US Election 2020 Thread

[PestiRed]

Trump got her killed when he legitimised conspiracy theories like QAnon. He created a situation where his supporters ended up going down crazy conspiracy rabbit holes leading them to take actions with dangerous consequences

[mattyq]

5 minutes ago, SasaS said:

I was mostly responding to Stig's she deserved to be killed comment. As you said, we were not there. She didn't have a knife at a child's throat, she was a member of a right wing mob storming the houses of parliament in an unprecedented political event. For all we know, she may have been a dangerous ringleader urging everybody on with a deadly intent, or she may have been an unhinged right winger radicalized through constant echochamber exposure and caught in a mob psychology of the moment. For me, it's basic human decency to refrain from expressions such as she got what she deserved or not a great loss to humanity, at least within 24 hours from a person's death.

Fair enough and I agree

[cloggypop]

She worked as an enlisted security forces controller, a job whose duties include guarding gates at Air Force bases, and was deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq.

 

She then served in the Air Force Reserves and the Air National Guard. In the Guard, she was assigned to a unit based near Washington that is known as the “Capital Guardians,” because one of their primary missions is defending the city. Security forces in the squadron regularly train with riot shields and clubs for what the Air Force calls “civil disturbance missions.” She was deployed twice more, to the United Arab Emirates in 2012 and 2014, according to an Air Force spokeswoman.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/us/who-was-ashli-babbitt.html

 

Bit mad if she didn't know the risk involved really. 

[Red Phoenix]

I think one of the bigger questions that's been brought up already in the thread but never really gone into much is how the fuck they managed to get in there in the first place.

 

I'm sure some of the US establishment wouldn't have thought it too much of a bad idea to allow them in eventually once the cronies had been shuffled off to safety and then take advantage of the chaos that's currently going on. Greenwald, Snowden and others are already talking about this to some extent too.

[Gnasher]

14 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

It's the US gov. If my house a $750 billion defence budget I'd like to think I could try and find some way of taking them down non-lethally.

I thought they had one police force who's job it was to protect government buildings and in particular that one. 

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

She worked as an enlisted security forces controller, a job whose duties include guarding gates at Air Force bases, and was deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq.

 

She then served in the Air Force Reserves and the Air National Guard. In the Guard, she was assigned to a unit based near Washington that is known as the “Capital Guardians,” because one of their primary missions is defending the city. Security forces in the squadron regularly train with riot shields and clubs for what the Air Force calls “civil disturbance missions.” She was deployed twice more, to the United Arab Emirates in 2012 and 2014, according to an Air Force spokeswoman.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/us/who-was-ashli-babbitt.html

 

Bit mad if she didn't know the risk involved really. 

Goddam all American fuckinv hero slain by the state.

 

[Rico1304]

15 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

It's the US gov. If my house a $750 billion defence budget I'd like to think I could try and find some way of taking them down non-lethally.

I may be wrong, but I don’t think all of it goes in defence one building.  
 

The police here were faced with a mob coming at them, they knew they wanted to storm the building, they knew they were armed. They disobeyed direct commands, they were told they’d be shot. At any point she could have walked away. Stupid is as stupid does. 

[Geoff Woade]

5 minutes ago, cloggypop said:

She worked as an enlisted security forces controller, a job whose duties include guarding gates at Air Force bases, and was deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq.

 

She then served in the Air Force Reserves and the Air National Guard. In the Guard, she was assigned to a unit based near Washington that is known as the “Capital Guardians,” because one of their primary missions is defending the city. Security forces in the squadron regularly train with riot shields and clubs for what the Air Force calls “civil disturbance missions.” She was deployed twice more, to the United Arab Emirates in 2012 and 2014, according to an Air Force spokeswoman.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/07/us/who-was-ashli-babbitt.html

 

Bit mad if she didn't know the risk involved really. 

I guarantee you that she will have felt safer doing what she did because she’ll have thought she’d have been seen as ‘one of their own’ by security forces.

It would never had occurred to her she’d be seen as ‘the bad guy’.

[Red Phoenix]

8 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

I thought they had one police force who's job it was to protect government buildings and in particular that one. 

 

Yeah it's the Capitol Police.

 

7 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

I may be wrong, but I don’t think all of it goes in defence one building.  

 

I may be wrong too but if they're part of the federal gov then I think part of that $750 billion could go towards them being better prepared for stuff like this. Or maybe it's not about the money at all, if BLM and anarchists had been armed and trying to storm the place maybe they'd have defended it better and saw it as more of a threat.

 

Trumpsters might have wandered around for a few hours like they were having a museum visit (once they'd smashed their way in) but I think some anarchists might have made a bit more of a mess.

[mattyq]

10 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

I think one of the bigger questions that's been brought up already in the thread but never really gone into much is how the fuck they managed to get in there in the first place.

 

I'm sure some of the US establishment wouldn't have thought it too much of a bad idea to allow them in eventually once the cronies had been shuffled off to safety and then take advantage of the chaos that's currently going on. Greenwald, Snowden and others are already talking about this to some extent too.

Without going all conspiracy nuts there is deffo something very odd about this.

Seems likely there was, at least, collusion if not conspiracy

[Rico1304]

2 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Yeah it's the Capitol Police.

 

 

I may be wrong too but if they're part of the federal gov then I think part of that $750 billion could go towards them being better prepared for stuff like this. Or maybe it's not about the money at all, if BLM and anarchists had been armed and trying to storm the place maybe they'd have defended it better and saw it as more of a threat.

 

Trumpsters might have wandered around for a few hours like they were having a museum visit (once they'd smashed their way in) but I think some anarchists might have made a bit more of a mess.

Yes, that’s not what you said though is it? 
 

Hold on, are you really saying this was a benign sightseeing visit infiltrated by anarchists? Why’d they take guns? Why’d they take pipe bombs? Why’d they take zipties?  
 

You really have gone full Hades.  I predict 3 months before you have a becks and say something racist - in fact, haven’t we been here before? 

[Gnasher]

25 minutes ago, halewood pete said:

Trump has time now to play a few rounds of golf with his new Korean buddy. Just hope young Kim is not as proficient as his father who only played one round of golf as a child and hit 18 hole in ones, this incredible feat was witnessed by the whole of the Korean secret service.

 

A similar tale of a world leaders genius passing down to his offspring can be found closer to home regarding the prime minister's one year old child Wilfred, portraits of outstanding art drawn by the child have already surfaced and their are rumours that the young sprog scrawls an almost identical copy of Edvard Munchs the scream every time he sees Keir Starmer. The drawings have been validated by the whole department the BBC political correspondents.

[Rocky Sullivan]

1 hour ago, SasaS said:

Value of human life obviously changes according to that human life's political leanings.

Yes. The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi. Fuck them.

[Rico1304]

 

[Rico1304]

 

[Sugar Ape]

[SasaS]

My impression was that Capitol police were initially overwhelmed and later focused on defending the representatives, leaving the halls to the rioters. It is still unclear who was supposed to react as a federal help. Local MPD said they engaged when they were asked for help, I read at one place it was the Mayor (D) who turned down deploying the National Guard, some say there was possible deference to Trump on the federal level and he obviously didn't want to deploy. I'd say it is more likely a combination of factors than an outright conspiracy or collusion on every level. People tend to forget this has never happened before, which may have influenced decision making. It is still not clear what was the actual plan of Trump supporters, if there was any, to seize the building and wait for the coup, seize the ballot boxes, occupy the building thus preventing confirmation. It looked pretty chaotic in many respects. I don't know how homogeneous these groups actually are with respect to some ultimate agenda.

[Bjornebye]

1 hour ago, SasaS said:

Value of human life obviously changes according to that human life's political leanings.

Do explain yourself. She had broken into The Capitol Building with a rampaging mob. I mean, we all know if they had all been BLM protestors that they would have been absolutely hammered. You dick.  

1 hour ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

 

I agree with you here, but I'm not sure how this is consistent with your previous comments about unarmed protesters and rioters who managed to get themselves shot in, ahem, other countries.

I'm glad you agree with me. It doesn't however compare with someone running across a field and throwing a stone over a fence now does it. No it doesn't. But you know that. If someone broke into the Israeli Parliament Building I would say exactly the same thing. But again, you know that. Nice try though. 

[Gnasher]

28 minutes ago, mattyq said:

Without going all conspiracy nuts there is deffo something very odd about this.

Seems likely there was, at least, collusion if not conspiracy

It does feel that way, you cant really see weapons being brandished in the video footage., a normal crowd over the states at most rallies would involve a percentage of the crowd possessing guns. The rally was not spontaneous and was authorised and the services had plenty of time to act so it does pose questions.

[Rico1304]

2 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

It does feel that way, you cant really see weapons being brandished in the video footage., a normal crowd over the states at most rallies would involve a percentage of the crowd possessing guns. The rally was not spontaneous and was authorised and the services had plenty of time to act so it does pose questions.

Yes, almost like the president asked for it to happen, encouraged it to happen and facilitated it happening. Then sat back enjoying watching it happen. 

[Red Phoenix]

41 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

You really have gone full Hades.  I predict 3 months before you have a becks and say something racist - in fact, haven’t we been here before? 

 

What a pathetic way to try and score cheap points. That happened over a decade ago now I think. When would it start to be accepted that that's not really who or what I am? Maybe 50 years? 100?

 

Maybe go and join a local cancel culture branch or something if you're so interested in that shit?

 

And yeah Hades Hades Hades, I keep reading it but all I seem to have done is be sick of the way democrats are at times and try to have some type of understanding of Trump's supporters which sometimes causes arguments. Maybe that should be cancelled too? No understanding, just division! No complaints, compliance only!

 

And more than once I've read that I'd have been over there with the protesting Trumpsters if I was in the US. Someone on the far left with that lot? Maybe I'd have an Israeli flag draped around me too to show solidarity with Trump's support of their gov? But I thought you were sick of me going on about Palestine too so which one is it? Consistency Rico. For a start there's no way I'd be anywhere near some fucked up protest near armed US cops who I wouldn't trust for a second if things turned sour. So no I don't think it'd happen.

 

A few years back I was told that I'd end up in the BNP too I think? I don't think that's happened yet either.

 

Trumpsters have had law and order and respect for government institutions drilled into them for years on end, it's who they are. Anarchists don't have any type of similar beliefs, it's likely the place would've been properly trashed and could've gone up in flames as well.

 

Oh and the guns and stuff the Trumpsters had : yeah if the cronies hadn't been cleared out that whole situation could've been a lot worse, I agree with that.

[Gnasher]

45 minutes ago, Geoff Woade said:

I guarantee you that she will have felt safer doing what she did because she’ll have thought she’d have been seen as ‘one of their own’ by security forces.

It would never had occurred to her she’d be seen as ‘the bad guy’.

I think you may be bang on the button, some may have stood aside and ushered her through whilst the one line had different orders as she got deeper into the building and she took the security services earlier inaction as the norm. Just my hunch.

[Rico1304]

6 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

What a pathetic way to try and score cheap points. That happened over a decade ago now I think. When would it start to be accepted that that's not really who or what I am? Maybe 50 years? 100?

 

Maybe go and join a local cancel culture branch or something if you're so interested in that shit?

 

And yeah Hades Hades Hades, I keep reading it but all I seem to have done is be sick of the way democrats are at times and try to have some type of understanding of Trump's supporters which sometimes causes arguments. Maybe that should be cancelled too? No understanding, just division! No complaints, compliance only!

 

And more than once I've read that I'd have been over there with the protesting Trumpsters if I was in the US. Someone on the far left with that lot? Maybe I'd have an Israeli flag draped around me too to show solidarity with Trump's support of their gov? But I thought you were sick of me going on about Palestine too so which one is it? Consistency Rico. For a start there's no way I'd be anywhere near some fucked up protest near armed US cops who I wouldn't trust for a second if things turned sour. So no I don't think it'd happen.

 

A few years back I was told that I'd end up in the BNP too I think? I don't think that's happened yet either.

 

Trumpsters have had law and order and respect for government institutions drilled into them for years on end, it's who they are. Anarchists don't have any type of similar beliefs, it's likely the place would've been properly trashed and could've have gone up in flames as well.

 

Full Hades!

If you keep hearing it then maybe, just maybe there are a few people thinking the same thing. 
 

You’ve said yourself, several times, that you are susceptible to being dragged into this type of

thing.  

[SasaS]

9 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

Do explain yourself. She had broken into The Capitol Building with a rampaging mob. I mean, we all know if they had all been BLM protestors that they would have been absolutely hammered. You dick.  

 

I thought I did. Also, applying your logic, if they have been BLM, they would have deserved to be absolutely hammered, so what is your problem? (And consider yourself insulted back, I live the choice of word to your superior imagination).

[Red Phoenix]

4 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

If you keep hearing it then maybe, just maybe there are a few people thinking the same thing. 
 

You’ve said yourself, several times, that you are susceptible to being dragged into this type of

thing.  

 

I think the Hades thing is a simple way of shutting down debate to be honest or attempting to wind me up, but I get that the way I argue sometimes is also off and I said sorry for that earlier on. And I've said myself several times that I'm susceptible to being dragged into what? Support for Trump? Israel? Fascism? I've no idea what you're on about. I think right wingers would for a large part fucking detest me if they knew my views.