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Nathaniel Phillips

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Just now, belarus said:

He reads the game better, is positionally better, isn’t rash, doesn’t drag the shape of the entire back line out with his positioning, and doesn’t fly into headers and tackles that are not there to be even contemplated. If he maintains what he’s done for us, he will be better than Lovren ever was in my eyes. 
 

My point about Spearing was not what you’ve taken from it - you said Phillips is akin to spearing when he came in, buts it’s the polar opposite. Spearing had been hyped while he came through the ranks, nobody ever really rated Nat. Spearing was nothing more than average whenever he played and therefore a disappointment, whereas Philips has exceeded the non-existent expectations by improving with every game and throwing the odd excellent performance in there. Not sure where Lucas fits into any of that.

 

If you think that he's better than Lovren is not a better centre back than him then I don't really know where to go with this. Lovren wasn't good enough for us but they are miles apart. Phlllips is rash, does dive in at times and his lack of pace has been shown up a few times.

 

My point about Spearing (Spearing had a decent start to his Liverpool career and ultimately tailed off) and players like him is that mistakes by seasoned internationals are more likely to be highlighted and scrutinised. Nobody expected Phillips to do as well as he has done and everyone likes an underdog or someone.coming through the academy. Someone like Lovren who cost a bit of money at the time is expected to better than he was. The bar of expectation is way lower for Phillips. 

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9 minutes ago, RobbieOR said:

 

If you think that he's better than Lovren is not a better centre back than him then I don't really know where to go with this. Lovren wasn't good enough for us but they are miles apart. Phlllips is rash, does dive in at times and his lack of pace has been shown up a few times.

 

My point about Spearing (Spearing had a decent start to his Liverpool career and ultimately tailed off) and players like him is that mistakes by seasoned internationals are more likely to be highlighted and scrutinised. Nobody expected Phillips to do as well as he has done and everyone likes an underdog or someone.coming through the academy. Someone like Lovren who cost a bit of money at the time is expected to better than he was. The bar of expectation is way lower for Phillips. 

Spearing may have done the odd promising thing in a few games, but 90% of his time on the pitch, he was nothing more than average. Even if potentially people upscale what they saw because they wanted him to succeed at first. Phillips has had to get to this status from the other side of that coin. He was actually a “fucking hell, we are having to bring him in” situation, to then putting solid displays in which improved by the game.

 

Lovren was, in my opinion, a totally liability 50% of the time, but did have a good game in him every now and again, usually when we were under the cosh and up against it. Nat is steady and constant. I’d take 5 years of what we’ve seen from Nat since February, over the Lovren rollercoaster we endured.

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We’ve conceded 9 goals in out last 14 games (3 against Real Madrid) with him at the back. We’ve been crippled with injuries. He’s done superbly and managed to score a very important goal. But yeah let’s sell him. I really despair sometimes. 

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Lovren has considerably more natural ability than Phillips but is a complete headcase. Mentally they are polar opposites on the pitch. Phillips knows his limitations, makes small adjustments during games, avoids risks, plays the percentages. Lovren thinks he's Baresi.

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3 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Predictably, this thread has turned into "he's amazing, better than Lovren" vs. "he's terrible". Sick.

You don’t have to be amazing to be better than Lovren

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2 minutes ago, belarus said:

You don’t have to be amazing to be better than Lovren

Maybe, but it's a bit of a mental shout to say that someone who is 24 years old and has about 20 games of experience at a high level is better than someone who has had a long career and played in a Champions League and World Cup final. Like, it's quite early to say this. 

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1 minute ago, 3 Stacks said:

Maybe, but it's a bit of a mental shout to say that someone who is 24 years old and has about 20 games of experience at a high level is better than someone who has had a long career and played in a Champions League and World Cup final. Like, it's quite early to say this. 

I haven’t said that - I’ve said I’d take 5 years of the Phillips we’ve seen in his short spell, taking a steady run of that level, over what we got from Lovren.

 

Djimi Traore played in a champions league final. Loads of the Greek team in 2004 wouldn’t even get a look in here. So irrelevant when people use that argument

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5 minutes ago, belarus said:

I haven’t said that - I’ve said I’d take 5 years of the Phillips we’ve seen in his short spell, taking a steady run of that level, over what we got from Lovren.

 

Djimi Traore played in a champions league final. Loads of the Greek team in 2004 wouldn’t even get a look in here. So irrelevant when people use that argument

Look, Lovren was an average CB at the top level, but he's not Djimi Traore. It's not irrelevant. 

 

People in this thread have compared him favorably to Lovren and even Gomez and Matip. It's just weird. I get people like him and it's a nice story, but come on.

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His lack of pace is telling to a Klopp team. He simply isnt good enough when the first choices are available. Is he prepared to stay and be 4th or 5th choice and play in a couple of cup games? Credit to him if he is.

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Phillips is one of the reasons our attack is struggling, if he gets 0 games next season it would be great. 

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14 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Dude, get the PPG sorted

Phillips started 15, we conceded 9. 

He was subbed on in 2 other games (Everton H and Spurs A) and we conceded 2 goals when he was on the pitch 

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3 minutes ago, Razoray said:

Phillips started 15, we conceded 9. 

He was subbed on in 2 other games (Everton H and Spurs A) and we conceded 2 goals when he was on the pitch 

Points

Per

Game

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I would like Phillips to stay on as 5th choice but he’s not better than Lovren for us. Lovren had some memorably awful games, but he was very good most of the time. He was a fair bit quicker than Phillips was too.

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30 minutes ago, Code said:

Phillips is one of the reasons our attack is struggling, if he gets 0 games next season it would be great. 

Hahaha

12 minutes ago, Razoray said:

Phillips started 15, we conceded 9. 

He was subbed on in 2 other games (Everton H and Spurs A) and we conceded 2 goals when he was on the pitch 

We’ve lost 3 in 19 with him playing, one being the cl game against Madrid.

 

Since Christmas we lost 6 of the 11 games without him.

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He needs to be playing - we saw the improvement in him playing week in week out. He can't go back to being our 5th choice - for his sake he needs to go and he is probably at his highest point fee wise. He isn't good enough for us - our run coincided with Fab returning to the middle - I think that had more affect on our performances. 

 

He's better than Spearing - a slow short arse who pointed a lot. I'd say he's more like Warnock. 

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12 minutes ago, belarus said:

Hahaha

We’ve lost 3 in 19 with him playing, one being the cl game against Madrid.

 

Since Christmas we lost 6 of the 11 games without him.

To be fair it does not surprise me that our record was worse without him as i'd guess most if not all of those 11 games had a midfielder maybe two playing at centre half...weakening both areas of the park.

 

And that isn't a knock on Phillips by way, I think he has done OK and if he wants to stay as 4th or 5th choice, playing in the cups and acting as cover then he has earned that chance IMO.

 

But if he wants to play regularly then he will be IMO better placed at a team in the lower half who defend a lot deeper than we do and where pace and the ability to play out from back and use ball progressively is not a requirement.

 

His and Williams' poor use of the ball and lack of ability to carry it and pass it progressively is the main reason we have found ourselves fucking about with ball at back a lot more, with bad short passes inviting teams to press us/win it off us close to our box....we have mostly got away with it in terms of it costing us goals, but it also blunts our attacking play and castrates our full backs....

 

All that said though Phillips has done well at defending our box, clearing headers and blocks....but as admirable as all that is, it does not make him a fit for a team who want to defend and play as we do ideally....he has done ok in a team that is a shadow of the one it was before when it had all the right shaped pegs in the right holes.

 

 

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If he chooses to leave then I don't think it'll be due to lack of ambition or not believing in himself, his stock is as high as its ever going to be at this point, he might decide to cash in those chips now and get into a strong mid table side, rather than hanging around here too long and then maybe never getting the chance to make that step.

 

Like choosing between moving to someone like Newcastle for next season, or warming our bench, getting forgotten about, and then only getting offers from teams like Bournemouth the year after. 

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5 hours ago, RobbieOR said:

A lot of the discussion around him is the same when Flanagan (and Spearing to a lesser extent) came into the team a few years ago and did well for a bit. Ultimately they never going to make it for a good team and what happens is the quality tells after a run of games. It happened against Real Madrid, they knew he was the weak link in the first leg and targeted him. Stacks is right too about him probably wanting more game time. No point in him sitting on our bench not improving because if were to use to him he'd be completely rusty.

Flanagan missed the entire 2014-15 season through injury.

 

This myth that his form in 2014 was a flash in the pan is complete bollocks.

 

He was awesome in almost every game.

 

He just never recovered from that injury, sadly.

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3 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

We’ve conceded 9 goals in out last 14 games (3 against Real Madrid) with him at the back. We’ve been crippled with injuries. He’s done superbly and managed to score a very important goal. But yeah let’s sell him. I really despair sometimes. 

He's also so much better in the ball than I gave him credit for.

 

He rarely panics, and both his choice and weight of pass are very good.

 

The one question mark is whether he can play well coming in here and there.

 

Part if his form must surely come down to the run of games he's had.

 

That may be a problem next season.

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