Nathaniel Phillips

[Barrington Womble]

On 11/03/2021 at 17:08, an tha said:

I just can't see any point in keeping Matip at all.

 

He will just be injured time and time again and unavailable when needed - even used as cover, there is no point when someone is hardly ever fit and can't be relied on when needed.

 

Outside of Gomez and VVD the rest just aren't good enough for us.

 

2 new pacey centre halves who can play confortably in a high line and one of who challenges Gomez as number 2 and the other makes up the proper 4 centre halves we need is what we should do IMO and Matip going.....come the end of season he's played in 19 of our last 76 league games.

 

This season:

 

Squad 10 - Started 9, Substituted in 1

 

Injured 28

 

Last season:

 

Squad 16 -  Started 8, Substituted in 1, On Bench 7.

 

Injured 22

 

50 games missed due to injury over 2 seasons.

 

We can't carry that.

 

The trouble is we'd have to pay matip off. Nobody is going to pay him what we do, so even if we gave him a bosman, he wouldn't be attractive to teams. It's not like other clubs can't drag up the stats you have. 

On 11/03/2021 at 19:40, VladimirIlyich said:

Its quite surprising that Rhys Williams got his chance in the PL/CL before Phillips did. Obviously Klopp wanted more of a ball player but half of the Premier consists of teams that still lump the ball 100ft in the air at every opportunity and Phillips is much more useful in that way.

LFC fucked up though. We were expecting Phillips to leave in the summer transfer window and the windows and registration dates for Europe and domestic football didn't align, so we didn't add him to our CL squad for the 1st half of the season and then he stayed. And klopp likes players being in rhythm etc, so once Williams was the CL player of choice, I think it put him ahead of Phillips domestically unless we needed someone good in the air. I dont think there's really much comparison in the 2 players. Williams is just a kid and nowhere near ready for men's football. Philipps looks an accomplished player who knows his way round, it's just he really lacks some physical attributes such as running and turning that long term are going to mean he'll never be a regular at this level. He'll either be a 5th choice for us or go and play 2nd or 3rd tier football. We're probably watching the peak of his career right now. 

[SlugTrail]

7 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

The trouble is we'd have to pay matip off. Nobody is going to pay him what we do, so even if we gave him a bosman, he wouldn't be attractive to teams. It's not like other clubs can't drag up the stats you have. 

LFC fucked up though. We were expecting Phillips to leave in the summer transfer window and the windows and registration dates for Europe and domestic football didn't align, so we didn't add him to our CL squad for the 1st half of the season and then he stayed. And klopp likes players being in rhythm etc, so once Williams was the CL player of choice, I think it put him ahead of Phillips domestically unless we needed someone good in the air. I dont think there's really much comparison in the 2 players. Williams is just a kid and nowhere near ready for men's football. Philipps looks an accomplished player who knows his way round, it's just he really lacks some physical attributes such as running and turning that long term are going to mean he'll never be a regular at this level. He'll either be a 5th choice for us or go and play 2nd or 3rd tier football. We're probably watching the peak of his career right now. 

I think he would be good at a lower league club that plays a low block, it would hide his lack of pace some what and allow him to just head, tackle and intercept. 

 

He has done as well as we could hope considering the level he's played previously and the fact he was already deemed not good enough. 

 

When we sell him in the summer it will go some way to paying for Kabak (anyone that thinks we are not signing him is living in cuckoo's land)

 

I would rather keep him than sign Kabak but unfortunately I dont get a say in transfers or anything else lfc related(thats probably a good thing).

[Barrington Womble]

3 minutes ago, SlugTrail said:

I think he would be good at a lower league club that plays a low block, it would hide his lack of pace some what and allow him to just head, tackle and intercept. 

 

He has done as well as we could hope considering the level he's played previously and the fact he was already deemed not good enough. 

 

When we sell him in the summer it will go some way to paying for Kabak (anyone that thinks we are not signing him is living in cuckoo's land)

 

I would rather keep him than sign Kabak but unfortunately I dont get a say in transfers or anything else lfc related(thats probably a good thing).

I don't mind if we keep him, but the lad himself might. I am hoping we've learnt that covering 4th choice centre back with another member of our 1st XI has been pretty catastrophic, so while a fringe player might be a good stand-in, we can't go into next season with vvd, Gomez, matip and fabinho. So I am hoping we see a genuine 4th choice come in, be that kabak or someone else and then perhaps Phillips doesn't really get his game unless we make him domestic cup captain or something. 

 

As for kabak, I'm not convinced he's shite yet. He's certainly raw, but I don't feel he's been the disaster many have labelled him, even though he's been at the scene of the crime in a few goals and big chances. I deffo need to see more of him to make that call. Although if he left at the end of the season, with everything I've seen to this point, I'm not sure I'd be arsed either. 

[El Dangerous]

We can’t keep Kabak, he’ll never get the football he needs here to progress. Phillips should move to a shit defensive team where he’ll shine. A yo-yo club like West Brom would be a good fit or even get himself to Celtic or Rangers. He’s better than a 5th choice centre back but nowhere near good enough to be out most senior centre back in any game.

[aws]

37 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I don't mind if we keep him, but the lad himself might. I am hoping we've learnt that covering 4th choice centre back with another member of our 1st XI has been pretty catastrophic, so while a fringe player might be a good stand-in, we can't go into next season with vvd, Gomez, matip and fabinho. So I am hoping we see a genuine 4th choice come in, be that kabak or someone else and then perhaps Phillips doesn't really get his game unless we make him domestic cup captain or something. 

 

As for kabak, I'm not convinced he's shite yet. He's certainly raw, but I don't feel he's been the disaster many have labelled him, even though he's been at the scene of the crime in a few goals and big chances. I deffo need to see more of him to make that call. Although if he left at the end of the season, with everything I've seen to this point, I'm not sure I'd be arsed either. 

That's about where I am. I've not written Kabak off and would be happy for Nat to stay as fifth choice if he wants to. He could play in the cups, get occasional games against the aerial teams and would be a good option off the bench to close out games when we're getting bombarded. 

We won't get rid of Matip if the medical prognosis is ok because he is so good when he plays and I expect we'd rather pay his wages in the hope he's available for half our games than pay half his wages somewhere else. 

[Josef Svejk]

On 11/03/2021 at 12:25, JohnnyH said:

As a team who want to play a high press in an extremely mobile set-up that has aspirations of continuing to win league titles and European cups, if Phillips is anywhere near our first team squad, we are in trouble.

 

He's done well for us as we've shown relegation form.  And while it's very much of this side of the world to celebrate players diving in head first to win balls, it's also bollox.  We rightly hammered Lovren for being drawn to the ball so often that it resulted in games like he had against Spurs that time. That's what's in Phillips future.  Dogs of war types players are not what we should ever want.  The sooner he's out of the team the better.  And that's not a slight on him.  He's apparently a lovely lad, and he's a decent to good player.  But we are the current Premier League Champions.  We are in the quarters of the European Cup and if the draw goes our way, have a chance in it.  Nat Phillips is simply not that level.  If he was, it wouldn't have taken the soon-to-be 24 year old a massive injury crisis to get a few games.  

You'd love him if he were Irish...

[Red74]

He’s better than Harry Maguire

[3 Stacks]

5 hours ago, El Dangerous said:

We can’t keep Kabak, he’ll never get the football he needs here to progress. Phillips should move to a shit defensive team where he’ll shine. A yo-yo club like West Brom would be a good fit or even get himself to Celtic or Rangers. He’s better than a 5th choice centre back but nowhere near good enough to be out most senior centre back in any game.

Nah, in theory Kabak is essentially the perfect 4th choice. He's young and has potential but also already has experience playing international football, the Champions League, in another strong league, etc... There's a path for him to become Virgil's partner if he improves. 

[magicrat]

20 minutes ago, Red74 said:

He’s better than Harry Maguire

Regrettably he's not . 

[El Dangerous]

1 hour ago, 3 Stacks said:

Nah, in theory Kabak is essentially the perfect 4th choice. He's young and has potential but also already has experience playing international football, the Champions League, in another strong league, etc... There's a path for him to become Virgil's partner if he improves. 

We need better than 4th choice though. For whatever reason we can’t rely on Gomez or Matip. In an ideal world we’d ship out Matip (as good as he is) and bring in a first choice centreback alongside Kabak. As it is we’ll probably only bring in one and he needs to be better than Kabak’s current level.

[3 Stacks]

4 minutes ago, El Dangerous said:

We need better than 4th choice though. For whatever reason we can’t rely on Gomez or Matip. In an ideal world we’d ship out Matip (as good as he is) and bring in a first choice centreback alongside Kabak. As it is we’ll probably only bring in one and he needs to be better than Kabak’s current level.

Yes, in an ideal world, but we're likely not getting rid of Matip.

[TheHowieLama]

If Matip stays we need a 4th choice capable of playing at the highest level cuz we will need them for at least 10 league games.

[El Dangerous]

If Matip stays we still need a first choice defender. Gomez will get games at right back whether we like it or not  and is young enough and good enough to compete for first choice and maybe even over come his injury troubles. Matip will break down time and time again, he needs to be moved in to dead rubber and cup game territory which is shit because he’s our second best defender. At the very least we need someone as good as Gomez is now and if we don’t shift him or Matip then we might just keep Nat around for spare parts.

[3 Stacks]

The problem is, Matip has the wages and standing of an important first team player. If he stays, we won't be buying a a legit first choice centre back and relegating Matip to fight for 3rd/4th choice.

 

The saving grace would be that someone is interested in buying, we're interested in selling and we can then buy a CB in his prime to partner Virgil, but that strikes me as very unlikely. 

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

If Matip stays we’ll have Van Dijk, Gomez, a 3rd, 4th and 5th choice CB. And then we’ll have Matip as a pleasent surprise should he be fit for a game we need him.

[m0e]

We're not paying 18 mil for Kabak.

 

No fucking chance.

[Captain Howdy]

15 minutes ago, m0e said:

We're not paying 18 mil for Kabak.

 

No fucking chance.

Yeah, can’t see it myself.

[3 Stacks]

29 minutes ago, m0e said:

We're not paying 18 mil for Kabak.

 

No fucking chance.

18m isn't much these days. 

[Arnaud]

12 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

18m isn't much these days. 

Baby, you’re a rich man!

[Bobby Hundreds]

24 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

18m isn't much these days. 

Hes only 20 I reckon they will pay it thinking they will make money.

[Supremolad]

41 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Hes only 20 I reckon they will pay it thinking they will make money.

That's what I guess would happen too.

 

Considering we have previously been linked to him for so long, I reckon FSG would be happy at the chance to moneyball on him. And Klopp would probably also think there is enough in Kabak to work with next season. Win win.

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, m0e said:

We're not paying 18 mil for Kabak.

 

No fucking chance.

That 18m is just a guarantee though. If schalke are down, the lad wants to move and we let the clause slide and offer 10, there's nothing to say they won't deal at that number. 

[m0e]

1 minute ago, Barrington Womble said:

That 18m is just a guarantee though. If schalke are down, the lad wants to move and we let the clause slide and offer 10, there's nothing to say they won't deal at that number. 

If they can get him in for what they sell Davies and Phillips for, then it may happen. 

 

You know exactly how they operate.

[Barrington Womble]

6 minutes ago, m0e said:

If they can get him in for what they sell Davies and Phillips for, then it may happen. 

 

You know exactly how they operate.

Oh I agree it won't be financed right out of club finds. But there's Wilson and Grujic too who they might sell too. 

[m0e]

5 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Oh I agree it won't be financed right out of club finds. But there's Wilson and Grujic too who they might sell too. 

Yeah, that's fair. Although I think Klopp would rather keep Phillips than buy Kabak for more money than we'd get for Phillips.

 

Shaqiri, Origi, Minamino, Oxlade will also all be available to offers.

 

We'll need a new spine though: CD, CM, and #9.

 

There's a fair bit of money to make this summer, but we'll need a fair bit to spend too.