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10 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

Amazon have just wiped a huge site off the net which might be fine to many seeing as it's Parler but in the future they could do it again to other big sites when the reasons aren't so clear.

The site still exists - it just can't be hosted on AWS. Fair enough really - they are a private company with T&C's and it's their resources, not a national platform. Parler should really have had a plan to deal with that possibility and they are free to invest in their own servers or to try a different provider. Bad planning on their part really - if you allow unmoderated hate speech on your platform, some folks might get pissed off about it.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I would still prefer if police arrested people and put them in jail with all the rights and regulations, to a local baker incarcerating potential criminals in his cellar.

Give it a rest - no private business is incarcerating anyone. They make business decisions based on the best outcome for their - erm - business. Cuz, well, it is theirs after all.

There are literally hundreds of options to run virtual machines on and gazillions of terrabytes of server space throughout the world - Amazon just happens to be the easiest for numpties.

 

And, in the spirit of a free economy if there is a demand for a service someone will fill it.

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Free speech sounds great, and in one big forum with all speech, hate speech can be challenged. The problem with Parler or gab is that they only really attract those hate filled lunatics as most people dont give a shit about twitter's t&C's because they don't need to. So instead of parler having a platform that has all types of speech, they essentially just have a hate speech platform, and a horrifyingly potent and dangerous echo chamber.

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Free speech and democracy are two ideals that have been fucking ruined by the fact that hatred, division and lies speak far louder and travel more quickly and much further.

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16 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Give it a rest - no private business is incarcerating anyone. They make business decisions based on the best outcome for their - erm - business. Cuz, well, it is theirs after all.

There are literally hundreds of options to run virtual machines on and gazillions of terrabytes of server space throughout the world - Amazon just happens to be the easiest for numpties.

 

And, in the spirit of a free economy if there is a demand for a service someone will fill it.

But that is the point, it's a pointless whack-a-mole on one hand and gives a powerful tech company the right to deny service on political grounds. Amazon is here not even in FB's or Twitter's position of being responsible for content and I doubt anybody knew they were on Amazon's cloud. BTW, when clouds began I worked on promotional texts for some of the providers, they were all going on and on how the client's data will be absolutely safe, everything will be strictly separated, anonymous, your private locker in the sky etc.

 

Also, I don't think their motives are as innocent as you may think, Bezos is Turmp's enemy from before and all those companies will be taking positions to be in good stead with the new administration regarding calls they are too big and should be broken up, services unbundled etc. Amazon used to be world leader in cloud services so they probably have dozens or hundreds of equally or even more questionable clients.

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26 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I would still prefer if police arrested people and put them in jail with all the rights and regulations, to a local baker incarcerating potential criminals in his cellar.

The local baker isn't taking orders for nazi cakes

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9 minutes ago, M_B said:

The site still exists - it just can't be hosted on AWS. Fair enough really - they are a private company with T&C's and it's their resources, not a national platform. Parler should really have had a plan to deal with that possibility and they are free to invest in their own servers or to try a different provider. Bad planning on their part really - if you allow unmoderated hate speech on your platform, some folks might get pissed off about it.

 

Yeah Parler can't simply blame it all on others agreed. If Parler's owner isn't bullshitting though his recent comments are also a concern : that because of statements from Amazon, Google and Apple about dropping Parler, other places they turned to for hosting also turned them away. That kind of goes against the idea that if you don't like certain corps use others, if they're grouping up to decline services because those with monopoly power have spoken from on high and they've followed suit.

 

I was thinking about the servers part earlier too which should be the best solution if it can be afforded. It looks like any serious social media corp that's of a decent size wanting to feel safe about keeping their site online might be best investing in their own as soon as they're able to, instead of relying on people like Bezos to keep the amazon servers connected.

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5 minutes ago, SasaS said:

But that is the point, it's a pointless whack-a-mole on one hand and gives a powerful tech company the right to deny service on political grounds. Amazon is here not even in FB's or Twitter's position of being responsible for content and I doubt anybody knew they were on Amazon's cloud. BTW, when clouds began I worked on promotional texts for some of the providers, they were all going on and on how the client's data will be absolutely safe, everything will be strictly separated, anonymous, your private locker in the sky etc.

 

Also, I don't think their motives are as innocent as you may think, Bezos is Turmp's enemy from before and all those companies will be taking positions to be in good stead with the new administration regarding calls they are too big and should be broken up, services unbundled etc. Amazon used to be world leader in cloud services so they probably have dozens or hundreds of equally or even more questionable clients.

Of course - ANY private company has the right to deny service as long as they do not break Fed rules in doing so. Whistleblowers get fired everyday. Folks who attended this "demonstration" have been fired - in the words of the great Ivanka Trump - Find Something New. Find another provider - there is no shortage.

 

Bezos can do whatever the fuck he wants - it is his company. I could care less about his motives. That is the point. If he deems one client unacceptable it has nothing to do with any others and certainly doesn't compromise their service to other clients. What you are saying is that it is driven by public perception, and you know what - it is. Bad for business. See ya.

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4 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Yeah Parler can't simply blame it all on others agreed. If Parler's owner isn't bullshitting though his recent comments are also a concern : that because of statements from Amazon, Google and Apple about dropping Parler, other places they turned to for hosting also turned them away. That kind of goes against the idea that if you don't like certain corps use others, if they're grouping up to decline services because those with monopoly power have spoken from on high and they've followed suit.

 

I was thinking about the servers part earlier too which should be the best solution if it can be afforded. It looks like any serious social media corp that's of a decent size wanting to feel safe about keeping their site online might be best investing in their own as soon as they're able to, instead of relying on people like Bezos to keep the amazon servers connected.

I keep hearing right wing populism is a political phenomenon sponsored by big money. Surely they can invest in a platform which could not be removed without a court order and we are back were we started, the rule of law.

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It's nothing to do with politics. People are on Parler calling for Mike Pence to be hung or face a firing squad. Just days after armed mobs have stormed the Capitol equipped with knives, crude explosives, nooses and wrist ties. 

 

Maybe Amazon just realise that there's a chance that these people might be serious and, irrespective of Amazon's political leanings, they don't want Mike Pence to be killed by a mob of bad losing, wild, conspiracy theorists, they don't think it's morally right to stage a platform which allows this sort of potentially criminal rhetoric and, ultimately, they can't be arsed with the reputational damage and fallout that would follow if one of the loons acted on the calls to violence scattered all over Parler. 

 

Why can't the relevant authorities investigate and act on any inchoate criminal offences like incitement or conspiracy at the same time that Amazon etc say fuck this, we want to be as far removed from this vile craziness as is possible? It doesn't have to be one or the other. 

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So are we saying that asking for a cake with “Congrats Barry & Dave” written on it is NOT the same as asking for a forum in which you can plan murderous acts of domestic terrorism on government institutions? It’s PC gone mad

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People need to start pushing back.

 

Ordinary folk are averse to conflict, that's why bullies get away with what they do.

 

The German soldiers who marched into the Rhineland were told to retreat if they encountered armed resistance but didn't so took the piss. Atlee's fucking hanky sealed the deal.

 

That's why shitbags get away with things. Entire neighbourhood in fear of teenage drug dealers on a BMX. 

 

That's the one thing shitbags are good at, knowing how to use your unbuilt sense of preservation against you to get what they want, allowing them to punch considerably above their weight.

 

Anyone who says violence never solved anything clearly haven't been paying attention. Human history is non stop violence.

 

Without their champion in the white House, who to be fair was the most powerful man in the world, all these cunts should be fair game for a taste of their own medicine.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

People need to start pushing back.

 

Ordinary folk are averse to conflict, that's why bullies get away with what they do.

 

The German soldiers who marched into the Rhineland were told to retreat if they encountered armed resistance but didn't so took the piss. Atlee's fucking hanky se sealed the deal.

 

That's why shitbags get away with things. Engtier neighbourhood in fear of teenage drug dealers on a BMX. 

 

That's the one thing shitbags are good at, knowing how to use yours unbuilt sense of preservation against you to get what they want, allowing them to punch considerably above their weight.

 

Anyone who says violence never solved anything clearly haven't been paying attention. Human history is non stop violence.

 

Without their champion in the white House, who to be fair was the most powerful man in the world, all these cujts should be fair game for a taste of their own medicine.

 

 

Maybe the Germans didn’t know about that particular order.  

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52 minutes ago, Nelly-Torres said:

It's nothing to do with politics. People are on Parler calling for Mike Pence to be hung or face a firing squad. Just days after armed mobs have stormed the Capitol equipped with knives, crude explosives, nooses and wrist ties. 

 

Maybe Amazon just realise that there's a chance that these people might be serious and, irrespective of Amazon's political leanings, they don't want Mike Pence to be killed by a mob of bad losing, wild, conspiracy theorists, they don't think it's morally right to stage a platform which allows this sort of potentially criminal rhetoric and, ultimately, they can't be arsed with the reputational damage and fallout that would follow if one of the loons acted on the calls to violence scattered all over Parler. 

 

Why can't the relevant authorities investigate and act on any inchoate criminal offences like incitement or conspiracy at the same time that Amazon etc say fuck this, we want to be as far removed from this vile craziness as is possible? It doesn't have to be one or the other. 

This is it, Parler are totally unapologetic about how it encourages this behaviour.  Amazon's view is that it is responsible for what it hosts and, if Parler is not willing to moderate its platform (that is actual hate speech and calls to violence) then it will step in.  I'm sure it's right there in the Amazon T&Cs.

 

Wish Amazon took a similar approach to some of the blag shite sold on its marketplace tbh...

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1 minute ago, SasaS said:

I still think acting should be the responsibility of relevant authorities, not the technical services provider.

 

 

 

Not a dig at you, just a question related to your post.

 

If the police have punished people in real life for their actions on twitter, why aren't they doing the same for parler? Have there been any cases of people being tracked down and reprimanded?

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1 minute ago, Rick Sanchez C-137 said:

 

Not a dig at you, just a question related to your post.

 

If the police have punished people in real life for their actions on twitter, why aren't they doing the same for parler? Have there been any cases of people being tracked down and reprimanded?

With the massive lack of privacy measures on Parler, and subsequent hack, there's a fair chance quite a few individuals over here might find this out soon.

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Parler are suing Amazon via a one man band and asking for the court to grant an injunction to stop Amazon taking the site down, which is, er, a little late. Maybe needed to do that before Amazon took it down. Anyway, Mike Dunford has taken a quick look at it and appears unimpressed. Thread.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Red Phoenix said:

It's clear that with Parler right-wingers on there can come out with all types of shit and because it's a free speech site nothing is removed. It's also not good how powerful corps like google, apple, facebook and amazon have become. Amazon have just wiped a huge site off the net which might be fine to many seeing as it's Parler but in the future they could do it again to other big sites when the reasons aren't so clear. It's not healthy and eventually there has to be some type of alternative solution to how this works because if it isn't solved it's a monopoly and they can shut down all competition.

 

And no this isn't about me being upset about Parler it's about the bigger picture. I think Anubis might have been on Parler more over the last week or so looking a what Trumpsters have been raving about than I've ever been on there, unless he's been getting those screenshots from someone else. And no I don't think Anubis is a right wing Trump supporter.

 

We should be able to raise concerns about these corps and the power they have without that leading to accusations of being right wingers, etc, though. It's not good at all to ignore that these corps are/could be monopolies just because some raving Trumpsters have been shut down on Parler.

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55250366

 

And it's probably not a good idea to think the Biden admin is going to do much about this unless enough people speak out either :

 

 

If Parler can be wiped off the face of the earth by AWS refusing to do business with them, well they should be questioning their 3rd party risk management strategy. They aren't the only cloud provider out there. And if they are running an application that is so controversial that runs the risk of of pissing off its suppliers to an extent they no longer want to do business with them, perhaps they need a different technical solution. If they want to build a private cloud, I've got an absolutely smashing one I could sell them and I can sell them their internet solution too. 

 

On the other side of this, if we feel the likes of AWS are abusing their monopoly position (I personally don't think they are), there are plenty of antitrust laws globally which can be used to stop their abuse of dominant market position. 

 

Separately I think we need to consider the power these large tech companies hold and look at do they need to be broken up, but I don't think this is the issue here. The issue is simple, Parler is full of cunts, there has been incitement and the organisation of behaviour that has resulted in the deaths of people. It would feel for the sake of $300k per year Parler paid for their hosting fees on AWS it was hardly worth the arsing about and the reputational damage it could cause Amazon and their $280bn annual turnover. 

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AWS Acceptable Use Policy (amazon.com)

 

No Illegal, Harmful, or Offensive Use or Content

 

You may not use, or encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to use, the Services or AWS Site for any illegal, harmful, fraudulent, infringing or offensive use, or to transmit, store, display, distribute or otherwise make available content that is illegal, harmful, fraudulent, infringing or offensive. Prohibited activities or content include:

  • Illegal, Harmful or Fraudulent Activities. Any activities that are illegal, that violate the rights of others, or that may be harmful to others, our operations or reputation, including disseminating, promoting or facilitating child pornography, offering or disseminating fraudulent goods, services, schemes, or promotions, make-money-fast schemes, ponzi and pyramid schemes, phishing, or pharming.
  • Infringing Content. Content that infringes or misappropriates the intellectual property or proprietary rights of others.
  • Offensive Content. Content that is defamatory, obscene, abusive, invasive of privacy, or otherwise objectionable, including content that constitutes child pornography, relates to bestiality, or depicts non-consensual sex acts.
  • Harmful Content. Content or other computer technology that may damage, interfere with, surreptitiously intercept, or expropriate any system, program, or data, including viruses, Trojan horses, worms, time bombs, or cancelbots.

 

Terms of service:

 

1.4. In connection with your use of the Services, you are responsible for maintaining licenses and adhering to the license terms of any software you run. If we reasonably believe any of Your Content violates the law, infringes or misappropriates the rights of any third party, or otherwise violates a material term of the Agreement (including the documentation, the Service Terms, or the Acceptable Use Policy) (“Prohibited Content”), we will notify you of the Prohibited Content and may request that such content be removed from the Services or access to it be disabled. If you do not remove or disable access to the Prohibited Content within 2 business days of our notice, we may remove or disable access to the Prohibited Content or suspend the Services to the extent we are not able to remove or disable access to the Prohibited Content. Notwithstanding the foregoing, we may remove or disable access to any Prohibited Content without prior notice in connection with illegal content, where the content may disrupt or threaten the Services or in accordance with applicable law or any judicial, regulatory or other governmental order or request. In the event that we remove Your Content without prior notice, we will provide prompt notice to you unless prohibited by law. We terminate the accounts of repeat infringers in appropriate circumstances.

 

Good luck, fash.

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1 hour ago, SasaS said:

I keep hearing right wing populism is a political phenomenon sponsored by big money. Surely they can invest in a platform which could not be removed without a court order and we are back were we started, the rule of law.

What happened with your account then? Did they just log you out and your password didn't work or is it still running for now? 

6 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

If Parler can be wiped off the face of the earth by AWS refusing to do business with them, well they should be questioning their 3rd party risk management strategy. They aren't the only cloud provider out there. And if they are running an application that is so controversial that runs the risk of of pissing off its suppliers to an extent they no longer want to do business with them, perhaps they need a different technical solution. If they want to build a private cloud, I've got an absolutely smashing one I could sell them and I can sell them their internet solution too. 

 

On the other side of this, if we feel the likes of AWS are abusing their monopoly position (I personally don't think they are), there are plenty of antitrust laws globally which can be used to stop their abuse of dominant market position. 

 

Separately I think we need to consider the power these large tech companies hold and look at do they need to be broken up, but I don't think this is the issue here. The issue is simple, Parler is full of cunts, there has been incitement and the organisation of behaviour that has resulted in the deaths of people. It would feel for the sake of $300k per year Parler paid for their hosting fees on AWS it was hardly worth the arsing about and the reputational damage it could cause Amazon and their $280bn annual turnover. 

Great work mate @aws 

 

 

 

 

People were getting arrested during the London riots for posting things on facebook like 'I might go and smash curry window in, anyone want a telly?" so this Trump ban and Parler stuff can hardly be seen as a new phenomenon of clamping down on free-speech. As people have said anyway, lies and vitriol can't be encouraged to be spread so any service provider is providing a service to humanity by refusing to host it. 

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1 hour ago, Red Phoenix said:

It's clear that with Parler right-wingers on there can come out with all types of shit and because it's a free speech site nothing is removed. It's also not good how powerful corps like google, apple, facebook and amazon have become. Amazon have just wiped a huge site off the net which might be fine to many seeing as it's Parler but in the future they could do it again to other big sites when the reasons aren't so clear. It's not healthy and eventually there has to be some type of alternative solution to how this works because if it isn't solved it's a monopoly and they can shut down all competition.

 

And no this isn't about me being upset about Parler it's about the bigger picture. I think Anubis might have been on Parler more over the last week or so looking a what Trumpsters have been raving about than I've ever been on there, unless he's been getting those screenshots from someone else. And no I don't think Anubis is a right wing Trump supporter.

 

We should be able to raise concerns about these corps and the power they have without that leading to accusations of being right wingers, etc, though. It's not good at all to ignore that these corps are/could be monopolies just because some raving Trumpsters have been shut down on Parler.

 

5E7F4526-7D56-49B8-9909-C08209254023.png

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