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Newcastle (A) Premier League - 30/12/2020 - 20:00


Bjornebye
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11 hours ago, skaro said:

 

You might have a point there, at least with the first-choicers of last season.

Second half against West Brom, first half against Newcastle today.

Jurgen subbing Mo in injury time was perplexing too.  

Jurgen's not in brilliant form himself, if I'm honest.

 

Injuries will be the excuse.

But fuck that.

 

 

We had a fuck load of chances to win it. We gave that performance 20 times last season but took our chances. As for injuries being an excuse, well, yeah it is but it’s also fairly valid. I’d be surprised if any other team in the league could lose so many players and still be top. 
 

Alisson

Trent

Van Dijk

Matip

Gomez

Fabinho (from midfield)

Thiago

Keita

Salah

Mane

Jota

 

If missing those players for significant number of games isn’t a valid excuse for dropping points, I’m not sure if there is any valid excuse. That’s a league winning side in its own right. 
 

I’m not saying ‘fuck it, let’s say it’s okay just because we’ve had injuries’, but I’m saying that the reaction to some lacklustre draws should be tempered by the fact that we have had a genuine injury crisis and we are still top of the table

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When Virgil got injured I'd have taken this position with the window about to open. When Gomez got injured every man women and child is snapping your hand off for a 3 point lead at this stage. After Southampton we're through the worst of it, we can get some rest and prepare for the rest of the season. We can only get better, Utd are at their maximum terms of luck, avoiding injuries and ability defensively. City are still the big threat, we could do with them dropping points at Chelsea. The rest are nothing to be concerned about.

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6 minutes ago, No2 said:

When Virgil got injured I'd have taken this position with the window about to open. When Gomez got injured every man women and child is snapping your hand off for a 3 point lead at this stage. After Southampton we're through the worst of it, we can get some rest and prepare for the rest of the season. We can only get better, Utd are at their maximum terms of luck, avoiding injuries and ability defensively. City are still the big threat, we could do with them dropping points at Chelsea. The rest are nothing to be concerned about.

You seem to be assuming we will buy when the window opens

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That performance wasn't good but it was loads better than WBA particularly second half which we completely dominated and created more than enough to win. Last season we win that game with that level of performance but this season things aren't going for us. I think the lack of crowds has made it more difficult to sustain the level of intensity which helped carry us through the tight games over the last two years. 

 

Thiago will make a big difference if he can stay fit and the sooner Jota gets fit the better. 

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29 minutes ago, Daisy said:

You seem to be assuming we will buy when the window opens

Yes that was what I was assuming and we have gotten to the point were can add to the squad if we choose and we are 3 points clear. Back in October I'm biting your hand off for that. If we choose not to buy then that's a different thing altogether, I can't see anyway we don't pull the trigger, whoever we where looking at for next summer has to be bought now no matter the additional cost.

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10 hours ago, lebron said:

It IS a structural problem when we have the 3 slowest CBs in the league. Our pressing isn't nearly as effective when we're not compressing the field. We either have to give up the pressing for a while (and look like most other teams) or live with the hazardous approach og playing Fab + 1 at the halfway line against the quick strikers of the PL. The targeting of Phillips/Williams will just continue...

 

I'd consider playing Gini CB, he's strong, quick and has a decent leap on him. I don't think we'll be buying a CB in january. I'm nearly starting to hope for a postponement of the season so that Vvd, Gomez and Matip can be back fit and firing.

 

 


I agree, the lack of pace at the back will influence our ability to play our regular system. Our pressing game, and high intensity, is key to both defence and attack for us. And like you say to make it work we need to compress the field, otherwise their is too much space to cover.

 

So yes definately, the available players is a factor to make our system work properly. But I still believe tiredness and mentality plays a part. In the Spurs game it worked well, against a bus parking team extremely dangerous on the counter.

 

So a mix I reckon of different factors, and we definately need to strengthen at CB, with the right type of player, to get back to our best level. 
 

What I dont agree with is that we’ve been ‘found out’ and dont know how to play teams defending deep any more.

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11 minutes ago, No2 said:

Yes that was what I was assuming and we have gotten to the point were can add to the squad if we choose and we are 3 points clear. Back in October I'm biting your hand off for that. If we choose not to buy then that's a different thing altogether, I can't see anyway we don't pull the trigger, whoever we where looking at for next summer has to be bought now no matter the additional cost.

We don’t get anyone in and we could struggle for CL next season.

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I can't understand how we're so wasteful with the forwards we've got. Really wish we had a Fowler, Owen, Torres etc. type finisher in this squad. Really need to consider a more attacking midfielder capable of scoring goals too. Bizarrely that could be Gini considering what he does for Holland. It's never going to be Keita despite that being our main hope when we signed him. If the Ox could stay fit for 3 fucking days in a row he could be that man. Ah fuck it, just bin both Keita and Ox and sign a midfielder that can score. A cheeky bid for Muller in Jan please.

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8 hours ago, an tha said:

I don't get the logic of not buying.

 

We need to buy a long term partner for VVD - we can't go on with 3 centre halves 1 of who is always injured and we can't keep denying our midfield the presence of Fabinho long term.

 

We have known we needed to act in Jan since that little Dinocunt went through VVD and then Gomez went down....and it isn't just an emergency stop gap job, it is just what needed doing come the summer and what we should have had a plan for anyway brought forward one window.....that bringing forward one window should not be an excuse to not get it done.

 

We need to get it done - if we don't then for me we will pay by winning fuck all this season.

 

I know its hard to take top players away from clubs in Jan and we'll probably have to pay a premium, so be it - just get it done.

Wasn't January, mate.

 

We really could do with a quality first choice centre-back, money no issue, given both Gomez and Matip can't be relied upon. The issue is, is there one that we want, one that suits our defensive system (high line, play out from the back) and is available? Or do we buy second best to plug a gap (which some seem to be happy with) but at a ridiculous price that might prevent us from getting someone on our radar in the Summer perhaps?

 

Unless there's someone we've already scouted and enquired about who's both willing to come, and their club are willing to sell in this window, I think the club's thinking would be to hold tight with what we've got, rather than get a mediocre, ill-fitting and likely costly replacement. And I can see their logic.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Doctor Troy said:

Be interesting to see what type of team Klopp plays against Villa next week, whether the main starters all get rested. He will probably treat it like an inconvenience again. 

 

Which is a bit stupid since he played a strong team in a meaningless game when Jota got injured.

I don't think he'll play any first teamers we haven't got cover for. But we can field a decent side from squad players with a few kids.  Neco, Milner, Shaq , Ox, Mini, Origi, Jones, Tsimikas (if fit). Obviously there's a problem at CB so maybe Koumetio has to play. 

I've got a feeling it'll be postponed anyway. 

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2 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

I think its quite ironic that although we are covering VVD's injury very well,we are missing his presence in the opponents penalty area from corners and set pieces too. What did we have,12-13 corners to their 5 or 6? Those situations should be taken advantage of.

Yeah he is good for probably 5 goals a season from corners - goals we now miss with hom being out.

 

In a tight season like this that might mean 3 or 4 pts and could be crucial.

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49 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

Wasn't January, mate.

 

We really could do with a quality first choice centre-back, money no issue, given both Gomez and Matip can't be relied upon. The issue is, is there one that we want, one that suits our defensive system (high line, play out from the back) and is available? Or do we buy second best to plug a gap (which some seem to be happy with) but at a ridiculous price that might prevent us from getting someone on our radar in the Summer perhaps?

 

Unless there's someone we've already scouted and enquired about who's both willing to come, and their club are willing to sell in this window, I think the club's thinking would be to hold tight with what we've got, rather than get a mediocre, ill-fitting and likely costly replacement. And I can see their logic.

 

 

I didn't say it was Jan, mate....I said we knew we had to act in Jan since those things happened.

 

As for the 'mediocre' or 'ill fitting' agree 100% - but then that is my point, there is absolutely no reason at all we should be stuck doing that....we have had 2/3 months of knowing we need to act, we also know that the situation with Matip and having just 3 is totally unsustainable, therefore we surely must have identified someone - yes we'd have probably have done it in summer had VVD and Gomez not been crocked, but they have been and we now have to bring forward acting...

 

Pay whatever extra it takes.

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With Fabinho being the only reliable centre half it would be madness not to prepare for a possible injury of suspension to him before the end of the season. My fear is having to play both Phillips and Rhys Williams in the same game. We'd probably have the slowest centre back pairing in history and have to defend on our own six yard box! And although the Jota signing was a fine one,losing Hoever does seem strange as I reckon he'd have played a few first team games in the league by now.

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36 minutes ago, joe_fishfish said:

Thought it was quite noticeable, from Trent especially, that when Thiago came on we started to buck our ideas up.


Funny, I was thinking the excact same thing. When Thiago came on it was like we switched on, and I agree especially Trent seemed to suddenly starting to play with some determination and urgency. Almost as if he was thinking we can’t allow ourselves to play like this when we have this player in our side.

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1 hour ago, Jack the Sipper said:

Unless there's someone we've already scouted and enquired about who's both willing to come, and their club are willing to sell in this window, I think the club's thinking would be to hold tight with what we've got, rather than get a mediocre, ill-fitting and likely costly replacement. And I can see their logic.

 

 

While there is some logic to the club thinking that way, it is also a massive gamble. For many fans, it was already a gamble to go into the season without replacing Lovren. 

 

Another injury to Fabinho and Matip still being made of crisps means we would have to rely on Phillips and Rhys for extended periods. And not only would our defence be shaky, their lack of pace and experience would also compromise the overall balance of our team.

 

More points would be lost unnecessarily due to that and it won't be hyperbolic to say we could be facing a fight to finish top 4 by the end of the season.

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48 minutes ago, an tha said:

I didn't say it was Jan, mate....I said we knew we had to act in Jan since those things happened.

 

As for the 'mediocre' or 'ill fitting' agree 100% - but then that is my point, there is absolutely no reason at all we should be stuck doing that....we have had 2/3 months of knowing we need to act, we also know that the situation with Matip and having just 3 is totally unsustainable, therefore we surely must have identified someone - yes we'd have probably have done it in summer had VVD and Gomez not been crocked, but they have been and we now have to bring forward acting...

 

Pay whatever extra it takes.

Sorry, I misread you there.

 

But what if we can't get the quality we and Klopp in particular wants right now? It doesn't matter that we've known for months that we need someone if no-one of that quality becomes available in January, even if we're willing to pay over the odds for him.

 

I'm just looking at a hypothetical situation whereby Klopp/Edwards etc are faced with, despite their best efforts to find a quality replacement in Jan, the choice between laying out some exorbitant fee for someone they don't particularly want, and who they don't think is good enough for us, and that hinders their prospects of getting a long-term target in the Summer, or sticking with what they've got.

 

I don't think you'll find anyone here arguing that, if real quality is available, we should trust the likes of a half-formed Matip, Williams and Philips to get us through and then go again with Gomez and Matip next season. Just that spunking, possibly big, money on someone who might not even prove to be a meaningful upgrade on what we've got smacks of desperation and short-termism.

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