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US Election 2020 Thread


Bjornebye
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Just now, Rick Sanchez C-137 said:

 

Her daughter now saying she doesn't believe it was her mum, and that she must have been hacked. Riiiiiight

Just been reading up on it now. Sounds like her lawyer dad told her to make that statement otherwise her mum could be looking at charges and potential jail time.

the old oh something inappropriate came from my phone quick say you were hacked

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18 minutes ago, sir roger said:

What exactly do you have to do in the US to actually libel somebody ?

Obviously no idea, but they explain a little in the clip below, starts approx 50 seconds in.

 

Basically they need to prove it wasn't a one off/slip, it wasn't true and the tough one is you knew what you were saying wasn't true. 

Dominion are using the fact he said "fraud" where and whenever possible, apart from when in a court of law where there would be consequences, points to him knowing it was a load of shite.

On 25/01/2021 at 15:45, Scooby Dudek said:

CNNs take on it doesn't sound good for Rudy;

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, sir roger said:

What exactly do you have to do in the US to actually libel somebody ?

I think it hinges on proving malice, and that’s not how we understand the word. I’ll try and dig out the tweets I read. 
 

Here we are;  https://davidallengreen.com/2021/01/why-the-first-paragraph-of-the-lawsuit-brought-by-dominion-voting-systems-against-rudolph-giuilani-is-a-splendid-piece-of-legal-drafting/

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2 hours ago, Rico1304 said:

I think it hinges on proving malice, and that’s not how we understand the word. I’ll try and dig out the tweets I read. 
 

Here we are;  https://davidallengreen.com/2021/01/why-the-first-paragraph-of-the-lawsuit-brought-by-dominion-voting-systems-against-rudolph-giuilani-is-a-splendid-piece-of-legal-drafting/

Makes more sense now , and I know the Yanks never stop going on about the right to free speech , but it seems odd that a very high-profile person can basically blather extremely damaging shite without any proof, and the affected people have no restitution.

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https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/26/opinion/trump-qanon-washington-capitol-hill.html

Quote

Three Weeks Inside a Pro-Trump QAnon Chat Room

By Stuart A. Thompson

Mr. Thompson is a writer and editor for Opinion. Jan. 26, 2021

As President Biden’s inauguration ticked closer, some of Donald Trump’s supporters were feeling gleeful. Mr. Trump was on the cusp of declaring martial law, they believed. Military tribunals would follow, then televised executions, then Democrats and other deep state operatives would finally be brought to justice.

These were honestly held beliefs. Dozens of Trump supporters spoke regularly over the past three weeks on a public audio chat room app, where they uploaded short recordings instead of typing. In these candid digital confessionals, participants would crack jokes, share hopes and make predictions.

“Look at the last four years. They haven’t listened to a thing we’ve said. Um … there’s going to have to be some serious anarchy that goes on. Otherwise, nothing is going to change.”

I spent the past three weeks listening to the channel — from before the Jan. 6 Washington protest to after Mr. Biden’s inauguration. It became an obsession, something I’d check first thing every morning and listen to as I fell asleep at night. Participants tend to revere Mr. Trump and believe he’ll end the crisis outlined by Q: that the world is run by a cabal of pedophiles who operate a sex-trafficking ring, among other crimes. While the chat room group is relatively small, with only about 900 subscribers, it offers a glimpse into a worrying sect of Trump supporters. Some conspiracists like them have turned to violent languagein the wake of Mr. Trump’s electoral loss.

“If the Biden inauguration wants to come in and take your weapons and force vaccination, you have due process to blow them the [expletive] away. Do it.”

Times Opinion has included audio clips from the chat in this story because the group is public. Names and any identifying information have been omitted.

There’s a persistent belief that the online world is somehow not real. Extreme views are too easily dismissed if they’re on the internet. While people might say things online they would never do in person, all it takes is one person for digital conspiracies to take a deadly turn. That should be clear after the Capitol riot, which was largely organized online and resulted in five deaths.

Listening to the conspiracists — unfiltered and in their own voices — makes that digital conversation disturbingly real.

To participants, the channel is mainly a way to share and “fact-check” the news, cobbling theories together from fringe right-wing websites, posts on Facebook, and private channels on the messaging apps Telegram and Signal. They say their main focus is reinstituting paper ballots.

The most commonly used phrase is some version of “I heard,” followed by a theory:

Sometimes the chat is lighthearted, like when supporters swap details about grocery runs or wish one other happy birthday. But the conversation can also turn dark, like when they speak longingly about “brutal” televised executions or simply ask, “Can the people declare war inside the country if they wanted to?”

Key to sustaining their beliefs is the expectation that the other shoe is always about to drop. One prediction, concerning “10 days of darkness,” was perpetually about to come true in the form of media blackouts, social media bans or power outages.

Nearly every day, there were signs that the “10 days of darkness” had begun in some form. Power outages in India and at the Vatican were possible signs. Then blackouts were reported across the world. Then state-of-emergency orders were circulated for various storms, recalling a Q catchphrase, “The storm is coming.”

“It’d be wise to stock up water, canned foods, ammo and cash, gasoline in your vehicles,” one said days after the Washington rally.

The Q delusion requires fitting unexpected events into a bigger narrative. The riot in Washington was one such opportunity. The day before, many in the chat room were worried about antifa attacking their friends. Yet it was also clear they wanted a confrontation.

“I wish they’d storm the Congress and the Senate and pull all them treasonous guys out of there.”

As the rally began, participants uploaded dispatches from the ground. The mood was positive, even emotional. In the chat, they shared their real-time reactions as Mr. Trump’s supporters stormed the Capitol.

“Patriots are in the building. It’s beautiful.”

And when Mr. Biden went on television to demand an end to the siege, one chatter asked, “Does he not realize President Trump called us to siege the place?”

Another remarked, “Honestly, I think the patriots should have been allowed to go in there, grab those S.O.B.s and pull them out of the building and, you know, have an execution right there.”

But by the next morning, members who had called for the siege had changed their tune. Now it was antifa that was responsible for the Capitol raid and any violence that followed.

Over and over again, confusing decisions, unexpected outcomes and a lack of evidence were recast as part of Mr. Trump’s master plan.

“I’m hoping that he was planning on antifa showing up there and doing what they did,” one woman said. “And he has a master plan behind that. I’m hoping.”

They believed Mr. Trump would use his Washington rally to announce mass arrests and release long-awaited evidence supporting Q’s theories. None of that happened.

Instead of coming to grips with that loss, they moved on to another idea: Mr. Trump needed to allow the vote to be certified to spot his enemies. He could use the Insurrection Act at any moment, putting America under martial law and using the military to seize control of the government.

“I am ready to see something go down. I want to know that this is all real, or we’ve just been being yanked around by a bunch of idiots sitting in their bedrooms, throwing all this fake information out there. I mean, I want to believe that Trump is holding all the cards, and that he’s just being deceitful right now so that he can nail everybody.”

They had been through this cycle so many times before, with promises of lawsuits that could overturn the election or a Supreme Court intervention that Mr. Trump had planned for months. None of it came to pass. Still, they had hope.

“It’s very hard to be patient ’cause we — you know, remember, we’re like, ‘Oh, the executive order,’ and ‘We’re waiting for D.N.I. report.’ We’re waiting for this, we’re waiting for that, that passed, and then Jan. 6, and that passed, and then … it’s hard, but we have to stay focused, and I think we’re so close. I mean, there’s just a couple of days left.”

As the inauguration approached, signs were adding up in their favor. Thousands of National Guard troops were deployed to the city, and many of them were deputized to perform arrests — surely a sign that Mr. Trump’s plan for martial law would come true.

Days went by, and nothing. Yet, as the inauguration drew closer, it was still raised as a possibility.

One member described her prediction in vivid detail: “His farewell speech is going to be, he declares martial law, and then as he’s doing that, they’re arresting the people, like Biden’s administration and all those corrupt suckers, and that’s why they have all the security around the White House, Capitol Hill area. And as they’re doing that, he’s going to read to us all the evidence, show us everything, and lay it all out right there.“

But when Jan. 20 came, Mr. Trump left the White House, rattled off some accomplishments, said, “Have a good life,” then boarded a jet to Mar-a-Lago. Mr. Biden was inaugurated. Nothing they predicted came true.

When Mr. Biden’s inauguration played out as normal, participants were frustrated. By rejecting mainstream news, they embraced liars who fed them exactly what they wanted to hear.

“We know not to watch CNN. We know not to watch these people. But when we have people that we trust on the right, and we’re pushing that information out — because we don’t have many media sources, so the ones that come out, they need to be pretty damn good. And for them to take advantage of people’s hope? We cannot have that.”

If the Q movement had a slogan, it would be “Do your research.” The conspiracy is designed like a game. Discovering clues that clarify Q’s cryptic missives produces a eureka effect, which offers a hit of dopamine and improves memory retention. It’s the same satisfaction that comes from solving a puzzle or finding the answer to a riddle.

Believers apply the same approach to everyday news: Find information that confirms any existing beliefs, then use it to augment their understanding of the conspiracy. Reject facts or information that counter the existing beliefs. It’s one of the reasons they struggle to recruit their family members, unless they’re persuaded to do research themselves.

I wondered what would happen in the days after Mr. Biden’s inauguration. Rather than re-evaluate their approach in the wake of Q’s failures, many doubled down. The problem wasn’t that the whole worldview was false, just that they had been led astray by inaccurate reports and misinterpretations. Their response was to improve their process. They would develop a list of sources, vet credentials, link to original material, and view unconfirmed information skeptically. They were, in a sense, inventing journalism.

Others made excuses. Theories spread that Q was actually part of a deep state plot to keep Mr. Trump’s supporters complacent. A few members tied Q’s strategy to a C.I.A. psychological operation. And if that was true, their prophets, like Q and Mr. Trump and major personalities in the community, weren’t everything they hoped they would be.

“By us believing that, you know, there’s all these things going on behind the scenes. It’s preventing us from doing anything because we’re just sitting down, waiting and watching for all this to secretly happen. And I don’t think it’s happening,” one said.

“We can’t be digital warriors our whole life. We can’t be keyboard warriors our whole life,” another said, recommending they focus on banking, education and passing real laws instead. He added: “We can’t put all our eggs in one basket like we’re doing and waiting on Trump. Our forefathers never relied on one man. We rely on each other going forward.”

If the current version of the Q conspiracy theory dissolves, what happens to its followers? They already found a community, and their friendships weathered Mr. Biden’s inauguration. If anything, their bonds have been strengthened. The channel was thriving, keeping hope alive for dozens of followers. Right-wing activists were organizing with fervor on Signal and Telegram. A few in the chat discussed plans to meet in person.

“It didn’t play out the way we wanted, but it showed that we can — we’re powerful when we’re together,” one said. “It’s created a whole new era. It’s not done. It’s far from over.”

After the inauguration, Ron Watkins, one of the main pushers of QAnon’s theories, whom some suspect is actually Q, seemed to signal the end of the movement. In a message to followers, he focused on the strength of the community, writing, “As we enter into the next administration please remember all the friends and happy memories we made together over the past few years.”

The original version of the conspiracy seems in tatters, but the community is strong. And that will be harder to unravel.

“Trump has changed things forever. It’s a lot of seeds that he planted. And history is going to be very kind to him and the people that fought on the right side of the war.”

What should Q’s followers inspire in us? Anger? Sympathy?

The audio chat offers a clearer picture of these believers than the Facebook pages and Telegram channels where they also gather. The all-caps screeds of the internet give way to gentler moments, like when they talk about their pets or babysitting their grandkids. Many members were struggling in some way — financially or emotionally, with legal troubles or addiction. As Covid-19 swept their states, many got sick, and some family members died. A few members were recently out of prison. Another was living in a sober house.

“I don’t think they understand that we’re not all evil,” one member said about how the left views them. “Like you said, we’re not evil. We’re not bad people.”

As I listened over these three weeks, I saw that they’re drawn to Q and Mr. Trump for many reasons. The political status quo wasn’t working for them. Mr. Trump was an antidote to Washington and was beholden to neither party. And Q offered not just a political orientation but also a way to place themselves in a bigger narrative that explains life’s shortcomings.

Many believers have paid a price for their views. Some were shunned by friends and family. Apps and social networks, like this audio chat room, stepped in, offering a welcoming community with shared beliefs.

“Does anybody else’s family members on here think you’re crazy?” one asked.

“I have family that think that way. I think they’re crazy for not seeing what the heck’s going on,” another replied.

“I’ve stopped talking to every single person that isn’t on board with this,”another said.

“I can’t even express it enough — I’m so thankful for every person in this group.”

In the process, followers have become more isolated, stuck inside an echo chamber from which they may never escape.

Beneath the anger in their voices is often pain or confusion. When the chat dies down to just a few members, they’ll share stories about their struggles with affording health insurance or the shame of going on government assistance. Hearing them talk with one another, I could start understanding the pull of conspiracy communities — how they exploit the vulnerable and create a worldview out of shared enemies. Then you can watch those views harden.

And while none of it excuses participation in a dangerous collective delusion, it takes the complex process of radicalization and gives it a human dimension. What seemed like a preposterous descent into a kind of madness made slightly more sense.

“Not every politician is bad. Not every Democrat is bad. But we’re going to automatically assume that they’re deep state. So, I mean, you have people, a small few, that makes the majority look bad.”

As I spent more time in the group, I understood why the conspiracy has such gravitational pull. And while I didn't lose my way, I was taken aback by the experience. It turned my brain to mush. I was left rattled and deeply concerned. About what would become of this group when I left. And more important, how one can lessen the appeal of a conspiracy that gives so much purpose to people’s lives.

Listening in, I came to realize what extremism researchers and cult experts have long known to be true: You cannot just destroy a community and expect it to disappear when it is load bearing. If we are to deradicalize Q believers in a Biden era, how will we do it? What can we offer them in its place?

One woman had an idea for how to solve some of these problems. They could try hearing from their opponents directly. Maybe they could understand their point of view, learn what motivates them. But then she paused. “I’d love to get into their heads, but it scares the [expletive] out of me,” she said. “So I keep my distance and stay with you patriots.”

 

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I know you boys like yourself some MAGA show pony, Jenna Ryan, so a quick update. 
 

First she tried grifting some money for her legal defence.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/lawandcrime.com/u-s-capitol-siege/trump-supporter-who-took-private-plane-to-storm-the-capitol-and-then-begged-for-a-pardon-is-now-begging-for-money/amp/

 

When that was closed off she had an entitled little hissy fit before hastily deleting this tweet, much in keeping with her theme of self-incrimination.

 

EstZX2-UcAAfIGp?format=jpg&name=large

 

 

Now she’s grifting money for her legal defence fund on a Christian version of Go Fund Me.

 

Esti6q1VkAQsJxM?format=jpg&name=medium


 

And what better way to get the ball rolling than comparing your plight to that of Jesus on the cross...

 

 

 

 

 

Oh yeah, Jenna went there.

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