Nathaniel Phillips

[El Dangerous]

18 minutes ago, belarus said:

He’s not a bit shit though 

Mancs used to say the same about Nicky Butt or Phil Neville. He’s certainly limited for why we want from our centre backs but he’s carried himself very well this season.

[m0e]

6 hours ago, Skidfingers McGonical said:

Just build the statue already.

I so want to give you your 3,000th rep for that. But I'm out.

 

Someone do the honours.

[Arnaud]

5 hours ago, JohnnyH said:

I hope he's sold.  He's not good enough for where we want to be, which is not 5th.  He seems a lovely lad.  He's had a dream few months that would never have happened if it wasn't for the extreme injuries in the back line.  He's 24 now and does not need to be going back to 5th choice CB.  He should move on and get starts for teams in the lower half of this league.  If you remove the romance of this (although I don't quite get the romance of having a limited footballer who's good at heading the ball away) he's simply not of the level we need to get back to winning leagues and european cups.  

 

We need 4 top-class footballing centre backs. That's not Nat Phillips.  

Totally agree with you, mate, but supporting a club like Liverpool FC also means some romance involvement doesn’t it ? Just a little bit at least, right ? 

[3 Stacks]

I don't get the debate with him. Done a good job this season. Beyond that, he likely won't play and therefore should leave this summer.

[Kevin D]

4 hours ago, JohnnyH said:

Don't worry, I hate myself.

 

Yeah, there is that.  I think it'd be a shame if he did just waste his career by rarely even making the bench when he should be first choice somewhere at his age.  But if he's happy to do that, then fair enough.

He's a Bolton fan isn't he?  

 

I don't mean romance like the sporting romance of when Trent said "I'm just a young lad from Liverpool who's dream has come true" when we won the CL, more the romance fans attribute to the idea of a limited player being some kind of romantic hero precisely because he's limited and seem to celebrate the fact he's playing as the club lurches from one bad performance to the next resulting in us languishing miles away form where we want to be and really struggling to just get into the top 4 for CL football.

 

It's grand that he's a good header of the ball and is clearly good at that last ditch - just clear it - defending, but that's one of the main problems we've had that has caused us to have such a bad season,. We've no composed playing out from the back defending.  That's not Phillip's fault as he can only do what he can do, but it is an issue that can only be fixed without him in the team. 

 

"We can easily forgive a child who's afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light."

 

Plato.

[El Dangerous]

9 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

I don't get the debate with him. Done a good job this season. Beyond that, he likely won't play and therefore should leave this summer.

Nah, we have no idea how well Virgil will recover and a pretty good idea how Gomez and Matip will. Even if Virgil has had a dream recovery and rehab he’ll still have the obligatory muscle strains that come with a lengthy lay off so we should definitely have a 5th choice. Nat is now a known quantity and is perfect for the role of 5th choice. If our injury woes are over and he doesn’t play he can move on next summer, it’s hardly a waste of a career.

[3 Stacks]

7 minutes ago, El Dangerous said:

Nah, we have no idea how well Virgil will recover and a pretty good idea how Gomez and Matip will. Even if Virgil has had a dream recovery and rehab he’ll still have the obligatory muscle strains that come with a lengthy lay off so we should definitely have a 5th choice. Nat is now a known quantity and is perfect for the role of 5th choice. If our injury woes are over and he doesn’t play he can move on next summer, it’s hardly a waste of a career.

He should leave while his stock is high and get a nice contract somewhere. I'm sure he backs himself, but it's an unnessecery risk for him to stay next season if he's going to be 5th choice. 

 

I'm sure the point of possibly signing Konate and Kabak is to have insurance for Virgil, Matip and Gomez. That's a lot of bodies.

[dockers_strike]

6 hours ago, JohnnyH said:

I hope he's sold.  He's not good enough for where we want to be, which is not 5th.  He seems a lovely lad.  He's had a dream few months that would never have happened if it wasn't for the extreme injuries in the back line.  He's 24 now and does not need to be going back to 5th choice CB.  He should move on and get starts for teams in the lower half of this league.  If you remove the romance of this (although I don't quite get the romance of having a limited footballer who's good at heading the ball away) he's simply not of the level we need to get back to winning leagues and european cups.  

 

We need 4 top-class footballing centre backs. That's not Nat Phillips.  

Just out of interest, but what's the definition of 'top class' CBs? We had 4 with van Dijk, Gomez, Matip and Lovren. Jurgen said it was very hard to keep them satisfied footballing wise with each wanting playing time. Loads on here dont or didnt rate Gomez, Matip and Lovren and it appears to me, people want 4 versions of van Dijk.

 

That's great, who wouldnt want that? But the point is, I dont know of 3 other CBs of Virgil's quality who are available, dont cost £50m+ each, all willing to come here and not have 3 of them kicking off from time to time about not playing?

[MOGLET]

I dont get the negativity towards Phillips, he has stepped in due to injuries, after not playing virtually any run of anything, and gets shite.

Yes he was a tad dire to start with, but given the total lack of game time, thats acceptable surely?

But tbh and in all honesty, he has turned into quite a decent defensive player for us, he isnt afraid of getting in there, he never shirks a tackle, and to be fair to the lad, he deserves a lot more credit.

The own goal last night was a fluke, and shouldnt be considered a fault.

For me, he has a right to be first choice to partner VVD when he returns, as im sure Gomez will need time to reinstate his place.

Dont get me wrong, the VVD, Gomez pairing worked very well, but Matip was never the same after his injury lay off.

And who is to say VVD will be straight back to being the giant he was prior?

I personally like the lad and think he deserves a lot more credit than he seems to be getting.

[aws]

He's just turned 24 which is young for a CB and while he won't get quicker he still has time to develop and improve.  Lots of very successful CBs have been no quicker than him. It's madness to even be thinking of moving him on while we've got three CBs in long-term recovery, one even younger than him, one a mere pup and one who doesn't exist.

He's first choice until someone else proves good enough to take it. 

[Curly]

1 hour ago, Elite said:

Kabak.

Oh yeah. Well, the point stands - he wouldn’t automatically be 5th choice for me. Virg is the man and the rest have a fair run at it. I’m not of an opinion that Gomez is automatically first choice to partner big virg. And Nat is ahead of kabak in my eyes. Big Nat is ahead of anyone in my eyes

[Curly]

1 hour ago, 3 Stacks said:

I don't get the debate with him. Done a good job this season. Beyond that, he likely won't play and therefore should leave this summer.

Well that’s where the debate starts, because I couldn’t agree any less. I’d love to see him with Virg

[andyj]

1 hour ago, m0e said:

I so want to give you your 3,000th rep for that. But I'm out.

 

Someone do the honours.

job done 

[3 Stacks]

5 minutes ago, belarus said:

Well that’s where the debate starts, because I couldn’t agree any less. I’d love to see him with Virg

What do you not agree with? It's very, very likely that Gomez and Matip will be ahead of him, not to mention Konate if he's signed and probably Kabak if he's signed as well. That's not my opinion, that's just how things are. They all have more pedigree and traits we look for in defenders than Phillips does. 

 

I don't mind if he stays next season because it would be good for the club to have options and he may have dreams of starring here, but the clear best thing for him would be to leave and get a more likely regular place somewhere else.

[Curly]

25 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

What do you not agree with? It's very, very likely that Gomez and Matip will be ahead of him, not to mention Konate if he's signed and probably Kabak if he's signed as well. That's not my opinion, that's just how things are. They all have more pedigree and traits we look for in defenders than Phillips does. 

 

That whole paragraph is opinion presented as facts. As I said, I’d have Phillips ahead of kabak for a start. Matip is a write off - that’s a fact. As good as he is, and I’d say he’s our second best cb, he needs to be moved on and not considered an option.

 

Konate I’ve never watched, so no opinion on that and he’s not here yet. Gomez as I mentioned isn’t as good in my opinion as being first choice partnership.

 

So just to repeat myself and answer your question, I disagree with it all.

[TheHowieLama]

Of course Matip and Gomez will be ahead of him. Good on the fella for what he has done but let's not be silly.

[3 Stacks]

7 minutes ago, belarus said:

That whole paragraph is opinion presented as facts. As I said, I’d have Phillips ahead of kabak for a start. Matip is a write off - that’s a fact. As good as he is, and I’d say he’s our second best cb, he needs to be moved on and not considered an option.

 

Konate I’ve never watched, so no opinion on that and he’s not here yet. Gomez as I mentioned isn’t as good in my opinion as being first choice partnership.

 

So just to repeat myself and answer your question, I disagree with it all.

Mate, Matip won the Champions League, Gomez won the league and we're interested in buying Konate for 35m. Those are facts and are why they would be ahead of him. They're simply better players, this isn't hard. Obviously, health permitting for all of them. 

 

And my statement was simply that he wouldn't play. So you think given the choice if everyone of those players were fit, he'd play ahead of all of them? Yeah, good luck with that opinion. 

[Curly]

5 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Mate, Matip won the Champions League, Gomez won the league and we're likely to buy Konate for 35m. Those are facts and are why they would be ahead of him. They're simply better players This isn't hard. Obviously, health permitting for all of them. 

 

And my statement was simply that he wouldn't play. So you think given the choice if everyone of those players were fit, he'd play ahead of all of them? Yeah, good luck with that opinion. 

Haha - fair enough. He reminds a bit of Sami when he arrived here. And he’s improving. Matip is, or should be, done here and out of the conversation completely. Konate isn’t even here yet and I have no opinion of him. Gomez I don’t really rate - physical attributes are there, but as a stand-alone I don’t think he’s great. I think Nat and Virgil would be a complimentary partnership. I don’t think there’s any clear argument to say Gomez is head and shoulders above Phillips and I think Phillips is much better than kabak. So on that basis, and the fact I really rate him, Phillips has a chance here.

 

Edit - just because he wasn’t meant to be first choice this season, doesn’t mean he’s not capable of reaching that height. He’s great. People have formed a decision on him based on him being emergency cover and he can’t change their mind. 

[aws]

We'll be doing well if two of Virgil, Joe and Matip are fully fit and available for half of our games next season. Plenty of opportunities for CBs next season and the fact that it's Kabak who's been getting subbed lately suggests that Nat is currently rated higher than him. 

[TheHowieLama]

3 minutes ago, aws said:

We'll be doing well if two of Virgil, Joe and Matip are fully fit and available for half of our games next season. Plenty of opportunities for CBs next season and the fact that it's Kabak who's been getting subbed lately suggests that Nat is currently rated higher than him. 

Injured the last couple weeks innit?

[Curly]

We’ve lost 3 in 17 with him playing, one being the cl game against Madrid.

 

Since Christmas we lost 6 of the 11 games without him playing. That’s facts. I think.

 

Edit - yeah, that’s right. Just had another look

[m0e]

1 hour ago, andyj said:

job done 

Cheers.

 

 Now, who's going to rep @andyj for me?

[m0e]

Anyone who compares Phillips to Sami either has a terrible memory, or never got to watch him play.

 

I feel sorry for you either way.

[manwiththestick]

If we had bought him for 20 million in the window nobody would have batted an eyelid. 

[Lee909]

Jesus Christ 

Phillips has done well but how can anyone watch him play and think he will be first choice. Imagine him trying to play the sort of high line that he will have to with Virg. Teams would just exploit that side of the field, he doesn't have the recovery pace at all. The away game in Madrid showed him against top level attackers. 

 

He's done well but he isnt close to even the match day squad when everyone's fit. The only way he stays if if we either sell Matip and don't take up the option on Kabak. If he stays as 5th choice great, but realistically it's just another wasted year for a player that needs to play, he isn't a kid. 

 

If we don't sign Kabak and let Matip go and he stays as the 4th option, fine. But we can't play the way they want to if he is a regular. He doesn't have the recovery pace to play 1 on 1 like Virg and Gomez do. The links with Konaté shows what Klopp wants in a CB. Big, good in the air and quick to play a really high line. Sell Matip and keep him, great. Bring him on late vs alehouse lump it teams like he does with Matip and save 80k a week on a player that's fit 4 months a year