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After that furlough embarrassment I can't say I'm suprised to see these money-grubbers up to some shit. If Parry is down with it you know it stinks, he is and always has been a massive cunt.

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9 hours ago, m0e said:

Some fair points on the dangers of what may happen, which will be subject to how the terms are written.

 

Yes, they can vote to take all the perks away once they get the power, but what's the alternative? The government taking control instead? We're never getting a handout from them, so its not a point worth discussing.

 

And that's not even going into the likelihood of Tory cuts at every level possible due to the pandemic.

 

In terms of the league cup, its become a bit of a farce, and none of the big leagues in Europe (if any at all) have a second cup competition.

 

In any case, the proposal, as far as I can tell, aims to fund the lower league clubs in a much more balanced way than a good cup run would.

 

The entire resistance to this seems to be based on a load of what ifs, and a general distrust with these types of 'establishment' proposals.

 

I'm cautiously open to this, and definitely  wanting to here more about the arguments against the proposal from those in the know.

 

On the footballing side, I'm also in favour of all the proposed changes.

Well pretty much all of it is ifs and buts, because we have nothing but the data that was pushed through the telegraph or wherever the original article came from and that almost certainly paints a positive picture from the perspective of the club or clubs who planted the story. 

 

I agree the league cup has become a bit of a farce, some may argue it has always been that. Even when we were winning it all the time in the 80s it was known as the Mickey mouse cup. Yet anfield has been packed to the rafrers for these games in recent years because it's one of the few times its affordable for people , especially if they want to take their kids. So that access to the team for many now gets taken away. Should we also deem the fa cup a bit of a farce too? Just look at our line up that beat Everton. We might have won the game, but it didn't suggest taking the completion seriously. I would say we haven't taken either domestics competitions seriously since Kenny was sacked. So what's next, the fa cup gets dumped? 

 

History in this game should tell us it's never good for the overall game when more power goes to a select few clubs. I would imagine the owners of the 2 clubs pushing this agenda would love nothing more than the complete end to relegation and create a similar set up for sport in the USA. 

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The league Cup has been devalued but it's still a trophy and a cracking day out for a lot of fans, us beating the mancs in 2003 in Cardiff was one of the best days of my life,  after the win we hung a 15ft liverpool flag out of the 10th floor of the marriott and attracted a crowd of about 200 mancs in the carpark shouting "you scouse bastards" with the concierge shouting up "for God's sake take the flag in!". Great craic. We couldn't go out that night though.

 

Stinks to me that as soon as we're on top we start trying to bully our way around and change the actual fucking game itself. 

 

 

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Liverpool and United want to be able to stop another Chelsea and Man City style takeover happening which is why they will be pushing this.  I think the Newcastle situation will have put the shits up us and a few others.  It also just sounds like the first stage of changing the the way the money is split and the TV deals.  It will 100% be bad for competition in the league.  After a long time of things being a bit of a closed shop teams finally seem to be in a situation where they’re keeping their players and lower teams are beating the higher teams more often.  It’s going to make a more exciting league.  If they make changes like this it will drift back to the closed shop at the top.

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2 hours ago, Section_31 said:

The league Cup has been devalued but it's still a trophy and a cracking day out for a lot of fans, us beating the mancs in 2003 in Cardiff was one of the best days of my life,  after the win we hung a 15ft liverpool flag out of the 10th floor of the marriott and attracted a crowd of about 200 mancs in the carpark shouting "you scouse bastards" with the concierge shouting up "for God's sake take the flag in!". Great craic. We couldn't go out that night though.

 

Stinks to me that as soon as we're on top we start trying to bully our way around and change the actual fucking game itself. 

 

 

That's the problem with the EFL Cup and also the FA Cup. No one gives a fuck about it until your team gets to the final. You may as well just have a draw to decide the two finalists rather than have the knock out rounds.

 

The PL could give every EFL club 50m quid each every season and you'd still have a number of them running a budget deficit every year. They'll spend it buying more expensive players, paying them bigger wages as they chase the promotion dream.

 

Im fully on board PL clubs giving money to clubs, especially League One and Two. Im not onsidewith just subsidising club spending. There are a number of clubs in the Championship whose owner have more wealth than a number in the PL including us. It is ludicrous PL clubs are being asked to bail out those clubs.

 

I honestly dont see much wrong in these proposals with the exception of the weighted voting rights. But even then, I can see an argment for some clubs having more of a say. Is it right that newly promoted sides have the same say in football that affects the 'top' clubs? People seem to be forgetting proposals are a starting point and not necessarily the finishing point. As with many things, there could well be horse trading to get wider acceptance.

 

I read in threads here people complaining about yo yo clubs and the same people dont have any reservations about these yo yo clubs having a major say on matters that probably will not impact them in 12 months when they're relegated again?

 

 

 

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Surely keeping the league cup is a worthwhile way of playing all the upcoming talent ?

Doesn't make any sense to scrap it , if you're not arsed don't play a decent team

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I'm not really keen on our club driving this and getting all the shit from the press and cunts supporting other clubs. I see some obvious benefits for the lower league clubs which I like, but overall the main aim is for the rich clubs to become even richer. Of course that benefits us but I'd rather we leave things as they are. Give the EFL a one-off payment and if they need more help over the coming seasons then deal with it then. All this other stuff about reducing the number of teams, play off for relegation/promotion, permanent voting rights for the top 9 clubs or whatever isn't necessary and won't improve the league.

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Parry on BBC news saying that this plan is the future of football. Here's the cunt, the utter cunt who thought Hicks and Gillett were the future of Liverpool. This country really likes to promote life's mediocrities to positions of influence.

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1 hour ago, torahboy said:

Parry on BBC news saying that this plan is the future of football. Here's the cunt, the utter cunt who thought Hicks and Gillett were the future of Liverpool. This country really likes to promote life's mediocrities to positions of influence.


I’ve built my career on that.

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There’s certainly opportunism at play here in the timing of these proposals, and a big slice of fuck you to the owners of City and Chelsea. Its a mixed bag of decent ideas and outright greed and may get through because of some desperation in the EFL and others who might go to the wall if something isn’t done soon.

However, the consequences of it not going through will bring much nearer a break away by the bigger clubs to a European Super League, which has been threatened for some time now and has always been just under the surface. This is a tipping point that there’ll be no getting away from now the cat’s out of the bag.

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17 minutes ago, coachpotato said:

There’s certainly opportunism at play here in the timing of these proposals, and a big slice of fuck you to the owners of City and Chelsea. Its a mixed bag of decent ideas and outright greed and may get through because of some desperation in the EFL and others who might go to the wall if something isn’t done soon.

However, the consequences of it not going through will bring much nearer a break away by the bigger clubs to a European Super League, which has been threatened for some time now and has always been just under the surface. This is a tipping point that there’ll be no getting away from now the cat’s out of the bag.

I've worked in several partnerships (which is effectively what the PL is) and there's always a tension between the ideal of paying everybody more or less the same and what's needed in practice to reward the big earners so they don't leave to feather their own nests and leave the remaining partners a lot worse off. So if this is rejected out of hand as appears very likely then it will give a big push towards a Euro League.

The other alternative which is being mooted is for the Big Six to rejoin the Championship on their terms leaving the rest to scrabble around in a substandard " premier league"  while the real money follows the Big Six. 

I wouldn't be surprised if all the null and void discussions where the relegation threatened clubs just looked after their own interests didn't give impetus to these proposals. 

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I dont know if I am being a bit silly in my thinking on this but it would appear to me that they also want to get at teams  like Chelsea and City who would have to open up their accounts to the Premier league.

 

Absolutely no way they will go for this. Would bring too much scrutiny on their illegal dealings.

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1 hour ago, SlugTrail said:

I dont know if I am being a bit silly in my thinking on this but it would appear to me that they also want to get at teams  like Chelsea and City who would have to open up their accounts to the Premier league.

 

Absolutely no way they will go for this. Would bring too much scrutiny on their illegal dealings.

This is one of my favourite parts of the proposal,  and where I think us and the mancs saw the real opportunity.

 

Investors want a 'level playing field where possible so that their expertise and ability gets rewarded rather than the depth of pocket.

 

It's the reason a cash poker table has a cap on what you can start with when joining a table.

 

Doesn't stop the rich fuckers going all in and topping up, mind. But its still better than nothing.

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I didn’t have time to read this yesterday, I’ve just read a full article in The Athletic.

 

As has been mentioned, losing the Charity  Shield and League Cup would be a bit of a blow, I’ve also had some great days out at both competitions but ultimately, in the grand scheme of things, where we want to continue to be, is several levels above these tournaments.

 

Apart from the weighted voting, I personally don’t see the issue with it. 

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5 hours ago, torahboy said:

Parry on BBC news saying that this plan is the future of football. Here's the cunt, the utter cunt who thought Hicks and Gillett were the future of Liverpool.


Rick Parry’s greatest achievement is making Man Utd the richest club in the world. 
 

It looks like he’s keen to keep it that way. 

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4 hours ago, aws said:

If this is rejected out of hand as appears very likely then it will give a big push towards a Euro League.

 

I disagree entirely here. 
 

All the changes that have led us to to current Champions League format (a small cadre of clubs from an even small number of nations, dominating the old European Cup in perpetuity, after giving themselves an unfathomable financial advantage) have been based on this logic. 
 

The big clubs first threatened a European Super League 30 years ago. It would have been a crazy gamble back then - fans and audiences primarily wanted to see their clubs play domestic rivals who were more or less on the same level. But the creation of a single group stage, instead of quarter-finals, didn’t seem too much of a leap, so UEFA went for it. Plus it was more money for UEFA themselves. Everyone’s a winner!

 

Then there came two group stages (although that was mercifully junked); then more and more clubs from the big/rich countries being entered each year; plus fewer and fewer clubs from the small/poor countries had a chance of making the group stages; changes to the coefficients system to help bigger clubs; and finally a consolation spot in the deformed UEFA Cup for big teams who didn’t make it through the group stages. 
 

Each change wasn’t too much by itself. But as they came in turn, they not only created a cartel, but made the threat of “We’ll go off an create our own Super League,” more realistic. Teams who weren’t on the gravy train just fell further behind. 
 

The big English clubs want to keep the Premier League and expand the Champions League. The Prem generates more cash than any other domestic league in the world. English clubs also know that keeping that financial advantage, regardless of whether the Champions League expands or not, will mean they have a better chance of keeping ahead of foreign rivals, meaning that it’s them who get more prize money in Europe. 

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I was all for it till I read the mongrels would be getting half of the imaginary paid off. Not on my watch son.

 

viva the little 14

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FSG have overplayed their hand with the 6+3 voting system. Shifting to a simple majority of new members (10/18) or making voting rights proportional to revenue would have achieved broadly the same outcome without the obvious stench of creating a cartel/closed shop. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, AlissonsBeard said:

FSG have overplayed their hand with the 6+3 voting system. Shifting to a simple majority of new members (10/18) or making voting rights proportional to revenue would have achieved broadly the same outcome without the obvious stench of creating a cartel/closed shop. 

 

 

 

Could be a negotiating ploy - ask for more than you want, then get haggled down to what you’ll accept?

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I’m no good at this sort of malarkey, but is there some way of doing a poll on this thread where people could vote here item-by-item on which proposals they would be in favour of and which they wouldn’t?

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It's quite funny in a way reading the likes of martin samuel come out all guns blazing against these proposals.

 

This is a man who thinks it's ok for nation states like Abu Dhabi or Saudi Arabia or mega wealthy individuals like Abramovic to pump enormous amounts of money into a club no questions asked, in the hope it encourages others to buy up a 'small' club, maybe a Darlington or Nottigham Forest or Sunderland, do the same as mansour and abramovic and turn them into the next Manchester City or Chelsea.

 

In samuel's world, it's preferable to have 4, 5, 6 etc, however many of these artificially created and inflated new super clubs that replace the 'cartel' of established clubs who've been winning the major trophies throughout their history.

 

Funny old world, Saint.

 

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