Aston Villa 7 Liverpool 2 (Oct 4 2020)

[halewood pete]

Think we all need to calm down a bit and beware of kneejerk reactions

[stringvest]

1 minute ago, dave u said:

 

That's subjective. I'd say it's closer to 50/50.

 

He's had games when he's fucked up but it didn't cost us, so that is easier to forget.

 

Plus, that's not really the highest of bars you're setting there Stringy! 

 

He's a professional footballer, he should have far more good games than bad.

I agree, but the same bar could be applied to Bobby over the last 40 games and he’s not going to clear it with any more conviction than our hapless deputy goalie. The problem is of course is that goalies are not able to make too many mistakes and get away with them.  I did find it hilarious the other night when after we’d let 6 or 7 in he wandered off to the corner of the penalty area flapping his arms about while the play was going on between him and the goal.  I thought at that point he needed a break from the game and a spot of CBT. 
 

the bigger point is that while we don’t have our number 1 goalie available, we are going to have to defend from the front a lot more effectively.  Harry the man with the ball, reduce his options, don’t give him time to get his head up. We were epically shite at doing that on Sunday.

[dave u]

Completely agree with all of that.

[Daisy]

More good games than bad games! 

 

I can't remember a game where he hasn't fucked up massively. 

[Nolongerathletic]

11 minutes ago, Daisy said:

More good games than bad games! 

 

I can't remember a game where he hasn't fucked up massively. 

I'd say, try harder! 

[DaveT]

A few thoughts, now I've (sort of) calmed down, and also having watched Neil Mellor's review programme......

 

It felt like the attitude wasn't right from the very beginning, but Adrian's howler really put us on the back foot. You're not very good with your feet, so if you sense a press coming, just fucking hit it long, preferably towards the wing! We're stuck with him though, as Kelleher is just too lightweight for the league. 

At 1-0 we should have had a penalty. This wasn't one of those 'occupying the space' scenarios - McGinn just took Mo out, making contact with his hip and his foot. But when did we EVER get anything from Atkinson? VAR's not going to overrule a senior referee, and Atkinson's niot going to change his mind. He did, however, penalise Jota later on for doing what McGinn did.

For their 2nd, neither Trent nor Gomez covered themselves in glory and it underlined where they each need to improve further defensively.

At 2-1, it's game on. They missed a couple of good chances - we missed at least as many.Bobby could have had a hat-trick in this period. Bobby was dreadful - he's normally as strong as fuck, but  he was giving up possession repeatedly.and  like everyone else, he was losing his 50-50s 

 

Then they get their first massively deflected goal and it feels like it's not going to be our night. Unfortunately it seemed like the team felt that too. The response from that point was probably the most annoying aspect of the whole game, we just fell apart after that. 

Two more lucky, deflected goals - but if we're defending properly as individuals and collectively, they don't even get into the positions to shoot, but we'd well lost our heads.

Milner should have been on earlier for his grit and leadership - and why have Hendo on the bench if you're not going to use him? Fabinho replacing Gomez at CB at half time and Milner and Hendo into midfield, 2nd half's a different story and maybe we avoid the humiliation. Hindsight's a wonderful thing, though, I know.

 

I was at that 5-1 match in 76 (student in Birmingham at the time) and it was horrendous. I'm pretty sure it was 5-1 at half-time and we were worried it was going to 9 or 10. But we locked it down and avoided further embarrassment. On Sunday, we just got worse and worse and I'm sure everyone, like me, was praying for the final whistle before we conceded even more.

[Nolongerathletic]

36 minutes ago, DaveT said:

A few thoughts, now I've (sort of) calmed down, and also having watched Neil Mellor's review programme......

 

It felt like the attitude wasn't right from the very beginning, but Adrian's howler really put us on the back foot. You're not very good with your feet, so if you sense a press coming, just fucking hit it long, preferably towards the wing! We're stuck with him though, as Kelleher is just too lightweight for the league. 

At 1-0 we should have had a penalty. This wasn't one of those 'occupying the space' scenarios - McGinn just took Mo out, making contact with his hip and his foot. But when did we EVER get anything from Atkinson? VAR's not going to overrule a senior referee, and Atkinson's niot going to change his mind. He did, however, penalise Jota later on for doing what McGinn did.

For their 2nd, neither Trent nor Gomez covered themselves in glory and it underlined where they each need to improve further defensively.

At 2-1, it's game on. They missed a couple of good chances - we missed at least as many.Bobby could have had a hat-trick in this period. Bobby was dreadful - he's normally as strong as fuck, but  he was giving up possession repeatedly.and  like everyone else, he was losing his 50-50s 

 

Then they get their first massively deflected goal and it feels like it's not going to be our night. Unfortunately it seemed like the team felt that too. The response from that point was probably the most annoying aspect of the whole game, we just fell apart after that. 

Two more lucky, deflected goals - but if we're defending properly as individuals and collectively, they don't even get into the positions to shoot, but we'd well lost our heads.

Milner should have been on earlier for his grit and leadership - and why have Hendo on the bench if you're not going to use him? Fabinho replacing Gomez at CB at half time and Milner and Hendo into midfield, 2nd half's a different story and maybe we avoid the humiliation. Hindsight's a wonderful thing, though, I know.

 

I was at that 5-1 match in 76 (student in Birmingham at the time) and it was horrendous. I'm pretty sure it was 5-1 at half-time and we were worried it was going to 9 or 10. But we locked it down and avoided further embarrassment. On Sunday, we just got worse and worse and I'm sure everyone, like me, was praying for the final whistle before we conceded even more.

Thats interesting,

 

Just checked on that match report...https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/great-games-aston-villa-5-181147

 

Some similarities indeed!!

 

LIVERPOOL were the best team, by a mile, in English football.

The best, perhaps, in world football.

 

“I’m not detracting from those Villa boys,” said manager Bob Paisley, “they did well.

“But my defence... I didn’t think they could play so badly.”

 

In their remaining 23 league games, on the way to retaining their title, the Liverpool team so utterly shredded by Villa that night were to keep 11 clean sheets and conceded just one goal in each of nine other matches.

[DaveT]

One other observation....... Their 4th goal - I was sure Trezeguet was offside at the time, he wasn't. But Watkins was. So, here we have the Phase One/Phase Two argument. His being offside in the first place gave him the advantage - 3 yards or so - which meant he was in position to head in the cross, whilst our defenders were struggling to get back into position. 

I guess that's the risk we take, but for me it's still an anomaly.

[Jordy Brouwer]

For me Fabinho was as big a culprit as Gomes, maybe more and I don't say that lighlty. The whole point of his position is to make sure we aren't too open when we lose the ball and protecting spaces when the attacking players have pushed up ("protecting the attack") and he didn't do that at ALL. He's been off it for a while and even looked like getting dropped at one point but was brought back because without Hendo there's nobody else really who can do it. I noted that he looked off the pace in those terrible first four minutes. 

 

If a match turns into a basketball match as you put it then your number 6 seriously isn't working. 

 

[Section_31]

Alisson is head and shoulders the best goalie in the world so any number two is going to be a big drop off.

 

Chelsea's and everton's first choice keepers are both shite, the mancs' number one has been shite for ages too although he's of higher pedigree than them, I suspect he's developed brain damage because he's been there too long.

 

There's just not many good ones around, dunno why. By and large though a number two keeper is gonna be a backup for a reason.

 

Say though, I just think it's too simplistic to hang this on him. We could have lost 10-nil, that's a group clusterfuck pure and simple.

 

It's always harder to maintain the fire in the belly once you've reached the top, just look at the number of bands and singers who've gone shit because they started phoning it in.

 

The next game will show us their mettle.

 

 

[dockers_strike]

3 hours ago, Section_31 said:

Alisson is head and shoulders the best goalie in the world so any number two is going to be a big drop off.

 

Chelsea's and everton's first choice keepers are both shite, the mancs' number one has been shite for ages too although he's of higher pedigree than them, I suspect he's developed brain damage because he's been there too long.

 

There's just not many good ones around, dunno why. By and large though a number two keeper is gonna be a backup for a reason.

 

Say though, I just think it's too simplistic to hang this on him. We could have lost 10-nil, that's a group clusterfuck pure and simple.

 

It's always harder to maintain the fire in the belly once you've reached the top, just look at the number of bands and singers who've gone shit because they started phoning it in.

 

The next game will show us their mettle.

 

 

I agree. It smacks of the Lovren at Watford argument.  These games without crowds can turn into almost the football equivalent of basket ball. One side scores, the other goes down the other end and tries to reply.

 

I got the impression when it went to 4, a number of our players threw the game plan out the window and virtually did their own thing.

 

You can chuck a hatful of cliches at that game but we just turned to shit while Villa couldnt believe their fortune and feasted on the carnage ( well that's a couple of new cliches!).

 

Being the derby next albeit right after the international break may be the best thing for us. The players know they have to be up for it. If it were a Brighton or Fulham, they'd possibly not be quite as focused.

[Remmie]

Yeah who are the best keepers that aren't Allison in the Premier league? 

 

Lloris, Pope, Ederson and maybe Leno? Schmeichel usually does well when I watch Leicester. De Gea of 3 years ago would easily be the best of the rest but the current version is a shadow of his former self. 

 

I barely watch anyone else other than us so appreciate I might be talking out of my arse. 

[Fiona Southworth]

Great read Dave.....really agree about Keita ....not for me. I hope it will give us a kick up the backside but I’m extremely worried about the a Derby. Hi 

[Nolongerathletic]

2 hours ago, Remmie said:

Yeah who are the best keepers that aren't Allison in the Premier league? 

 

Lloris, Pope, Ederson and maybe Leno? Schmeichel usually does well when I watch Leicester. De Gea of 3 years ago would easily be the best of the rest but the current version is a shadow of his former self. 

 

I barely watch anyone else other than us so appreciate I might be talking out of my arse. 

I think Pope/Schmeichel just about the best of that lot, not a huge Lloris fan and Ederson...nah...he was adorned when they accumulated those huge points totals but in fairness City had so much possession Karius would have looked a world beater. He was all over place last year and his mistake v Leeds is not uncommon for him recently.

 

I think Leno like others in PL are good shot stoppers but lack the basics, commanding at corners, make big saves when called upon just once in a game. I do think Arsenal sold the wrong keeper to Villa.
 

Henderson does look like he could be best of the rest but time will tell if gets a good run of games. 

[DalyanPete]

On 06/10/2020 at 14:01, halewood pete said:

Think we all need to calm down a bit and beware of kneejerk reactions

Brilliant and totally agree

[Nolongerathletic]

2 hours ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

I’m astonished this thread is only 3 pages long and is petering out. Maybe the ennui displayed by the team is spreading to the fans as well. Biggest defeat in 50 years and we don’t seem to give a fuck really. I think interest in football is being killed by the lack of crowds. 

I think we are stuck between "I can't believe what happened" and "I don't want to criticise this team that has only lost 4 games in the last 80"

 

I think everyone still gives a fuck, but because this team have been so good over the last couple of years then they will get a pass from many. I don't think interest is being killed by the lack of crowd, but I think the lack of an atmosphere at ground is leading to a lax approach from many players in the PL, quite a lot of Liverpool players on Sunday were on cloud 9.

 

I also think you will continue to see really strange results because of COVID, how it affects Liverpool longer term only time will tell but knowing Mane/Thiago/Henderson/Matip will be available creates more positives than negatives.

[Nolongerathletic]

1 hour ago, Colonel Kurtz said:

My personal theory is that some very good players are inhibited by the crowd. I’ve read a lot of football autobiographies and they often mention that some players play much better in training. I think the lock down is eliminating these differences; maybe the top players are psychologically disadvantaged by the lack of crowds. 

Maybe so, Arsenal lemons for the last 10 years do seem like a club that has great players in training! That Pepe!!

 

Teams in PL dont have a KOP and I think any player with that behind them will potentially push themselves a little further, perform to a higher standard, just gives them the edge. In the same respect the away game heightens that awareness of them and us and I think some of our guys thrived on that, Firmino last year seemed to perform better in away games for some reason.

 

The other theory is I'm just talking complete bollocks... which has been known on occasion... and our players are all crap!

[an tha]

After a few days to at least try and have this sink in, it still feels unreal.

 

To let in 7, fucking 7 against Aston fucking Villa, Aston fucking Villa - it is just mind boggling.

 

Part of me says it has opened up a concealed wound in the team and from here on in we are gonna be like an old fighter with loads of scar tissue that can open up at any time and bleed like fuck....but then the bigger part of me says that this team hardly ever loses and has wracked up 97 and 99 pts last two seasons and won the European Cup and the league title, a bad (very very very) day at the office can be excused/forgiven - albeit it deeply humiliating.....we haven't become shite because of one disastrous day.

 

Our defending hasn't been up to scratch from front to back for a while - hopefully this is a wake up call and a reminder to the team of the level they need to maintain if they want more success.

 

Fucking 7 though, it is mad - Watford last season is the sort of 'bad day' that can every now and then happen....what happened Sunday is a once in a lifetime job (57 years since last shipped 7) let's hope it is 57 years and more until it is seen again.

 

The reaction to this over next few games is gonna tell us a lot.

[Creator Supreme]

On 08/10/2020 at 21:48, an tha said:

After a few days to at least try and have this sink in, it still feels unreal.

 

To let in 7, fucking 7 against Aston fucking Villa, Aston fucking Villa - it is just mind boggling.

 

Part of me says it has opened up a concealed wound in the team and from here on in we are gonna be like an old fighter with loads of scar tissue that can open up at any time and bleed like fuck....but then the bigger part of me says that this team hardly ever loses and has wracked up 97 and 99 pts last two seasons and won the European Cup and the league title, a bad (very very very) day at the office can be excused/forgiven - albeit it deeply humiliating.....we haven't become shite because of one disastrous day.

 

Our defending hasn't been up to scratch from front to back for a while - hopefully this is a wake up call and a reminder to the team of the level they need to maintain if they want more success.

 

Fucking 7 though, it is mad - Watford last season is the sort of 'bad day' that can every now and then happen....what happened Sunday is a once in a lifetime job (57 years since last shipped 7) let's hope it is 57 years and more until it is seen again.

 

The reaction to this over next few games is gonna tell us a lot.

We'll be in relegation trouble before you know it!

[an tha]

4 hours ago, Creator Supreme said:

We'll be in relegation trouble before you know it!

I'd expect nothing less

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

On 06/10/2020 at 22:35, Remmie said:

Yeah who are the best keepers that aren't Allison in the Premier league? 

 

Lloris, Pope, Ederson and maybe Leno? Schmeichel usually does well when I watch Leicester. De Gea of 3 years ago would easily be the best of the rest but the current version is a shadow of his former self. 

 

I barely watch anyone else other than us so appreciate I might be talking out of my arse. 

Henderson was brilliant at Sheffield United last year. Also think the Palace keeper is half decent, as is Patricio at Wolves. None of those are even near Alisson obviously, but miles better than Adrian.

[CrownPaints]

On 10/10/2020 at 23:21, an tha said:

I'd expect nothing less

We've already banked more points than Fulham & West Brom will this season. The battle for 17th is on!

[Guest]

The lack of an 'Inside Villa' video on YouTube should not go unnoticed.