Summer 2021 transfer thread.

[Barrington Womble]

13 minutes ago, SlugTrail said:

 

i think you missed Baz's point, yes we paid money for those players but since the CL win we have been reluctant to put our hands in our pockets for signings, do you think we would have signed Jota if wolves had even asked for half the fee upfront. 

 

We need to start looking for the best players to fit our team and system first, as Barry states the first category we look at in searches are "Free agent" , "1 year remaining on contract" or "low release clause" then it seems this year we added "club will accept 10% deposit".

 

There is a massive pool of talent that we miss out on because of these restrictions.

I think @aRdja is deliberately missing the point. But I think I've made mine clearly and don't really feel the need to reiterate again. We've been through that "but what about vvd" argument loads of time. It's been discussed loads of times. And people conveniently forget that only happens because we flog coutinho. These owners have always been happy to spend in that situation. Torres out, Suarez and Carrol in. Sterling out, firmino in. Suarez out, several bags of shite in. Coutinho out alisson and vvd in. 

[Scott_M]

22 minutes ago, SlugTrail said:

 

i think you missed Baz's point, yes we paid money for those players but since the CL win we have been reluctant to put our hands in our pockets for signings, do you think we would have signed Jota if wolves had even asked for half the fee upfront. 

 

We need to start looking for the best players to fit our team and system first, as Barry states the first category we look at in searches are "Free agent" , "1 year remaining on contract" or "low release clause" then it seems this year we added "club will accept 10% deposit".

 

There is a massive pool of talent that we miss out on because of these restrictions.

If we can get good players, who fit our systems, for lower prices, doesn’t that make sense?  

 

Given we’re missing out on players, can we have some examples of players we think would fit our system, who’ve moved to other clubs, who we think would have improved us since June’19 please?

 

To say we shouldn't have signing Shaq or Minamino because we, the common supporter, didn’t see wear they would fit in is irrelevant. People inside the club, who are paid significant amounts of money to do this on a daily basis, obviously did.

 

I’m fed up reading we didn’t strengthen after winning the CL. We didn’t because the club obviously felt we didn’t need to. I’d have liked an understudy to Robbo & a decent back up striker that summer, but we didn’t and the club went on to a record 99 point, title winning campaign.

Signing Thiago was, on paper, a great move. Jota thus far has exceeded expectations. Isn’t that the whole proof what we are doing works?

 

What we have rather had happened? We signed Werner instead of Jota, as per the original plan? 

 

I’m obviously as disappointed as the next supporter at how things have gone this season, but continually dragging things up from the past is just pointless.
 

We can say “It was obvious we’d be short at the back this season” but even if we’d have replaced Lovren, we’d still have been short at the back. IMO, yes, we’ve not helped ourselves this season, but we’ve also had a perfect shit storm reign down on us. Finish as strong as we can, prepare for next season (which we already look to be doing). 

 

Facts are, whether we agree with the club or not, we’ve achieved everything we ever wanted over the past few seasons. 

[Scott_M]

3 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I think @aRdja is deliberately missing the point. But I think I've made mine clearly and don't really feel the need to reiterate again. We've been through that "but what about vvd" argument loads of time. It's been discussed loads of times. And people conveniently forget that only happens because we flog coutinho. These owners have always been happy to spend in that situation. Torres out, Suarez and Carrol in. Sterling out, firmino in. Suarez out, several bags of shite in. Coutinho out alisson and vvd in. 

I don’t think Ardja deliberately misses the point, like me, I think he wants to understand what more people want?

[SlugTrail]

4 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

If we can get good players, who fit our systems, for lower prices, doesn’t that make sense?  

 

Given we’re missing out on players, can we have some examples of players we think would fit our system, who’ve moved to other clubs, who we think would have improved us since June’19 please?

 

To say we shouldn't have signing Shaq or Minamino because we, the common supporter, didn’t see wear they would fit in is irrelevant. People inside the club, who are paid significant amounts of money to do this on a daily basis, obviously did.

 

I’m fed up reading we didn’t strengthen after winning the CL. We didn’t because the club obviously felt we didn’t need to. I’d have liked an understudy to Robbo & a decent back up striker that summer, but we didn’t and the club went on to a record 99 point, title winning campaign.

Signing Thiago was, on paper, a great move. Jota thus far has exceeded expectations. Isn’t that the whole proof what we are doing works?

 

What we have rather had happened? We signed Werner instead of Jota, as per the original plan? 

 

I’m obviously as disappointed as the next supporter at how things have gone this season, but continually dragging things up from the past is just pointless.
 

We can say “It was obvious we’d be short at the back this season” but even if we’d have replaced Lovren, we’d still have been short at the back. IMO, yes, we’ve not helped ourselves this season, but we’ve also had a perfect shit storm reign down on us. Finish as strong as we can, prepare for next season (which we already look to be doing). 

 

Facts are, whether we agree with the club or not, we’ve achieved everything we ever wanted over the past few seasons. 

For all the planning that has gone in here we are with the core of our team approaching 30, I dont sit and track players from all over the world but are you telling me that through all the big leagues there have been no players sold for a reasonable price that could have come in and been acceptable understudy who could potentially work their way into the first team. 

 

I'm not saying we should have sacked off all our old and crocked players im saying a team has to continually evolve and plan for the next phase of players to come through. 

 

What Barry was saying and I agree with is if all you are looking at is the bargain basement unless you sell a major asset then you are omitting about 80% of the player pool out there, and no not all of them will be right for us.

 

[Barrington Womble]

7 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

I don’t think Ardja deliberately misses the point, like me, I think he wants to understand what more people want?

I don't know what there is to understand. If you can't work it out from those posts I've done the size of war and peace it's because you don't want to understand what it is saying. But I know you don't want to believe we do anything wrong, that's what you're like. So you just ignore it and shout "what about vvd" - missing the point that look what happens when you buy the player and not the commercial deal. 

[Colonel Bumcunt]

The Haaland thing, can help but think it's a pitch for the following season, not this summer.

But he's agreed to hear it, so perhaps he's contemplating another season at Dortmund.  After all, he's not played in front fans for them yet, maybe he feels he needs to do that. 

[El Rojo]

15 minutes ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

The Haaland thing, can help but think it's a pitch for the following season, not this summer.

But he's agreed to hear it, so perhaps he's contemplating another season at Dortmund.  After all, he's not played in front fans for them yet, maybe he feels he needs to do that. 

Doesn't he have a much lower buy-out next summer? If Dortmund have any sense, they'll be cashing in on him now. Bonus for us if he ends up in Spain, though I can't see them competing with Manchester City. Used correctly, he'd be as unplayable in England as he's looked at Dortmund. 

[Scott_M]

30 minutes ago, SlugTrail said:

For all the planning that has gone in here we are with the core of our team approaching 30, I dont sit and track players from all over the world but are you telling me that through all the big leagues there have been no players sold for a reasonable price that could have come in and been acceptable understudy who could potentially work their way into the first team. 

You mean like Jota? 
 

I know the squads needs a refresh and to start to look to the future, but this side isn’t done yet either.

[Scott_M]

13 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

Doesn't he have a much lower buy-out next summer? If Dortmund have any sense, they'll be cashing in on him now. Bonus for us if he ends up in Spain, though I can't see them competing with Manchester City. Used correctly, he'd be as unplayable in England as he's looked at Dortmund. 

£65m next summer. 
 

Riola and Guardiola don’t get on, so will be interesting if anything happens there.

 

Alternatively, given Citeh’s top 2 targets are apparently Haaland (who the play next week) and Kane (who the play in Cup Final in 3 weeks) it could just be a massive coincidence. 

[Pidge]

3 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

£65m next summer. 
 

Riola and Guardiola don’t get on, so will be interesting if anything happens there.

 

Alternatively, given Citeh’s top 2 targets are apparently Haaland (who the play next week) and Spurs (who the play in Cup Final in 3 weeks) it could just be a massive coincidence. 

Had to go check this. Had no idea. Guess during the last round we were at our worst and I was avoiding football as much as possible.

 

Good for them, hope they win.

[aRdja]

3 hours ago, SlugTrail said:

 

i think you missed Baz's point, yes we paid money for those players but since the CL win we have been reluctant to put our hands in our pockets for signings, do you think we would have signed Jota if wolves had even asked for half the fee upfront. 

 

We need to start looking for the best players to fit our team and system first, as Barry states the first category we look at in searches are "Free agent" , "1 year remaining on contract" or "low release clause" then it seems this year we added "club will accept 10% deposit".

 

There is a massive pool of talent that we miss out on because of these restrictions.

I don’t think I have, with all due respect, I think he’s just lacking a bit of nuance. We needed a defensive midfielder and we got ourselves Fabinho. We needed a decent goalkeeper and we got ourselves Alisson. What talent pool did we miss out on because of these supposed restrictions?

 

Fabinho, Keita, Alisson, Salah, Mane don’t fit in the categories you’ve mentioned above. Notice how I’ve excluded Van Dijk to help your argument.

[Scott_M]

2 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

I don't know what there is to understand. If you can't work it out from those posts I've done the size of war and peace it's because you don't want to understand what it is saying. But I know you don't want to believe we do anything wrong, that's what you're like. So you just ignore it and shout "what about vvd" - missing the point that look what happens when you buy the player and not the commercial deal. 

Ok, so I’ve whittled it down to...

 

1) Wants us to be self sufficient but not sell to buy.

 

2) Wants a successful team but be able to complain when we have one.

 

3) Wants to buy more expensive players but be able to complain when we’re linked with them.

 

4) Wants us to negotiate more but be able to complain when we find “value”.

 

Gotcha.

 

[Megadrive Man]

The only way we'd be in with a chance of Haaland is if we were selling Salah or Mane.

 

If he leaves this summer it will be for £100 million plus, so only really City, Chelsea and possibly United would be in for him? I don't think that Real Madrid or Barcelona have that sort of money. 

 

Our best hope is that he stays at Dortmund for another 12 months. 

[Scott_M]

4 minutes ago, aRdja said:

What talent pool did we miss out on because of these supposed restrictions?

I think it’s because our 22 man squad doesn’t contain the 1st and 2nd best player, in every position, ever.

 

Having one of the best goal keepers, right backs, left backs (another punt signing), centre back, defensive midfielders & front 3 attackers in the world and backing them up with a range of world class and international class players  isn’t enough. 

[No2]

3 hours ago, SlugTrail said:

 

i think you missed Baz's point, yes we paid money for those players but since the CL win we have been reluctant to put our hands in our pockets for signings, do you think we would have signed Jota if wolves had even asked for half the fee upfront. 

 

We need to start looking for the best players to fit our team and system first, as Barry states the first category we look at in searches are "Free agent" , "1 year remaining on contract" or "low release clause" then it seems this year we added "club will accept 10% deposit".

 

There is a massive pool of talent that we miss out on because of these restrictions.

I really don't think the structure has that much to do with the deal, Wolves where getting £40m spread out over 4 years, we where paying £40m spread out over 4 years. At the end of the day £40m is going from us to them, it may suit us to pay less up front, it may suit them to receive less, its all just accountancy. Like all deals (unless one club is fucked financially), what ever solution is best suited to both parties will be the one agreed.  If Wolves wanted 50% upfront then it may not have happened, that's only a bad thing if 50% is the norm, if most deals are structured over 4 years then 50% is an unreasonable ask for a normal club.

 

 

[Bjornebye]

3 hours ago, Scott_M said:

What we have rather had happened? We signed Werner instead of Jota, as per the original plan? 

 

 

 

[Barrington Womble]

3 hours ago, SlugTrail said:

For all the planning that has gone in here we are with the core of our team approaching 30, I dont sit and track players from all over the world but are you telling me that through all the big leagues there have been no players sold for a reasonable price that could have come in and been acceptable understudy who could potentially work their way into the first team. 

 

I'm not saying we should have sacked off all our old and crocked players im saying a team has to continually evolve and plan for the next phase of players to come through. 

 

What Barry was saying and I agree with is if all you are looking at is the bargain basement unless you sell a major asset then you are omitting about 80% of the player pool out there, and no not all of them will be right for us.

 

It wasn't so very long ago we were being told part of the reason we weren't buying was because of how difficult it is to find players who can come in and make a difference at the European champions. My opinion is that's a whole lot fucking harder if you restrict the pool of players you are searching in.

 

People scratch their heads on wonder where the likes of minamino and Shaq get their games, where they fit in how we play. Well maybe their ability to fit in wasn't seen as useful as how much they cost and what we can flip them for if it doesn't work out. It's sounds really good when you say "we can buy him and if he doesn't work sell him at a profit". Win, win some might say. Or perhaps you like to count wins on the pitch like I do, it's lose, lose. If they're on the books, taking a wage and using a place in the squad and then are unable to offer you anything on the pitch - how does that benefit me as a fan? I see how it benefits the owners. You drop points because you have the wrong players. Too many of our fans have been fucking brainwashed that this is all about making a penny for fsg. It's a sport. We need to win on the pitch. Frankly, nothing else matters. 

50 minutes ago, Scott_M said:

Ok, so I’ve whittled it down to...

 

1) Wants us to be self sufficient but not sell to buy.

 

2) Wants a successful team but be able to complain when we have one.

 

3) Wants to buy more expensive players but be able to complain when we’re linked with them.

 

4) Wants us to negotiate more but be able to complain when we find “value”.

 

Gotcha.

 

You really are a fucking child. I could respond to that, but it's like talking to my 10 year old. She says I'm a grumpy old man when I ask her to tidy her bedroom. You resort to the same stupid shit as soon as you are asked to consider you support a fucking bunch of private equity investors rather than a football team. 

[LFC 6 Times]

Depay on paper would be a good signing, very versatile and can play across the front line. Is he as big a cunt as he looks though? That would be my biggest concern.

[SlugTrail]

1 hour ago, aRdja said:

I don’t think I have, with all due respect, I think he’s just lacking a bit of nuance. We needed a defensive midfielder and we got ourselves Fabinho. We needed a decent goalkeeper and we got ourselves Alisson. What talent pool did we miss out on because of these supposed restrictions?

 

Fabinho, Keita, Alisson, Salah, Mane don’t fit in the categories you’ve mentioned above. Notice how I’ve excluded Van Dijk to help your argument.

And all of these were signed after we won the CL yes, as stated SINCE we won the CL we have been shopping in the bargain basement, we wouldn't have signed alisson without selling coutinho and keita had a release clause which was supposedly below his true value. Fabinho was an absolute steal as he was regarded as one of the very best in his position.

[SlugTrail]

54 minutes ago, No2 said:

I really don't think the structure has that much to do with the deal, Wolves where getting £40m spread out over 4 years, we where paying £40m spread out over 4 years. At the end of the day £40m is going from us to them, it may suit us to pay less up front, it may suit them to receive less, its all just accountancy. Like all deals (unless one club is fucked financially), what ever solution is best suited to both parties will be the one agreed.  If Wolves wanted 50% upfront then it may not have happened, that's only a bad thing if 50% is the norm, if most deals are structured over 4 years then 50% is an unreasonable ask for a normal club.

 

 

Cash flow plays a big part in it all though, if wolves had asked for half upfront and the rest spread over the next 2 years we would probably walked away.

[SlugTrail]

25 minutes ago, LFC 6 Times said:

Depay on paper would be a good signing, very versatile and can play across the front line. Is he as big a cunt as he looks though? That would be my biggest concern.

From what has been reported yes.

[No2]

19 minutes ago, SlugTrail said:

Cash flow plays a big part in it all though, if wolves had asked for half upfront and the rest spread over the next 2 years we would probably walked away.

Cash flow plays a part, of course it does but how much of a part is my question? If Wolves wanted 20m in year 1 and we were only prepared to give 10m then if we really wanted the player we borrow the other 10m and take it from next years budget, probably pay 1m in interest for the 10m, haggle that off the cost and bobs your uncle. If they wanted 75% we probably tell them to fuck off as that type of request is probably the same as he's not for sale.

 

My point is unless the selling club is being totally unreasonable then the structure won't end any deal. Wolves had clearly earmarked Neto as Jota's replacement, we knew that and took advantage of it.

[Scott_M]

51 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:. 

You really are a fucking child. I could respond to that, but it's like talking to my 10 year old. She says I'm a grumpy old man when I ask her to tidy her bedroom. You resort to the same stupid shit as soon as you are asked to consider you support a fucking bunch of private equity investors rather than a football team. 

 

Yes. Pre-2010, I’d had 17 years as a season ticket holder but I used to just go all over the country and Europe follow us for shits and giggles. 

 

You drag them into every conversation possible and attempt to have a dig at them at every occasion.

 

”We’re too lazy to negotiate”. Your exact words, and frankly, complete utter dog shit.

Yes, they have faults, as I’ve clearly said in the past. I defend them when your talking complete bollocks. You de-rail virtually every thread with snidey / nonsense comments like the above. 
 

I only care about what’s on the pitch and the last 3 / 4 years have been the best of my Liverpool supporting life. Like it or not, they’ve been a small part in delivering that and to me, apart from the ticket price and furlough fiasco’s, pretty much everything else is just white noise. 

[3 Stacks]

Is the sticking point for the "we look in the bargain bucket" thing really that we bought Minamino and Shaqiri? So, two signings amongst a raft of players we paid between 25m-75m for? Good stuff. By the way, we have a higher transfer record than City do. They operate in the same "we have a maximum value of transfer fee we're willing to pay" space that we do, they just have unlimited money to buy as many of those players in that price range as they want. The smartest clubs all operate in that way. Us, City, Bayern. There's no overpaying. There's a value they put on players. 

 

 

[El Dangerous]

What’s the situation with Odegaard and Arsenal? Do they have a deal in place or is there any chance we could #swoop? If Gini is insisting on fucking off then maybe we can look at a midfielder who offers us something different. I know he’s more of a number ten but I’m sure Kloppo could make him an effective no8 with Hendo and Fabinho. Maybe in a midfield 3 with Thiago and Fabinho sitting deeper. Would work great in Europe.

 

There was an article in The Echo about how clever we are to let Arsenal test drive him for us a few weeks ago so I’m guessing he’s not tied in to any deal.