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Messi

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2 hours ago, Colt Seavers said:

I totally agree he is the best "attacking" player (Virg is the best)

Where would you play Messi, in our current set up? 

On the bench 

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8 hours ago, Arnaud said:

Every one seems to forget about Pelé. For those old enough to have seen Pelé and Diego, apart Argentinians obviously, Pelé is the greatest. 

I used to think like this but looking at the Brazil teams he was in,surrounded by great players. Also the 1,000 goals in Brazil domestically claim,obviously some really poor teams back then,I am not so sure.

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Pele was probably the first global superstar on the back of some impressive displays in and scoring 2 goals in the 1958 World Cup final as a 17 year old.

 

However if i remember rightly I think a lot of his goals included those scored in exhibition matches for Santos when they toured Europe and America regularly.

 

In my opinion Maradona will always be the greatest of all time simply because of what he achieved in an era where defenders got away with anything.

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Messi is by far and away the best player of all time, there’s not even a conversation to be had about disputing it. He is an absolutely freak, there will never be a better sportspersons than him. 

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4 minutes ago, LFC 6 Times said:

Messi is by far and away the best player of all time, there’s not even a conversation to be had about disputing it. He is an absolutely freak, there will never be a better sportspersons than him. 

and yet people still dispute it, go figure

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13 minutes ago, LFC 6 Times said:

Messi is by far and away the best player of all time, there’s not even a conversation to be had about disputing it. He is an absolutely freak, there will never be a better sportspersons than him. 

 

Wouldn't make our bench.

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5 minutes ago, Jimmy Hills Chin said:

and yet people still dispute it, go figure

That’s what’s great about football. We watch the same game and we can disagree as hard as ever. 
 

No way Messi is better than Pelé. And he he’s been too average during world cups to be compared to Diego.

 

About Maradona, I read some said he won the WC on his own. That’s not true, Argentina had a great team in 86 with Valdano, Burruchaga, ect

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2 minutes ago, Arnaud said:

About Maradona, I read some said he won the WC on his own. That’s not true, Argentina had a great team in 86 with Valdano, Burruchaga, ect

He pretty much won Seria A by himself and helped propel that league into its golden era.

 

If you had to choose between a prime time Messi or a prime time Maradonna, you're going to pick Maradonna every time aren't you? The man was a machine.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Arnaud said:

That’s what’s great about football. We watch the same game and we can disagree as hard as ever. 
 

No way Messi is better than Pelé. And he he’s been too average during world cups to be compared to Diego.

 

About Maradona, I read some said he won the WC on his own. That’s not true, Argentina had a great team in 86 with Valdano, Burruchaga, ect

The WC argument is absolutely hilarious and such a redundant and vague method of ratting a player.  But by your token Messi was absolutely phenomenal in 2014 carried that team and of Higuain finishes that 1 on 1 he’s a world champion. The CL is a higher level than the WC now and messi’s performances in that have been ridiculous for 13+ years, the guy can literally dribble past an entire team on his own, he’s the best free kick taker there’s ever been, his incisive passing and touch are unrivalled and he’s been scoring around 50 goals a season for about 10 years.

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Maradona is a leader and one if the best , but he went often missing because of  his lifestyle : nightlife, alcohol, drugs, girls. 
 

His peak did not last. That’s what’s crazy with Messi, and Ronaldo, their consistency over the years !

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Pele was a player who would have been world class in any era and he did it a  time when defenders could literally get away with anything I mean the guy was  kicked out of a World Cup....Is he better than Maradona and Messi well that is what sport is all about a bit like is Woods better than Nicklaus 
Also Pele was such a genius that he produced two of the most iconic misses in sport I mean the Uruguay one is unbelievable and I’ve never seen anything like it to this day ...


 

 

 

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The thing I dont like about Messi now is that as soon as he realises Barcelona are going to need a rebuilding job he wants to fuck off.

 

It's not like they've been relegated and he has to go to play in the segunda division or that they have to play in the Europa League . Batistuta stayed at Fiorentina when they got relegated and a lot of the Juventus players who were there when they got relegated stayed on. Then you have Gerrard who stayed with us even though we were shite for large periods.

 

But Messi who has been centre of attention, had managers and new signings run past him whilst being paid a million quid a week just wants to leave because he just cant be arsed with them now they have gone a bit shit. 

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3 minutes ago, LFC 6 Times said:

The WC argument is absolutely hilarious and such a redundant and vague method of ratting a player.  But by your token Messi was absolutely phenomenal in 2014 carried that team and of Higuain finishes that 1 on 1 he’s a world champion. The CL is a higher level than the WC now and messi’s performances in that have been ridiculous for 13+ years, the guy can literally dribble past an entire team on his own, he’s the best free kick taker there’s ever been, his incisive passing and touch are unrivalled and he’s been scoring around 50 goals a season for about 10 years.

You’re right mate, but still he failed in WC, and even though CL is harder, WC remains the most prestigious trophy for many players. I think he also underperformed in South America.

 

So Messi did not perform well with Argentina, it’s just a fact, even though he’s one of the best ever.

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2 minutes ago, Josef Svejk said:

Is anybody who rates Messi above Maradona old enough to have seen Maradona play at his peak?

Yes to both but I actually agree with Stickman above and the futility of comparing players of different eras

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The only time you would see Maradona play is during the World Cup or Sportsnight when Napoli were playing in Europe. There was no coverage of Serie A at all unless you watched Sgorio on S4C which only started doing it in 1989/1990 and that was depending on you actually getting a decent picture!

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4 minutes ago, Josef Svejk said:

I don't think it's futile at all. Not if you've actually witnessed the players in question.

I'm not saying you can't have personal opinions on who was the best . We all do but but I won't convince you Messi was better than Maradona or vice versa . That's the futile bit. 

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1 minute ago, magicrat said:

I'm not saying you can't have personal opinions on who was the best . We all do but but I won't convince you Messi was better than Maradona or vice versa . That's the futile bit. 

I fully respect your right to be utterly wrong!

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1 hour ago, M_B said:

He pretty much won Seria A by himself and helped propel that league into its golden era.

 

If you had to choose between a prime time Messi or a prime time Maradonna, you're going to pick Maradonna every time aren't you? The man was a machine.

 

 

This is silliness, Napoli had a really good team, Careca was up front. Ciro Ferrara in defence, young Zola on the bench.
Italian football became the dominant force in Europe once English clubs were banned, it didn’t take Maradona to put it there.

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1 hour ago, M_B said:

He pretty much won Seria A by himself and helped propel that league into its golden era.

 

If you had to choose between a prime time Messi or a prime time Maradonna, you're going to pick Maradonna every time aren't you? The man was a machine.

 

 

Messi scored 91 goals in a calendar year.

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He's the most effective attacking player of all time. That really isn't up for debate, in my mind. Natural talent's harder to quantify, and you could have an argument about that (to my mind Brazilian Ronaldo runs him fairly close), but in terms of consistent output over a number of years only plazzy Ronaldo gets close to him.

 

281 assists and 634 goals at the highest level of football  is just incredible, and literally unparalleled (probably, I can't be arsed checking, but it must be).

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