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Jarvinja Ilnow

Anfield Road Planning Permission re-submission

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40 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Im inclined to agree with you. Lots of people are getting fucked off with VAR affecting results. Why spend 50 quid to see a game when the result hinges on an officious VAR knobhead drawing millimeter wide lines in some portacabin outside of London?

 

Then you have supposedly 40% of the population saying they wont have the jab and despite the test results, no vaccine is ever going to eradicate it. Wouldnt surprise me in the least if that knock anything like 5000 to 10000 off the gate for a couple of years at least.


That’s nonsense, in my opinion. Thousands and thousands of people have completely given up hope of getting home tickets because they’re unavailable. And that’s without factoring in all the people who try in vain in the members sales. 
 

If we had tickets going on general sale they’d be snapped up in the blink of an eye. 

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20 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:


That’s nonsense, in my opinion. Thousands and thousands of people have completely given up hope of getting home tickets because they’re unavailable. And that’s without factoring in all the people who try in vain in the members sales. 
 

If we had tickets going on general sale they’d be snapped up in the blink of an eye. 

Economically it is so shit now. The last time I was able to go to Anfiel, it was because my wife bought the shit tickets at a massive amount to celebrate getting better from illness. I'd love to do it the usual way but it is easier to see us in London than it is at home.

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Just looking at the capacity of each stand - 

 

Kop - 12.4k.

Dalglish - 11.7k.

Annie Road - 9k.

Main Stand - 20.5k.

 

Spurs can get 17.5k behind their goal. 
 

Given the issues with Walton Breck Rd, I’m not sure it’s doable or cost effective.

 

There are more benefits to the Dalglish stand but I appreciate the issues with houses.

 

This Anfield Rd expansion, is likely, it for the foreseeable future.

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2 hours ago, Scott_M said:

Just looking at the capacity of each stand - 

 

Kop - 12.4k.

Dalglish - 11.7k.

Annie Road - 9k.

Main Stand - 20.5k.

 

Spurs can get 17.5k behind their goal. 
 

Given the issues with Walton Breck Rd, I’m not sure it’s doable or cost effective.

 

There are more benefits to the Dalglish stand but I appreciate the issues with houses.

 

This Anfield Rd expansion, is likely, it for the foreseeable future.

I read some people commenting again on the Echo piece saying 'next add another 12k on the Kop.' I dont know where these people think the space for an additional 12,000 people on the Kop would come from.

 

It's fanciful of people talking of re routing Walton Breck. It's a major road. Getting businesses to move out of their match day goldmines, never mind those who live in the streets behind would cost 10's of millions of pounds.

 

The existing Kop would virtually have to be torn down with new foundations, access, stairways and roof. The sight lines would be shite with the players looking like ants.

 

They may be able to stick another 10 rows on the SKD Upper by jacking up the roof but what would the cost be for roughly 2500 seats?

 

As you say, ARE is virtually it.

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15 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

Im surprised. I thought they'd have parked this until full crowds were allowed back. Remains to be seen if we'll see 'capacity'crowds back in the next 2 years or so.

It's just typical RS behaviour and de council will approve it without looking at it. Source, taxi driver.

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Cynic might say this is being released ahead of January transfer window. Jurgen looks pretty pissed off at the moment. I don't think a centre back is coming 

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8 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

I read some people commenting again on the Echo piece saying 'next add another 12k on the Kop.' I dont know where these people think the space for an additional 12,000 people on the Kop would come from.

 

It's fanciful of people talking of re routing Walton Breck. It's a major road. Getting businesses to move out of their match day goldmines, never mind those who live in the streets behind would cost 10's of millions of pounds.

 

The existing Kop would virtually have to be torn down with new foundations, access, stairways and roof. The sight lines would be shite with the players looking like ants.

 

They may be able to stick another 10 rows on the SKD Upper by jacking up the roof but what would the cost be for roughly 2500 seats?

 

As you say, ARE is virtually it.

Best hope for a bigger Kop Is safe standing but if they’d allow more than 1:1 is another matter. I can’t see them ever going down the road of a full rebuild, rerouting of WBR etc. 

Long term plan should be to try and mirror the main stand on the SKD but that would involve having to purchase and demolish skerries and 1/2 of Wylva Rds. That would take us up to 70k with the ARE expansion but to achieve this I think it would also have to include improved transport links which make it a very costly exercise for 9k extra seats.

 

Best hope in short term term to go above 61k will be safe standing where we MAY be able to get another 3-4K on the kop but again the cost of the improvements required may make it unfeasible. 

 

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1 hour ago, Daisy said:

Cynic might say this is being released ahead of January transfer window. Jurgen looks pretty pissed off at the moment. I don't think a centre back is coming 

FSG are business people. If the injuries clear up slightly and Nat Philips and Rhys Willians continue to deputise well, then you're right. 

 

Having said that if they fear us dropping out of the Champions League places, I think this could sway it. 

 

I would be happy with a decent number 2 goalkeeper and a decent central defender but I'd be shocked if we spend more than 20 million this window.

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1 hour ago, A Red said:

I can see the kop being standing again one day

 

5 minutes ago, devilsadvocate said:

Best hope for a bigger Kop Is safe standing but if they’d allow more than 1:1 is another matter. I can’t see them ever going down the road of a full rebuild, rerouting of WBR etc. 
 

Best hope in short term term to go above 61k will be safe standing where we MAY be able to get another 3-4K on the kop but again the cost of the improvements required may make it unfeasible. 

 

First thing I thought. It's obviously nowhere near as big but the same sort of design they have in Dortmund. That said it's a very emotive matter and if those they consult are against it then I'm more than happy to see the Kop remain as it is. 

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I think the maximum we can go up to is 68,000 without extra transport links. 

 

The problem with the railway lines near the ground is that they are freight lines for the docks which apparently already struggle to shift freight from there, they still have a massive traffic problem through Seaforth and the docks want to expand again. 

 

Also the cost of putting in passenger signals and a couple of stations could be over £350m. Two possible stations at Utting Avenue (old Cubmoor station) and by Walton Lane police station (old Anfield and Walton station, next to the police station) could be reopened. The line could go from Lime St up past Wavertree and go through the Olive Mount tunnel. 

 

I think that the KD stand could be done with a  few more seats on the upper tier with the possibility of more corporate boxes in between. But expanding it to the size of the main stand involves buying up the road behind. All the houses are occupied and a lot of the owners originally bought them off the club. A lot of the houses are nice old Victorian era houses in good condition. 

 

You would basically have to offer people a lot of money over and above the value of their houses to get them to consider moving. 

 

The difference with the road on the Main stand side was a lot were derelict, in disrepair or owned by chancer landlords who wanted megabucks and half the street had already been demolished. 

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1 hour ago, devilsadvocate said:

Best hope for a bigger Kop Is safe standing but if they’d allow more than 1:1 is another matter. I can’t see them ever going down the road of a full rebuild, rerouting of WBR etc. 

Long term plan should be to try and mirror the main stand on the SKD but that would involve having to purchase and demolish skerries and 1/2 of Wylva Rds. That would take us up to 70k with the ARE expansion but to achieve this I think it would also have to include improved transport links which make it a very costly exercise for 9k extra seats.

 

Best hope in short term term to go above 61k will be safe standing where we MAY be able to get another 3-4K on the kop but again the cost of the improvements required may make it unfeasible. 

 

Yeah agree with a lot of that. I cannot see 'safe standing' at this club but if they do, it will only be a small section as you say and no more than 1 for 1 in my opinion. Neither can I see the club getting involved in another shit storm of publicity of forcing people out of their homes to increase the SKD and or Walton Breck and buying out the match day gold mine stores would be incredibly expensive.

 

To me, as I said, they could possibly jack up the SKD roof for a few more rows but you're still talking sub 3000 seats v cost of the upgrade.

 

 

1 hour ago, Bjornebye said:

 

First thing I thought. It's obviously nowhere near as big but the same sort of design they have in Dortmund. That said it's a very emotive matter and if those they consult are against it then I'm more than happy to see the Kop remain as it is. 

The Westfallon is in the middle of a park. Unless there were building restrictions in place when they upgraded the stadium, Im still a bit surprised at how the stands are placed.

 

But that's the major problem with Anfield, it's hemmed in on two sides. Ive had stewards come to me on the SKD Upper first row and say they've women who are frightened by sitting on the back row being so high up and 'would I mind swapping seats' with them for the game!

 

It's not just the numbers, it's the sight lines people would have when you build higher and further back.

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48 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

Yeah agree with a lot of that. I cannot see 'safe standing' at this club but if they do, it will only be a small section as you say and no more than 1 for 1 in my opinion. Neither can I see the club getting involved in another shit storm of publicity of forcing people out of their homes to increase the SKD and or Walton Breck and buying out the match day gold mine stores would be incredibly expensive.

 

To me, as I said, they could possibly jack up the SKD roof for a few more rows but you're still talking sub 3000 seats v cost of the upgrade.

Agree mate I think 61k maybe 65k if they figure a cost effective way of expanding skd or if they can get a few k more in the kop with safe standing will be the most we’ll see Anfield hold. 

As you say and Dr Troy said to rebuild skd would involve CPO of 1.5 streets and all the problems that causes then the millions to improve transport links for an extra 9k seats. Probably no more money to be paid from hospitality either as you’d think we’ve got the sweet spot on that front with main stand/Revamped ARE. 
 

For another 5k max seats in the kop you’d have to CPO the Albert/park pubs + the church and the rows of shops with the chippy on and then reroute WBR. 
 

I think this was all considered when FSG made the decision to remain at Anfield. I’d prefer 61-65k at Anfield to 70k + somewhere else. 

 

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1 hour ago, Doctor Troy said:

I think the maximum we can go up to is 68,000 without extra transport links. 

 

The problem with the railway lines near the ground is that they are freight lines for the docks which apparently already struggle to shift freight from there, they still have a massive traffic problem through Seaforth and the docks want to expand again. 

 

Also the cost of putting in passenger signals and a couple of stations could be over £350m. Two possible stations at Utting Avenue (old Cubmoor station) and by Walton Lane police station (old Anfield and Walton station, next to the police station) could be reopened. The line could go from Lime St up past Wavertree and go through the Olive Mount tunnel. 

 

I think that the KD stand could be done with a  few more seats on the upper tier with the possibility of more corporate boxes in between. But expanding it to the size of the main stand involves buying up the road behind. All the houses are occupied and a lot of the owners originally bought them off the club. A lot of the houses are nice old Victorian era houses in good condition. 

 

You would basically have to offer people a lot of money over and above the value of their houses to get them to consider moving. 

 

The difference with the road on the Main stand side was a lot were derelict, in disrepair or owned by chancer landlords who wanted megabucks and half the street had already been demolished. 

Think I would rather wait and see what the shite do with the County Road monorail before committing to train stations.

Well that and the Llandudno-Pier Head cruise liners.

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I don’t see the need to increase capacity once ARE is done. Be happy with what we’ve got. We don’t need to have the biggest ground. We never had semi finals and rarely had internationals. We have concerts and shit now. The ground is generally good and still feels like Anfield. The money is in ancillary sales and tv rights, not an extra 10,000 seats for the sake of it.

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I think 65,000 would be enough after the Anfield road end. The KD stand is shite though and the legroom is awful unless you are Warwick Davis.

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1 hour ago, DalyanPete said:

Think I would rather wait and see what the shite do with the County Road monorail before committing to train stations.

Well that and the Llandudno-Pier Head cruise liners.

It just seems very costly just for Anfield. 

 

The money to open the whole line to passengers with all the old stations reinstated would be enormous and would require a lot from the government. 

 

Then you have the problem of blocking the port taking extra capacity on the railway line. 

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32 minutes ago, Doctor Troy said:

I think 65,000 would be enough after the Anfield road end. The KD stand is shite though and the legroom is awful unless you are Warwick Davis.

Yeah my legs looked like they'd been riddled with bullets the day after the Barca game. To be fair me and Dr Nowt did hijack 2 lads from Northern Irelands taxi near the ground so they may well have been. 

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34 minutes ago, Doctor Troy said:

It just seems very costly just for Anfield. 

 

The money to open the whole line to passengers with all the old stations reinstated would be enormous and would require a lot from the government. 

 

Then you have the problem of blocking the port taking extra capacity on the railway line. 

I think the train idea is a non starter when you examine it closely. You either need a lot of frequent, short trains, say 4 carriage units like the Tyne and Wear Metro or longer trains of 6 or more carriages for capacity but run less frequently. But the problem you have is getting the trains to run at short intervals so you can rapidly move people from one place to another.

 

Even the Tyne and Wear Metro trains into the dedicated St James' station are about 10 minutes apart and the service isnt really increased on matchdays. You also have the practicalities of running a railway with no 2 trains in the same 'block' or stretch of track. using St James' after a game is pure carnage.

 

If you've had to wait for the fourth train at 10 minutes intervals, that means you're kicking your heels for the best part of 40 minutes before you get moving. Faced with that, people will decide to drive, get the bus etc.

 

Then, as you say, there's the issue with it's current use and capacity.

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9 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

I think the train idea is a non starter when you examine it closely. You either need a lot of frequent, short trains, say 4 carriage units like the Tyne and Wear Metro or longer trains of 6 or more carriages for capacity but run less frequently. But the problem you have is getting the trains to run at short intervals so you can rapidly move people from one place to another.

 

Even the Tyne and Wear Metro trains into the dedicated St James' station are about 10 minutes apart and the service isnt really increased on matchdays. You also have the practicalities of running a railway with no 2 trains in the same 'block' or stretch of track. using St James' after a game is pure carnage.

 

If you've had to wait for the fourth train at 10 minutes intervals, that means you're kicking your heels for the best part of 40 minutes before you get moving. Faced with that, people will decide to drive, get the bus etc.

 

Then, as you say, there's the issue with it's current use and capacity.

I went to Barca V Monchengladbach a few years ago and the Milan derby. 

 

The Barca game was only 2/3 full but you had to queue down the street to wait to get into Les Corts metro station so I ended up walking back into town. 

 

The Milan metro was rammed going to the san siro. Had to change on the purple line and 5 trains went past where  no one could get on so we just got out at that metro stop and walked about a mile and a half. 

 

Went to Ibrox last year for the legends game against Liverpool. Think there was 27000 there yet after the game you couldn't get near the metro. To be fair the Glasgow metro trains are ridiculously small.

 

 

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A quick Google tells me that Dortmund's Yellow Wall holds 25k, but thats standing.

 

For internationals, I capacity drops from 82k to 66k. I know the stand we had in 2001 is standing in the lower section, so not all the loss of capacity comes from the Yellow Wall, but I'd guess its the larger share of it.

 

IMO, like the small seated section beneath the Kop / Centenary Stand scoreboard and where George spins is decks, I like to see a similar section like that between the Kop & Main Stand, revive the Boys Pen and give the tickets to local schools. I assume there would only be a couple of hundred seats, absolute maximum, but it would be a nice gesture. 

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It seems mad that forty years on from our domination of the late seventies/eighties the public transport for getting to anfield is still more or less the same.

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3 hours ago, Caramac said:

It seems mad that forty years on from our domination of the late seventies/eighties the public transport for getting to anfield is still more or less the same.

I think only 5 or 6 new stations have opened up in the Merseyside region in the last 25 years. Off the top of my head, Maghull North, South Parkway, Wavertree technology park and Conway Park. Two new ones in the Baltic Fleet and Kirkby are planned but will take years to get investment or built. 

 

Compare that to the level of investment London and Manchester gets for public transport.

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