Poverty in the UK

[Creator Supreme]

I was having a conversation a while back with somebody who is perfectly sensible and intelligent normally. I mentioned that I admired Marcus Rashford for his work outside of football, the reply? "Well if these people didn't waste ther money on fags and booze they'd be able to feed and clothe their kids!"

 

End of conversation!

[Section_31]

38 minutes ago, Creator Supreme said:

I was having a conversation a while back with somebody who is perfectly sensible and intelligent normally. I mentioned that I admired Marcus Rashford for his work outside of football, the reply? "Well if these people didn't waste ther money on fags and booze they'd be able to feed and clothe their kids!"

 

End of conversation!

Bird I used to knock around with used to love watching all those benefits Britain and benefits by the sea programmes but when she was off work with stress her dad (a GP) paid her mortgage for her and her mum signed three properties they owned over to her and her sister to avoid inheritance tax because 'inheritance tax was theft'.

 

She actually made me briefly impotent because I started to hate her. There is no such thing as a hate shag, they don't work.

 

[Creator Supreme]

2 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Bird I used to knock around with used to love watching all those benefits Britain and benefits by the sea programmes but when she was off work with stress her dad (a GP) paid her mortgage for her and her mum signed three properties they owned over to her and her sister to avoid inheritance tax because 'inheritance tax was theft'.

 

She actually made me briefly impotent because I started to hate her. There is no such thing as a hate shag, they don't work.

 

You're braver than I, I'd rather stick my dick in a meteor.

[melons]

22 hours ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

I don't know what person to shout at anymore.

 

My work in the UK means I'm front line on a lot of this shit and you have poverty and suffering on a Dickensian scale and cuts are getting deeper and deeper, and crueler and crueler and the support, and networks, are being removed with an almost glee like fervour.

 

The country turned a corner years back and we ain't getting back to a place where compassion, community and care are central to anything anytime soon.

 

Without doing the woe is me shit I grew up in abject poverty, raised on a rough as shit council estate, on an inadequate state pension by a single (grand)mother, who had worked her hands raw to provide for he kids arm free he husband died in his early thirties. We literally had fuck all, always hiding from Monday man, shaking myself to sleep in the cold and skipping meals. My first line on my Cambridge application was genuinely 'It was toast again for dinner for the third night on the trot, but today was different, we had no margarine. At this point I knew there was something wrong with the world and I need to be part of a change' and I know that many, many more have it far worse than I had now.

 

How the fuck can it be worse than a family half starving themselves and hiding from debt collectors, but it is.

 

The shit I saw on a day to day was genuinely soul destroying, fathers crying as you hand them a food parcle, families cheering you as you come up the drive with, barely, a few days worth of stuff.

 

And the above will be considered good times.

 

Fuck me, stop this bullshit, I need to get off. 

 

This, but you get the same fucking reject boomers harping on that when they were growing up and had ice on the inside of their windows like it was a fucking badge of honour. Seriously, they're revelling in the fact others are going to have to go to bed cold - they're forgetting it's those that are a decade or two older than them, it's kids, it's anyone who is going to feel the bite on the arse from the energy prices. Why revel in it? Why aren't we moving forward as a society, it's soon to be 2022 and people are going to bed cold and hungry. Fuck this fucking shit hole tory cunting government. 

21 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

Is part of the issue that so much poverty is hidden?

 

Let me qualify that. I just checked the UK indices of deprivation 2015 and apparently my area is in the 2% most deprived in England. I never would have known that unless I checked. Cars I've seen parked in the street include MGs, Mazdas and Porsches. Someone a few doors down has a Jaguar. I popped to the Tesco round the corner today and they had a £7 bottle of apple cider vinegar; who is buying this stuff? The poor?

 

If I can't see poverty, and I live in one of the 700 (out of nearly 33,000) most deprived neighbourhoods in the country, then what chance does someone in the more prosperous parts of the country - where I assume they have even more Jag-driving, seven quid vinegar-swigging denizens - have?

You're on about kids being dressed and their faces washed before going to school hungry? Because you can't see whats inside those letters of final demands for payments? 

What exactly do you mean Stronts? Because you can't see it it isn't real? 

7 hours ago, No2 said:

Everyone knows that, you're the only one that consistently bites. A thread on poverty is tory heaven for him, don't engage with him.

Yeah, soz, too tempting no matter what. 

5 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I don't really see clunkers that often any more. It's not like the 80s where every other person drove an Austin Allegro or similar crapmobile.

 

 

Keep on building those strawmen.

Think about it - how many of those clunkers were maintained by those that own them? How many dads that were in school in the 70s did a mechanics type course? How have cars moved on in terms of maintenance? Do you own the equipment to maintain your car? Can you maintain your car or are you forking out shit loads of money to a garage to maintain that banger you must own (I mean you've said enough times you're on a shit wage so you clearly aren't driving any of these posh ones you're on about)? I ask, because many actually find it cheaper to maintain a newer car on finance than buy an older one out right and have huge maintenance bills. 

 

You know what does my head in, you're not a thick cunt. You just like to make out that because you can't see it, it isn't real, isn't happening and you'll argue that point. Look at the wider picture or get some new fucking glasses, even milk bottles would improve your vision. 

2 hours ago, Section_31 said:

 

 

There's a self congratulatory tone to a lot of people who aren't utterly broke, that they work hard and others don't, yet dig beneath the surface and see the housing deposit they got from mum and dad, or the half decent school they went to where they could concentrate on their work, rather than not getting their heads kicked in.

 

Ha, thats my inlaws right there. Had to manage on the dole for 3 months after leaving uni... yeah while living at home and paying no keep. Thats totally relative to a single mum in Rhyl trying to manage her UC whilst working part time cleaning jobs. 

2 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I didn't know anyone who had it for a long time. Then I knew a few who did. Still don't know anyone who died from it, like.

 

You're a lucky bastard, then.  

[TheHowieLama]

Imagine how liberating it is to live in the poorest section and not even know it. Freedom Day.

[Strontium]

1 hour ago, melons said:

What exactly do you mean Stronts? Because you can't see it it isn't real? 

 

Where did I say that? All I said was that you can't fully appreciate poverty if you can't see it.

 

You know what does my head in, you're not a thick cunt. You just like to make out that because you can't see it, it isn't real, isn't happening and you'll argue that point.

 

I really love it when people tell me what my points will be. Or you know, you could just read the points I've actually made instead of concocting things.

[TheHowieLama]

I genuinely want you to get your point across - to me it seems your point is one of three things:

 

1. Because you can't see it, the level of poverty is vastly overstated by these studies for unknown reasons.

2. Because you can't see it it doesn't exist.

3. You can see it but you are claiming otherwise for unknown reasons.

 

I will (EDIT) and add a fourth.

4. You can see nice cars anywhere.

 

We both know that this is not at all what you were suggesting but it will give you a nice out and you can pretend this never happened.

 

 

Let's start with the premise that it is either present or it is not in the couple square miles you have defined?

 

What say you? Y/N.

[Strontium]

14 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

I genuinely want you to get your point across - to me it seems your point is one of three things:

 

1. Because you can't see it, the level of poverty is vastly overstated by these studies for unknown reasons.

2. Because you can't see it it doesn't exist.

3. You can see it but you are claiming otherwise for unknown reasons.

 

It's genuinely incredible when I can clearly make a point and you can't seem to grasp it, even offering up three "possibilities", not one of which remotely resembles the point I actually made.

 

My - extremely explicit - assertion was that poverty is increasingly hidden from view, making it more difficult for people to fully appreciate its scope.

 

Goodness knows what is controversial about that, but I'm sure I'll once again have a queue of people telling me how wrong I am to say that poverty doesn't exist, even though I didn't actually say that or anything like it.

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

My - extremely explicit - assertion was that poverty is increasingly hidden from view, making it more difficult for people to fully appreciate its scope.

 

You couldn’t be more wrong. 

[TheHowieLama]

11 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

My - extremely explicit - assertion was that poverty is increasingly hidden from view, making it more difficult for people to fully appreciate its scope.

 

This is good, agreed. And tbf you threw in the luxury car part - seemed agendy.

Will follow up here - no gotcha, no reveal - 

 

How has it become increasingly hidden from view?

What could/should any government and paid media do to make it easier to appreciate?  If anything.

[TheHowieLama]

4 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

You couldn’t be more wrong. 

Why? I am not sure I disagree. I have known families and learned of their struggles and would never have imagined.

[Strontium]

5 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

You couldn’t be more wrong. 

 

All I can say is that your experience obviously differs from mine, which is that poverty was much more visible in the past.

 

4 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

How has it become increasingly hidden from view?

What could/should any government and paid media do to make it easier to appreciate?  If anything.

 

I don't know the hows. I just remember when I was a kid, growing up in L7, it felt like there was unemployment everywhere. Loads of wasteground and derelict properties. The whole neighbourhood was badly run down and this is borne out by photos taken around that time. I visit my mum and dad in the house they've lived in for more than 40 years, the house where I was born, and the area seems that much nicer. It's leafy and almost suburban. Yet apparently things are worse now than they were back then. So okay, I'm prepared to believe it's all an illusion, but that doesn't explain why things appear nicer, to me.

[Bjornebye]

17 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Why? I am not sure I disagree. I have known families and learned of their struggles and would never have imagined.

Just by looking around. There is more homeless on the streets of this city than I can ever remember,  boarded up shops in high streets etc, food bank usage at an all time high. It’s never been easy to see what goes on behind closed doors but it’s evident outside for sure. 

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

All I can say is that your experience obviously differs from mine, which is that poverty was much more visible in the past.

 

 

I don't know the hows. I just remember when I was a kid, growing up in L7, it felt like there was unemployment everywhere. Loads of wasteground and derelict properties. The whole neighbourhood was badly run down and this is borne out by photos taken around that time. I visit my mum and dad in the house they've lived in for more than 40 years, the house where I was born, and the area seems that much nicer. It's leafy and almost suburban. Yet apparently things are worse now than they were back then. So okay, I'm prepared to believe it's all an illusion, but that doesn't explain why things appear nicer, to me.

I remember the 90s and it probably was more prominent on the eye then but it is by no means hidden from view now 

[Bobby Hundreds]

Cheap credit and finance is like a fake set over the reality of what's undernearh. I grew up in Kenny in the 80s early 90s and it was derelict, still bomb sites everywhere, everyone was hustling. Seeing a new car was rare you'd see its licence plate and point it out. I'd say the reality is still better now than it was then, surely more people do have a greater disposable income than they ever did before but there is always going to be many suffering worse too. The worrying thing for me is it feels like we are sliding backwards it actually feels like a managed decline, reign in people's expectations and hopes get them used to empty cupboards.

 

The tories are never going to do shit to improve society they're the kind of people to pull the ladder up not set them down, I think the same of labour too they set their own example by focusing on keeping power in their own party at the cost of opposing a truly terrifying government so why would they be any different in government they'd focus on keeping their own power, 2 parties that care only for their parties rather than the job they've been elected to do. There's no big ideas, those making the decisions are doing very nicely for themselves. It's hard not to feel complete apathy and thats probably what they want.

[Creator Supreme]

1 hour ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Cheap credit and finance is like a fake set over the reality of what's undernearh. I grew up in Kenny in the 80s early 90s and it was derelict, still bomb sites everywhere, everyone was hustling. Seeing a new car was rare you'd see its licence plate and point it out. I'd say the reality is still better now than it was then, surely more people do have a greater disposable income than they ever did before but there is always going to be many suffering worse too. The worrying thing for me is it feels like we are sliding backwards it actually feels like a managed decline, reign in people's expectations and hopes get them used to empty cupboards.

 

The tories are never going to do shit to improve society they're the kind of people to pull the ladder up not set them down, I think the same of labour too they set their own example by focusing on keeping power in their own party at the cost of opposing a truly terrifying government so why would they be any different in government they'd focus on keeping their own power, 2 parties that care only for their parties rather than the job they've been elected to do. There's no big ideas, those making the decisions are doing very nicely for themselves. It's hard not to feel complete apathy and thats probably what they want.

I'd disagree with the comments in bold! Every year speaking personally I have less and less disposable income. The last time it felt like I had a decent amount of disposable income was about 12 years ago, and I'm on a decent wage.

 

I don't know how those on minimum wage cope, even with tax credits etc!

[AngryOfTuebrook]

 

[Creator Supreme]

9 minutes ago, Shit said:

 

I've just posted about this in the Tory Cabinet Thread, fucking awful!

[Arniepie]

I remember liverpool in the 80s and even the city centre was on its arse ,so I get the argument that,on.the surface, poverty isn't as visible now.

However go to town now and you literally see hundreds, hundreds of people on the streets. That is a relatively new phenomenon. 

You often also see young people driving round in 30k grand cars but you genuinely have to ask yourself. How much of that is legit?

Half the city seems to be grafting, so I'm not sure which strengthens or weakens the poverty argument,as the money isnt coming from well paid jobs.

I think any 10 minute walk around the likes of Anfield, walton,kirkdale, bootle ,Norris green etc will leave you in no uncertain terms how real poverty is in this city and it's going to get a hell.of a lot worse 

[Anubis]

Just watching that Dispatches clip I saw the tablet and mobile phone and my first thought was how many cunts out there will be pointing at them and squawking on about “we’ll if you can afford…” even though it’s a shitty tablet and a mobile phone is virtually a necessity these days, given how everything is moving online. There are so many cunts out there who think poor people should have nothing at all.

[Creator Supreme]

1 hour ago, Anubis said:

Just watching that Dispatches clip I saw the tablet and mobile phone and my first thought was how many cunts out there will be pointing at them and squawking on about “we’ll if you can afford…” even though it’s a shitty tablet and a mobile phone is virtually a necessity these days, given how everything is moving online. There are so many cunts out there who think poor people should have nothing at all.

Yeah you're right, there'll be lots of comments like that, even though the little fella said in the clip that his mum saved up for him. Made me appreciate how lucky I've been to be able to give my kids a half decent life (so far anyway).

[TD_LFC]

Hate programs like that, showing me up for buying/worrying about shit that doesn't matter when, despite not being rich, I can put food on the table, buy a new phone if I need to or buy a game I probably won't play, none of which will make me happy once I have it.

 

Kids got his shit together better than I have.

[Paulie Dangerously]

I'd imagine that those who own newer cars outright are in the minority these days. All on finance. 

 

People trapped in a cycle of renting, leasing and borrowing. 

 

Agree with the above about disposable income. Seems like every month I'm balls to the wall despite earning more than I ever have at the minute. 

 

[AngryOfTuebrook]

On 25/10/2021 at 22:18, AngryOfTuebrook said:

 

I recorded this but only got round to watching it last night.

 

There was a young family in an overcrowded homeless hostel, being told that it would probably be 18-24 months before they could get out. Two years is an absolute eternity in a child's life. The damage that will do is permanent.

 

Just when you think you can't hate the Tories any more...

[Oh Buoy]

Just stumbled across this:

 

https://www.itison.com/Edinburgh/deals/christmas-dinner-for-a-homeless-person-2