he's passionate about his job and the bits off the field. If we don't get that off him, we've taken away part of what makes Henderson important to the club. It's a difficult balancing act and as we've seen time and again with financial decisions at the club (and I'm not just talking about player deals) they are nearly always made without any emotional intelligence. They might make perfect sense on the balance sheet, but they nearly always struggle when they need to consider the human reaction. 

2 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

Our problem is we have too many contracts coming to an end. It's the hallmark of a squad that was put together for a "Klopp project" that is now entering Its 6th year and will take 9. The club is mindful of squad age and can't extend everybody/can't give everybody raises, so you'll have stuff like Gini leaving and these weird Henderson stories, which is probably him feeling disrespected that he's not being offered the big last contract paycheck right away.

 

The Keita new contract thing, as ridiculous as it is, is that he's still young and therefore he still has value. And I'm sure there's people at the club who still have hope for him.

I would imagine any offer of a contract for keita is financial. It means the clock isn't ticking on him going, so maintains his transfer value and allows us to spread the remaining book value of him over the years of the new contract - so instead of the 10m per year loss (plus 5m wages?), we probably reduce that 10m down to 4m per season over a new 5 year deal, 5m with a 4 year deal. 

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3 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

 

I would imagine any offer of a contract for keita is financial. It means the clock isn't ticking on him going, so maintains his transfer value and allows us to spread the remaining book value of him over the years of the new contract - so instead of the 10m per year loss (plus 5m wages?), we probably reduce that 10m down to 4m per season over a new 5 year deal, 5m with a 4 year deal. 

These contract decisions are all financial. It's why Klopp probably doesn't have ultimate authority of that part of it and someone like Gini leaves even though Klopp would have rather he stayed.

 

Klopp probably just gives his opinion but then stays out of it, which I'm sure has been agreed by all parties beforehand. 

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6 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

These contract decisions are all financial. It's why Klopp probably doesn't have ultimate authority of that part of it and someone like Gini leaves even though Klopp would have rather he stayed.

 

Klopp probably just gives his opinion but then stays out of it, which I'm sure has been agreed by all parties beforehand. 

Players staying or going should be entirely up to the manager, the person who carries the can and of course the player involved. Klopp is pragmatic and I doubt he'd let any player he wants to stay leave unless he was convinced otherwise for whatever reason that its best for the club or player. I think the club would acquiesce if klopp was determined.

 

I know it's pipe dream stuff but we've essentially only got a couple of years left with Klopp I'd love to see him absolutely backed in the market and the club to show ambition while he's here. He himself might not even want any big signings we've no idea but he's performed miracles I dont believe for one second this side wins shit the last few years without the Klopp effect. I dread him going. He must be FSGs absolute wet dream of a manager  turning a tin pot budget into silver.

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15 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Players staying or going should be entirely up to the manager, the person who carries the can and of course the player involved. Klopp is pragmatic and I doubt he'd let any player he wants to stay leave unless he was convinced otherwise for whatever reason that its best for the club or player. I think the club would acquiesce if klopp was determined.

 

I know it's pipe dream stuff but we've essentially only got a couple of years left with Klopp I'd love to see him absolutely backed in the market and the club to show ambition while he's here. He himself might not even want any big signings we've no idea but he's performed miracles I dont believe for one second this side wins shit the last few years without the Klopp effect. I dread him going. He must be FSGs absolute wet dream of a manager  turning a tin pot budget into silver.

I don't think that's how it works in reality. Klopp no doubt has the biggest say on transfers and what types of players he wants to buy, but he can't be given all the authority on contract renewals because those are long term financial and strategic decisions.

 

Klopp can want Wijnaldum to stay from a purely footballing perspective for example, but he has no financial expertise to speak of and he doesn't control the wage bill. Klopp also knows this, that's one of his biggest strengths; he collaborates and let's people do their jobs. I really think he doesn't have the final say on these types of things and that this is a clear agreement.

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3 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

I don't think that's how it works in reality. Klopp no doubt has the biggest say on transfers and what types of players he wants to buy, but he can't be given all the authority on contract renewals because those are long term financial and strategic decisions.

 

Klopp can want Wijnaldum to stay from a purely footballing perspective for example, but he has no financial expertise to speak of and he doesn't control the wage bill. Klopp also knows this, that's one of his biggest strengths; he collaborates and let's people do their jobs. I really think he doesn't have the final say on these types of things and that this is a clear agreement.

I think this is exactly right. Klopp knew the operating model he signed up for and gave it his blessing, of course he will not be happy with some of the decisions made but he's mature enough to know that not all decisions are his. It's how any normal functioning employee/employer relationship should work. 

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Jurgen's working under the same system or as near to it, as that employed in his time at Dortmund or most European clubs.

 

He's not 'manager' in the strict 'English sense' that our previous managers had been. Im pretty sure he's comfortable the way the club is run. He keeps saying the owners are 'good guys.' He's looking at that model as being one he's familiar with and that operates probably in most of Europe.

 

 

 

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Reading some of the stuff coming out now it seems like it was Hendo's agents leaking all this. 

If he isn't offered a new deal where he gets the money he thinks he is worth then he wants to leave now as at 31 he needs his last contract sorted. Just sounds like he wants similar money to top earners, and to be honest im not sure how that can be justified. He has played over 30 league games twice in the last 6 years and only over 32 once. he hasn't played over 45 games combined since 2014/15. As important as he is i'm not sure how you can give him them sort of wages when he is injured as often as he is. He has been a great player and captain for the past few years but the wage bill has gone through the roof and will do even more with some new deals for big players and the squads age is getting far to high and needs refreshed. The sad thing is this will be the last 2 years of Klopp and could easily be pissed up the wall with squad issues

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1 hour ago, 3 Stacks said:

These contract decisions are all financial. It's why Klopp probably doesn't have ultimate authority of that part of it and someone like Gini leaves even though Klopp would have rather he stayed.

 

Klopp probably just gives his opinion but then stays out of it, which I'm sure has been agreed by all parties beforehand. 

I don't dispute this is likely out of klopps control. As I said in the other post, it seems all financial decisions we take are based purely on the outcome of the balance sheet. It doesn't make it right though, because there is a human consequence to their actions, which has even greater significance when the player in question is the captain. None of us know the financials terms that have been offered, but if @Lee909 is correct and this is coming from Henderson's camp, well we've managed something badly. Even if it is a question of Henderson is asking too much (and I for one think the idea giving him a big contract at this point is too big a risk), you've got to try and manage things better. There are some players who are exceptions to the rule, you can't treat them all with "if you don't like it, tough shit, the spreadsheet said no". Klopp's job is hard enough without his captain ending up disengaged. 

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35 minutes ago, Lee909 said:

Reading some of the stuff coming out now it seems like it was Hendo's agents leaking all this. 

If he isn't offered a new deal where he gets the money he thinks he is worth then he wants to leave now as at 31 he needs his last contract sorted. Just sounds like he wants similar money to top earners, and to be honest im not sure how that can be justified. He has played over 30 league games twice in the last 6 years and only over 32 once. he hasn't played over 45 games combined since 2014/15. As important as he is i'm not sure how you can give him them sort of wages when he is injured as often as he is. He has been a great player and captain for the past few years but the wage bill has gone through the roof and will do even more with some new deals for big players and the squads age is getting far to high and needs refreshed. The sad thing is this will be the last 2 years of Klopp and could easily be pissed up the wall with squad issues

Agree, sounds like an agent trying to maximize his final big contract.  Good luck to him, he'll need it if he's going up against Michael Edwards.

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Injuries will stop him getting a huge new contract as will age as has been mentioned. Any top midfielder coming in and it’s likely his place will be up for grabs. Let him run his contract down if it has to be.

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2 hours ago, Bad Red Bull said:

Poor form there man. Check the link for who reported it first. It's the scum paper.

Where it came from has literally nothing to do with the post.

 

And you can tell from the link where it came from, so to click on it would make you as stupid as those who read it.

 

If you didn't click on it, then stop moaning about nothing.

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Whatever is happening with Henderson, the optics of this aren't good. Gini spoke about problems behind the scenes, and it sounds like we are trying to do the same as we did with him with Henderson. We have got around 9 to 10 players with only 2 years or less left on their contract and they are going to start getting pissed off if they feel that we won't offer them what they want. 

 

Its all very well allowing players to leave at the end of their contract like we did with Gini and Can but eventually you are going to end up with a team full of pissed off players that are not going to be fully committed.  

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