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Holocaust memorial day

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2 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

The existence of Israel does not prevent genocide.

 

A nation having its own state is inarguably a bulwark against genocide. There are at least two genocides ongoing at present, of Darfuris in Sudan and Rohingya in Burma, and you could perhaps add a third, of the Uyghurs in China. Three peoples who lack a homeland where they can be safe. If you look at genocides throughout history, so many of them were of peoples who were vulnerable because they did not have the security of their own country.

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3 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

It would be nice if we could remember the 6 million killed this year without the need to talk about Israel or score points. 

 

Come on, it wouldn't be a proper Holocaust Memorial Day if I wasn't negged for defending the existence of a nation of Holocaust survivors.

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7 minutes ago, Strontium said:

 

A nation having its own state is inarguably a bulwark against genocide. There are at least two genocides ongoing at present, of Darfuris in Sudan and Rohingya in Burma, and you could perhaps add a third, of the Uyghurs in China. Three peoples who lack a homeland where they can be safe. If you look at genocides throughout history, so many of them were of peoples who were vulnerable because they did not have the security of their own country.

I was being inappropriately pendantic. The point I was trying to make is that people of different ethnicities, religions, etc. can and do live in each other's countries without fear of genocide. There's no need to carve the world up into ethnic/religious homelands: people just need to stop being cunts to each other.

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8 minutes ago, Strontium said:

 

Come on, it wouldn't be a proper Holocaust Memorial Day if I wasn't negged for defending the existence of a nation of Holocaust survivors.

Your false accusations of anti-Semitism were profoundly out of place last year; please don't dig them up again.

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1 minute ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

I was being inappropriately pendantic. The point I was trying to make is that people of different ethnicities, religions, etc. can and do live in each other's countries without fear of genocide. There's no need to carve the world up into ethnic/religious homelands: people just need to stop being cunts to each other.

 

SOME people of SOME ethnicities in SOME countries can live relatively free from the fear of genocide. Stop pretending that everyone is living under the same risk. You cannot possibly understand it, because of your white privilege.

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7 minutes ago, Strontium said:

If you look at genocides throughout history, so many of them were of peoples who were vulnerable because they did not have the security of their own country.

Armenia, Rwanda, Bosnia, Cambodia - those happened in their own countries.

 

12 minutes ago, Strontium said:

 

SOME people of SOME ethnicities in SOME countries can live relatively free from the fear of genocide. Stop pretending that everyone is living under the same risk. You cannot possibly understand it, because of your white privilege.

 

TBF most people of most ethnicities in most countries live relatively free from fear of genocide.

 

That last line is a doozy.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Strontium said:

 

A nation having its own state is inarguably a bulwark against genocide. There are at least two genocides ongoing at present, of Darfuris in Sudan and Rohingya in Burma, and you could perhaps add a third, of the Uyghurs in China. Three peoples who lack a homeland where they can be safe. If you look at genocides throughout history, so many of them were of peoples who were vulnerable because they did not have the security of their own country.

Virtually all of the victims of the Holocaust apart from the Dutch and French died in their own country and often killed by their fellow countrymen. Anyway this is day of remembering those dead not arguing about Israel

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I went to Warsaw for work a while back, some time in late February. I had a free afternoon so set off in search of the ghetto. Of course it was demolished by the Germans after the uprising then rebuilt after the war so hardly any of it now remains. I eventually found a fragment of a very tall brick wall (12 feet plus) that had been preserved in the car park of a block of flats. Relatives of the dead had come from all over the world and left candles, notes, flowers etc and reading the notes and seeing those candles flickering in the early evening gloom and snow was one of the most profound moments of my life. 

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Got this today - any interest and I can post her essay.

 

Dear Weitzman NMAJH Friend,
 
I have been doing a lot of thinking during the past two weeks since the Congregation Beth Israel hostage situation in Colleyville, Texas. Thinking about antisemitism. Thinking about how here at the Museum where we explore American Jewish history we know we are living in a time without historic precedent. That the antisemitism happening today in so many different forms and from all directions is unlike anything this country has seen before.
 
Today, on International Holocaust Remembrance Day, I want to share my further reflections with you. Please see below for a personal essay.
 
I hope you'll join me in taking a moment of silence for the eleven million souls lost to Nazism during the Holocaust, and contemplate how quickly hate and othering can turn to genocide.
 
Wishing you and your loved ones peace and health.
 
Yours,
b74d8171-ab61-46d4-8ac4-a1b4ad2cce21.jpg

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My final thought on this day. Something  that is not often discussed is that the Holocaust in the eastern occupied territories was mainly carried out by soldiers shooting civilians. 1.5 million people were shot and according to most witness accounts, mainly by a single shot from a soldier standing close to their victim. This was not the mechanised arms length killing of the gas chambers, this was normal German soldiers aged maybe 19 or 20 shooting 100s of women, children and babies in the head at close range and doing this all day, every day for months maybe years. There was a bar in krakow where the SS drank whilst on leave and they put plaques up to celebrate anyone  who had shot 500 or even a 1,000 victims. Everything about the Holocaust is almost unbelievable but what happened in the occupied eastern territories is probably the worst for me. 

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3 hours ago, Captain Willard said:

Anyway this is day of remembering those dead not arguing about Israel

This. 

 

The point of remembering is learning to recognise the conditions that make genocide possible and how we can prevent those conditions in our own societies.

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33 minutes ago, Captain Willard said:

My final thought on this day. Something  that is not often discussed is that the Holocaust in the eastern occupied territories was mainly carried out by soldiers shooting civilians. 1.5 million people were shot and according to most witness accounts, mainly by a single shot from a soldier standing close to their victim. This was not the mechanised arms length killing of the gas chambers, this was normal German soldiers aged maybe 19 or 20 shooting 100s of women, children and babies in the head at close range and doing this all day, every day for months maybe years. There was a bar in krakow where the SS drank whilst on leave and they put plaques up to celebrate anyone  who had shot 500 or even a 1,000 victims. Everything about the Holocaust is almost unbelievable but what happened in the occupied eastern territories is probably the worst for me. 

Thirty-three thousand people murdered in two days in Kiev. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babi_Yar 

 

 

The horror and tragedy of it all is too much to contemplate.

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The World at War episode Genocide has to be one of the most sobering hour's in TV history. It was the only episode in the whole series to be broadcast without an advertisement break. 

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On 27/01/2021 at 13:22, Bjornebye said:

It's incomprehensible. Beyond evil. What is also very scary is that this only happened 75/80 years ago. One of them things that you can't think too hard about because you'll just crumble but must never ever be forgotten. 

When I was growing up (and I'm guessing the same for most on this site) it was only 40 years. There were still signs of bomb damage in Liverpool (old bomb sites that had never been rebuilt, for example) and plenty of older people about who had lived through the war (my grandparents and great grandad). The war was still a tangible thing, really. 

 

My dad used to watch the World at War and the music would terrify me! 

 

I wonder how younger people (say, under 25ish) contextualise it these days without those direct relationships or impacts. Do they see it as black and white ancient history, I wonder? 

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59 minutes ago, johnsusername said:

The World at War episode Genocide has to be one of the most sobering hour's in TV history. It was the only episode in the whole series to be broadcast without an advertisement break. 

Is that the one were it showed them jumping out the wagon and made to run towards where they were to be shot? Looking down on previous victims fuckin ' hell it must of been unimaginable horror, Lithuanians were the executors i think in that dreadful episode, if the same one? I cant remember the bastards name who was in charge of a particlar prison camp, a real brutal looking bastard too. 

I believe there was cases that even German soldiers where finding it difficult to carry out these killings day in day out so thats when they got Lithuanians to do it, not sure if they were Eastern European Jews. Grim. 

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