Nathaniel Phillips

[VladimirIlyich]

12 hours ago, m0e said:

Relax.

 

Last time I checked, the spine was the keeper, both centre backs,  3 midfielders and a #9.

 

I said we'll need 3 of the 7 positions brought in. And definitely NOT as cover.

 

Jota hasn't proved himself a number 9, Gini is off and Thiago hasn't proved himself in midfield.

 

If you think we have the perfect pairing for VVD, I'd respectfully disagree.

 

And that's if VVD returns to what he was before.

 

I think it's silly to suggest anything that contradicts the above.

Jota has been brilliant in our front three and hasnt necessitated any real change in style up front. He already looks an upgrade on Firmino.

[sir roger]

[m0e]

12 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Jota has been brilliant in our front three and hasnt necessitated any real change in style up front. He already looks an upgrade on Firmino.

Very few of those performances were at #9 and in fact, his worst ones were at #9.

 

If anyone claims we don't need a proper #9, I don't know what the fuck they've been watching. 

[alles ist gut]

9 hours ago, sir roger said:

Did @LFD write that?

[TheHowieLama]

1 hour ago, m0e said:

Very few of those performances were at #9 and in fact, his worst ones were at #9.

 

If anyone claims we don't need a proper #9, I don't know what the fuck they've been watching. 

I think he has played pretty equally across the front three - maybe a little more off the left.

 

He scored a couple winners playing in the middle. Thought he was pretty good the other day there.

[The Guest]

It’s an old one that.  Proper wooly back song (no offence meant) rhyming back and hat.  I’m sure the county road cutters were singing it about Michael Keane after a couple of games.

[m0e]

2 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

I think he has played pretty equally across the front three - maybe a little more off the left.

 

He scored a couple winners playing in the middle. Thought he was pretty good the other day there.

He was pretty good. He was also pretty awful there on the game before the CL tie where he did his knee. Kept giving the ball away (can't remember the opposition).

 

If Firmino is in the side, there is no way Jota plays central. When we played the 4 v City, he was shunted out onto the right.

 

And a couple of times, we had Mane in the middle with him on the left.

 

That's not a proper #9 in Klopp's eyes, clearly.

 

This isn't really about Jota though. We're now facing a different type of challenge, and a challenge that a proper #9 solves, in my opinion.

[aRdja]

5 hours ago, m0e said:

He was pretty good. He was also pretty awful there on the game before the CL tie where he did his knee. Kept giving the ball away (can't remember the opposition).

 

If Firmino is in the side, there is no way Jota plays central. When we played the 4 v City, he was shunted out onto the right.

 

And a couple of times, we had Mane in the middle with him on the left.

 

That's not a proper #9 in Klopp's eyes, clearly.

 

This isn't really about Jota though. We're now facing a different type of challenge, and a challenge that a proper #9 solves, in my opinion.

Moe knows

[Barrington Womble]

6 hours ago, m0e said:

He was pretty good. He was also pretty awful there on the game before the CL tie where he did his knee. Kept giving the ball away (can't remember the opposition).

 

If Firmino is in the side, there is no way Jota plays central. When we played the 4 v City, he was shunted out onto the right.

 

And a couple of times, we had Mane in the middle with him on the left.

 

That's not a proper #9 in Klopp's eyes, clearly.

 

This isn't really about Jota though. We're now facing a different type of challenge, and a challenge that a proper #9 solves, in my opinion.

The shame is origi isn't able to play a bit part proper number 9. Not because I don't want a real number 9, but I think it might work better as an option than a fixture in the side. The way we use Salah and mane becomes more difficult with a real number 9 and we will lose numbers deeper as firmino isn't playing a 9 role, in fact he's rarely the most forward player. It would be good to have an option of a real number 9 at the right time.

 

Until this year, klopp has been brilliant at tweaking the front 3 so sides didn't really know how to defend against us as there were subtle differences all the time. I think some of the drop off has been 3 fold (well to simplify). Firstly the stuff that's happening behind the forwards - regardless of if that's defenders or midfielders not where they were before or capable of being where they were before. Secondly because the whole team was functioning, it didn't matter firmino wasn't scoring too many, but that has become an issue now other goals have dried up. Finally, manes form for whatever reason has fallen off a cliff too. He can come back from this though. It reminds me of that terrible run of form he had earlier in his career here after he missed that massive 1 on 1 chance against the blue shite, he was poor for 2 or 3 months after that. 

[VladimirIlyich]

12 hours ago, m0e said:

Very few of those performances were at #9 and in fact, his worst ones were at #9.

 

If anyone claims we don't need a proper #9, I don't know what the fuck they've been watching. 

While I'd have no problem with a 'goalscoring' forward,why would we need a 'number 9' (whatever that even means nowadays) if Jota's presence got our front three scoring regularly once again? 

[aRdja]

13 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

While I'd have no problem with a 'goalscoring' forward,why would we need a 'number 9' (whatever that even means nowadays) if Jota's presence got our front three scoring regularly once again? 

There are games against teams sitting deep where you need a presence in the box. Someone who’s a natural in finding that little bit of space. A player who’d be a target to aim at for our full backs. 

[m0e]

15 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

While I'd have no problem with a 'goalscoring' forward,why would we need a 'number 9' (whatever that even means nowadays) if Jota's presence got our front three scoring regularly once again? 

1 game it took for you to make that claim!?

 

A number 9 is a Harry Kane. A Lewandowski. An Aguero. A Benzema. A Haaland.

 

Someone who can hold up, link up, and score goals with very few chances.

 

Like Torres used to do.

[VladimirIlyich]

1 minute ago, m0e said:

1 game it took for you to make that claim!?

 

A number 9 is a Harry Kane. A Lewandowski. An Aguero. A Benzema. A Haaland.

 

Someone who can hold up, link up, and score goals with very few chances.

 

Like Torres used to do.

Lewandowski? The same player who Klopp turned into a world beater and one of the first modern 'goalscoring forwards' in an almost identical system to the one we play now?

[aRdja]

22 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Lewandowski? The same player who Klopp turned into a world beater and one of the first modern 'goalscoring forwards' in an almost identical system to the one we play now?

Yes that Lewandowski 

[TheHowieLama]

11 minutes ago, aRdja said:

Yes that Lewandowski 

So - A Lewandowski?

[aRdja]

21 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

So - A Lewandowski?

The next Lewandowski

[Reckoner]

On 18/03/2021 at 19:31, m0e said:

Very few of those performances were at #9 and in fact, his worst ones were at #9.

 

If anyone claims we don't need a proper #9, I don't know what the fuck they've been watching. 

Can’t agree with that. You generally talk alot of sense IMO but I disagree here. I don’t think Klopp wants a traditional number 9. The way I see it is he thinks the midfield gets over run without players dropping deep constantly. Obviously we need a tweak but I don’t think an all out goalscorer will ever be the way he goes.

Edit- not that anyone asked for my opinion but there we are.

[lebron]

3 hours ago, aRdja said:

There are games against teams sitting deep where you need a presence in the box. Someone who’s a natural in finding that little bit of space. A player who’d be a target to aim at for our full backs. 

The train of thought that gave us those heady days of Carroll in the middle and Downing and Henderson supplying from the flanks.

 

 

[Barrington Womble]

8 hours ago, Reckoner said:

Can’t agree with that. You generally talk alot of sense IMO but I disagree here. I don’t think Klopp wants a traditional number 9. The way I see it is he thinks the midfield gets over run without players dropping deep constantly. Obviously we need a tweak but I don’t think an all out goalscorer will ever be the way he goes.

Edit- not that anyone asked for my opinion but there we are.

Personally I think klopp is smarter than both the idea of a number 9 and not a number 9. If he had a good number 9, he would find a system that would mean the midfield doesn't get overwhelmed.

 

When Salah joined, he was not expected to do much of the defending while he learnt the system. Mane was sacrificed on the other side to accommodate this. As it turned out, this made Salah into a goal machine. Klopp has talked about how they didn't think Salah could make those numbers, it wasn't the plan, it was the plan to make it easy for Salah to settle. This has resulted in Salah still getting the role with the least defensive responsibility because he is a goal machine. If we were to bring in haaland, we would work on something else. That might mean Salah leaving and Jota replacing him on the right and doing more defensive work. It might mean a complete change of shape and going more 442. Or a 4231. Up to now klopp hasn't needed to do that because since we put this front 3 together, he's only had to do minor tweaks to keep it fresh and hard to defend against. Everyone is shitting it about the front 3 because we've struggle for goals since Xmas.  Look at klopps history, he just figured it out. He's had a lewandowski, he's had a firmino, he's had a aubamyang. 

 

This will all boil down who we can sell, add up the pennies down the sofa and then who fits that price profile. Then klopp will look at the players Edwards finds and then they'll go after a couple. We'll then formulate a plan how to use them. Klopp won't be banging his fists for a number 9, neither will he be trying to find some false 9. It'll just be who's out there when the spreadsheet says yes and klopp will deal with the consequences. 

[Scott_M]

 

[Rick Sanchez C-137]

16 hours ago, aRdja said:

Yes that Lewandowski 

 But he just prefers "The Dude"

[m0e]

15 hours ago, Reckoner said:

Can’t agree with that. You generally talk alot of sense IMO but I disagree here. I don’t think Klopp wants a traditional number 9. The way I see it is he thinks the midfield gets over run without players dropping deep constantly. Obviously we need a tweak but I don’t think an all out goalscorer will ever be the way he goes.

Edit- not that anyone asked for my opinion but there we are.

That's fair.

 

Although, I'm not saying he wants a number 9, I'm saying I do.

 

At Dortmund he played a 4231.

 

He started with that here too, with Sturridge (when fit) and Origi in the #9. A proper #9 role, not the Firmino version.

[m0e]

17 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Lewandowski? The same player who Klopp turned into a world beater and one of the first modern 'goalscoring forwards' in an almost identical system to the one we play now?

I don't get your point here. Genuinely.

 

I said that's the type of player I want here. You seem to have just provided further evidence for that.

 

Unless you're suggesting he's the same player as Firmino?!

 

In any case, if you think Bayern play the same system we do, and indeed that Dortmund played the same system we do, then I'm afraid I can't help you.

[TheHowieLama]

36 minutes ago, m0e said:

 

In any case, if you think Bayern play the same system we do, and indeed that Dortmund played the same system we do, then I'm afraid I can't help you.

I think the systems are pretty similar, they are all high energy and pressing at their best. How the triangles in the midfield and forwards are shaped is the difference. The two German sides for the most part are playing a midfield three with two deep and their forward three with the CF at the tip.

 

We do the opposite.

[Red_or_Dead]

It's getting a bit Rodgers like this thread...