Halsey: Referee standards have dropped to alarming levels

[Jennings]

Spirit of Shankly's post is good. Lot's of nails hit on the head. But it'll never work due to the partisan nature of footy, and everyone employed in football already being on the gravy train.

 

 

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

1 minute ago, Jennings said:

Maybe -but right now, they only use the offside system when there's been a goal. That is fundamentally flawed.

 

 

I am saying that I see other teams being the victim of atrocious decisions with no accountability. Fixing this is the priority.

 

 

If you care only about the major and very visible decisions, then fine. And they are of course massively important, dont get me wrong, we were denied a goal by one of those yesterday. Which is a scandalous thing the way it happened.

 

What I’m saying is that the large data sample showing that we’re systematically and significantly worse off ref decisions than all other teams is a much clearer indication that something is wrong.

 

All teams can find single incidents where they were cheated by the officials, but only one team is a massive outlier over 8 years and 300 matches of no second yellows to an opponent. 

[Jennings]

25 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

If you care only about the major and very visible decisions, then fine. And they are of course massively important, dont get me wrong, we were denied a goal by one of those yesterday. Which is a scandalous thing the way it happened.

 

What I’m saying is that the large data sample showing that we’re systematically and significantly worse off ref decisions than all other teams is a much clearer indication that something is wrong.

 

All teams can find single incidents where they were cheated by the officials, but only one team is a massive outlier over 8 years and 300 matches of no second yellows to an opponent. 

 

All I mean is, whether its bias, corruption or ineptitude, the outcome that we want would still be the same - i.e the right people held to account and sweeping changes made. So I won't sweat that particular detail. 

 

[Barrington Womble]

20 hours ago, Tj hooker said:

Anyone who thinks were getting.

referreed on a level playing field needs to give there heads a wobble after totally fucking corrupt performance by that cunt and especially Var 

They aren't even trying to disguise the blatant corruption anymore and its disgusting. 

 

I've not had time to be on here the last few days as I'm travelling. But wanted to come and see this thread and see the reaction to yesterday. Absolutely nailed with the first post.  

 

 

19 hours ago, Carvalho Diablo said:

Been watching football for over 50 years and every weekend these useless fucking officials somehow manage to drag our beautiful game to ever lower levels of absurdity, thanks to their astounding incompetence.

 

Not today. In all my years I cannot remember a single more corrupt display than that we've just witnessed.

 

Corruption. Cheating. It needs to be called out, it needs to be eradicated, and these cheating cunts need to be sacked and jailed.

 

I thought things were at a pretty low level when mike Riley was running the show. But since Webb has taken over, the number of absolutely batshit decisions (normally doubled down on by var) is astonishing..it's at least one major decision they get wrong each week, usually more with 3 or 4 games per weekend the referee becomes the biggest talking point. Yet this var bag of shite is meant to be there toake sure we get the big decions right. Yet they somehow make them worse. 

 

18 hours ago, Jennings said:

A VAR official openly admits making wrong decisions to protect a colleague. Then the debacle today - and its not an isolated incident.

 

PGMOL can't be trusted anymore.

 

It is completely unacceptable. Webb has to resign. 

 

 

 

As I pointed out in the last post, things have got worse every week under Webb. Surely the buck stops with the boss? 

 

And we have to stop this allowing refs to moonlight elsewhere and in nation states that own premier League clubs. Even if there's no wrong doing, there's clearly a conflict of interests and massively open to accusations of corruption. 

 

1 hour ago, DaveT said:

So in summary…. The lineman got it wrong, the VAR ref failed to realise that the lineman got it wrong, and the assistant VAR failed to realise that the VAR ref hadn’t realised that the lineman had got it wrong. 

 

The story seems to be both the VAR and assistant VAR believed the onfield decision was a goal and they confirmed that decision. Even though it was offside and the VAR screenshots confirm.VAR knew they were checking a disallowed goal. 

 

So in summary, they're just fucking cheats. 

[Jack the Sipper]

8 hours ago, Lee909 said:

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

The stat you are showing there is in no way comparable to the second yellow card stat. Of the deviation was similar we’d need to get 5 times as many penalties as the second team. 5 times. 
 

What do you reckon would have happened if we were on 845 penalties and the second team on 169?

 

You referring to the chart above? 

 

Why does it begin in 2015 and not earlier or later? Something to do with Klopp's reign? Where's the chart for straight reds? And what's meant by 'difference to expectations' in the 2nd chart? Whose expectations? 

 

According to that chart (compiled by 'BassTunedToRed') we've had one in that time, City have had five, four more than us over 8 years, or if you want, 5 times as many. Bad when you look at it like that. But then, Crystal fucking Palace have had 3 times more than City! Who are these guys working for? Steve Parish?

 

And you do realise the implications of that chart, if you're going to claim systematic corruption - that pretty much every referee in the PL in the past 8 years has been in on it, risking their career, their reputation, perhaps even their freedom. For what? To cheat us by making sure opponents don't get 2nd yellows?

 

Come on.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

53 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

 

You referring to the chart above? 

 

Why does it begin in 2015 and not earlier or later? Something to do with Klopp's reign? Where's the chart for straight reds? And what's meant by 'difference to expectations' in the 2nd chart? Whose expectations? 

 

According to that chart (compiled by 'BassTunedToRed') we've had one in that time, City have had five, four more than us over 8 years, or if you want, 5 times as many. Bad when you look at it like that. But then, Crystal fucking Palace have had 3 times more than City! Who are these guys working for? Steve Parish?

 

And you do realise the implications of that chart, if you're going to claim systematic corruption - that pretty much every referee in the PL in the past 8 years has been in on it, risking their career, their reputation, perhaps even their freedom. For what? To cheat us by making sure opponents don't get 2nd yellows?

 

Come on.

I asked you what you may think the reason is for one club being sucha a massive statistical outlier on data like this, over a long period and a very large sample size. What do you reckon?

[Jack the Sipper]

21 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

I asked you what you may think the reason is for one club being sucha a massive statistical outlier on data like this, over a long period and a very large sample size. What do you reckon?

 

I don't think there's a case to answer. We've seen one opponent get two yellows in 8 years, City have seen 5, and Palace have seen 15. We've been the 2nd most successful side in that period, City the most successful, and Palace, well.

 

What's the story here? 'opponents that have been given two yellows over 8 years' is a very specific and pretty random stat. 

 

And how about you answer some of my questions? Starting with how many straight reds these same clubs' opponents have got in the same period. Or how many reds each club has got in that period? Or why that period?

[gkmacca]

3 hours ago, Jennings said:

Spirit of Shankly's post is good. Lot's of nails hit on the head. But it'll never work due to the partisan nature of footy, and everyone employed in football already being on the gravy train.

 

 

I'm not sure that helps at all. It reads more like a summary of general complaints. This needs a formal, club to PGMOL, communication, backed up with the meticulously complete dossier of failings this season I mentioned earlier. It needs to be done before the PGMOL, and the FA, can try their usual game of shifting blame and penalising MacAllister or whomever for complaining. They always try to shift the blame. Fix it on them and make it really, really, clear we're pushing on with this. Corner them while there is still time.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

3 hours ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

I don't think there's a case to answer. We've seen one opponent get two yellows in 8 years, City have seen 5, and Palace have seen 15. We've been the 2nd most successful side in that period, City the most successful, and Palace, well.

 

What's the story here? 'opponents that have been given two yellows over 8 years' is a very specific and pretty random stat. 

 

And how about you answer some of my questions? Starting with how many straight reds these same clubs' opponents have got in the same period. Or how many reds each club has got in that period? Or why that period?

I dont know the stats you are looking for they are probably as easy to find for you as they would be for me. I also have no idea why the specific period was picked, but if it was from 2016 we’d be on zero, so if the period was chosen based on an agenda why not start 2016 in stead of 2015?

 

If you dont see the significance of the fact  the we’re so far off figures for second yellows compare to other teams I dont think there is any point in a discussion. 

You think this difference is only natural it seems, I think it’s very far from natural. Let’s leave it there.

[Jack the Sipper]

34 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

I dont know the stats you are looking for they are probably as easy to find for you as they would be for me. I also have no idea why the specific period was picked, but if it was from 2016 we’d be on zero, so if the period was chosen based on an agenda why not start 2016 in stead of 2015?

 

If you dont see the significance of the fact  the we’re so far off figures for second yellows compare to other teams I dont think there is any point in a discussion. 

You think this difference is only natural it seems, I think it’s very far from natural. Let’s leave it there.

 

And what if the chart started earlier, say 2010? Would we be so far removed? And why the importance for 2nd yellows between 2015 to 2022, like that's a thing? Is it, by chance, because it's the one stat that supports the idea we're being conspired against? Ever wondered why straight reds given to our opponents aren't included for context? Or why how many reds we've been given over that period haven't been given? Just this one weird '2nd yellows to our opponents' stat over an arbitrary period?

 

I'll go back to what I said when you first replied to me earlier today: people pull stats out of their arse to make all sorts of points, but they mean nothing in isolation and without context. This particular stat that you seem convinced shows we're being fucked over also shows our nearest rivals in that period (City) with the next lowest number of opponents receiving 2 yellows in a game, while a going nowhere club like Palace flying high in that chart with 15. What am I supposed to make of that?

 

For the record, over the same period, we received 9 red cards, 4 less than City, 4 less than Utd, and 5 less than Palace. I would personally consider the amount of reds we received as more indicative of how refs were treating us than how many 2nd fucking yellows our opponents received when playing us!

 

If you think that stat is proof of a conspiracy against us then you're right, there really is no point in carrying this on, although I would still love to know how the 'difference to expectations' numbers were arrived at.

[Evelyn Tentions]

One simple change would have prevented Saturdays debacle - check complete isn't sufficient. VAR should  say check complete goal or check complete offside to prevent confusion in the tiny minds of the officials. 

[Lee909]

5 hours ago, Evelyn Tentions said:

One simple change would have prevented Saturdays debacle - check complete isn't sufficient. VAR should  say check complete goal or check complete offside to prevent confusion in the tiny minds of the officials. 

 

That'll be it

They'll just lay out the changes and claim its all good and won't happen again. It won't fix the shit decisions or when they apply the laws as they see fit like waiving the cards or Goalkeepers delaying a restart. Seen Alisson twice booked for that when most of the bottom half clubs do it all game every week and go unpunished. It's the same when defenders start leaving the foot in and going rough house style defending. Refs seem to give bottom half teams far more leeway with that as its expected

[Guest]

On 01/10/2023 at 06:07, Shooter in the Motor said:

If only we had VAVAR yesterday. I’d say bring legal action against PGMOL.

 

[Mil-ing Around]

9 minutes ago, Shooter in the Motor said:

 

 

Was just about to post this. Some people hate him, but he's speaking 15 minutes of facts there. He's nailed every single point and totally understands the problems with VAR and the ref's in this country. Oh and fuck Gary Neville the little fucking weazel

[Razoray]

On 01/10/2023 at 08:43, Lee909 said:

Also the var ref was off in Abu Dhabi last few days reffing a match for a league run by the city owners. And apparently only arrives back in in England the day before our game. Nothing suspicious at all

 

 

 

If they ref or VAR in Europe, they are not allowed work on Saturday and get a Sunday or Monday game. However they can do a match in Saudi Arabia on a Thursday and work on a Saturday. This was all approved by Webb. How amatuer is this organisation? Beggars belief

[Lee909]

Just now, Razoray said:

If they ref or VAR in Europe, they are not allowed work on Saturday and get a Sunday or Monday game. However they can do a match in Saudi Arabia on a Thursday and work on a Saturday. This was all approved by Webb. How amatuer is this organisation? Beggars belief

 

The issue isn't really them doing midweek for me though maybe they should be banned on Saturdays for a Thursday midweek game but that they are working for either the Saudis or Abu Dhabi state who own 2 rival clubs. 

 

Even if you side on no corruption in it there will be unintentionally bias at best. You don't want to be seen buying the hand that feeds you and damaging either Man City or Newcastle when their owners are paying you a heft wage packet and enjoying nice mid week sunshine getaways. It's a conflict of interests at best 

[TheBitch]

*Amnesty*
 

I like Goldbridge. Speaks a lot of sense there. 

[Reckoner]

Just when the game can’t get any weirder, internet twat Goldbridge stands up for Liverpool.

[Razoray]

26 minutes ago, Lee909 said:

 

The issue isn't really them doing midweek for me though maybe they should be banned on Saturdays for a Thursday midweek game but that they are working for either the Saudis or Abu Dhabi state who own 2 rival clubs. 

 

Even if you side on no corruption in it there will be unintentionally bias at best. You don't want to be seen buying the hand that feeds you and damaging either Man City or Newcastle when their owners are paying you a heft wage packet and enjoying nice mid week sunshine getaways. It's a conflict of interests at best 

Oh I agree with all of that, but the changing of "rules" to allow this, raises questions for me. What was so important for the referees to be allowed work in Saudi on Thursday night (early Friday morning UK time) but still officiate a game on Saturday in England? Who benefitted from them travelling? Why the relaxation of rules to allow it? Is there a conflict of interest that referees have a side job working for the owners of a Premier League club? Can this be allowed to continue? 

[Pete]

19 minutes ago, Reckoner said:

Just when the game can’t get any weirder, internet twat Goldbridge stands up for Liverpool.

I know.  I've just watched that and agreed with all he said & I did enjoy him taking Neville to task and questioning who the fuck does he think he is.  

It comes to something when a Man U fan is supporting Liverpool in something. 

[Reckoner]

6 minutes ago, Razoray said:

Oh I agree with all of that, but the changing of "rules" to allow this, raises questions for me. What was so important for the referees to be allowed work in Saudi on Thursday night (early Friday morning UK time) but still officiate a game on Saturday in England? Who benefitted from them travelling? Why the relaxation of rules to allow it? Is there a conflict of interest that referees have a side job working for the owners of a Premier League club? Can this be allowed to continue? 

I’m sure I read they were due to be on duty tonight too at Luton (before suspension).

Really invites questions over priorities and tiredness at the very very least.

[Razoray]

2 minutes ago, Razoray said:

Oh I agree with all of that, but the changing of "rules" to allow this, raises questions for me. What was so important for the referees to be allowed work in Saudi on Thursday night (early Friday morning UK time) but still officiate a game on Saturday in England? Who benefitted from them travelling? Why the relaxation of rules to allow it? Is there a conflict of interest that referees have a side job working for the owners of a Premier League club? Can this be allowed to continue? 

In my job you can't accept a box of chocolates from a supplier without declaring it. It goes to the company pool which is used for prizes, awards etc. The idea that I would do paid work for the owner of a company that we arbitrate is lunacy.

[Pete]

4 minutes ago, Razoray said:

In my job you can't accept a box of chocolates from a supplier without declaring it. It goes to the company pool which is used for prizes, awards etc. The idea that I would do paid work for the owner of a company that we arbitrate is lunacy.

Same in my job.  We have hours of training about this. 

[Creator Supreme]

4 minutes ago, Pete said:

Same in my job.  We have hours of training about this. 

Same in our place.

[Einch]

I have to declare everything. Same for the  whole family who lives with me. All accounts, investments. Even when I help a relative with buying a car or paying university fees there are records to be kept and I need to sign away any right to getting the money back.