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Messi


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23 minutes ago, LFC 6 Times said:

Just bury your head in the sand, “oh it was tougher to score back then, defenders were tougher.” These claims are completely undermined when you just look at the unavoidable facts and remove the nostalgic partisan outlook, Maradona’s best goal scoring season in Europe 28 compared to Messi’s 73.

 

The idea that those defenders in the 80s, were at an unbelievable level just doesn’t hold water. The players were no where near as fit as a consequence of diet, lifestyle and training standards at the time, the game was largely unprofessional at the time, the speed of the game isn’t even comparable to what it is now, players are fitter due to better conditioning, have less time on the ball and making it in the game is harder than ever.

Wasn’t Maradona more a playmaker than a forward?

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Maradona dragged an average Argentina side to a World Cup victory. Messi is a little hobbit who would be about 4 foot 3 if he hadn't been juiced up on human growth hormone, and even then he's done the square root of fuck all at international level.

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3 hours ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

Maradona dragged an average Argentina side to a World Cup victory. Messi is a little hobbit who would be about 4 foot 3 if he hadn't been juiced up on human growth hormone, and even then he's done the square root of fuck all at international level.

Messi scored 4 goals in the 2014 World Cup when Argentina got to the final and lost to Germany.  He won the Golden Ball for best player at the World Cup.

Maradona scored 4 in the 1986 World Cup when Argentina got to the final and beat Germany.  He won the Golden Ball for best player at the World Cup.

 

Messi also has scored more goals in world cup qualifying than any other player in history (joint with Suarez).  He's also scored 70 international goals - top scorer in Argentina's history.

 

You can think Diego was better, and certainly him in 1986 was better than anything Messi has done at a world cup, but "square root of fuck all" at international level is just silly hyperbole.

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15 hours ago, Code said:

Messi is without a shadow of doubt the best footballer ever to grace this planet.

 

This ridiculous stuff people do when it comes to footballers and comparisons between different eras is insane.
 

Its like saying Edwin Moses was a better 400m hurdles athlete than Karsten Warholm just because he was unbeaten for 107 races, had the World record and won Championships and Olympic golds back in his day.

 

But Warholm is obviously better. 

Never heard of Karsten Warholm but I bet he's Norwegian. 

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6 hours ago, Jose Jones said:

Messi scored 4 goals in the 2014 World Cup when Argentina got to the final and lost to Germany.  He won the Golden Ball for best player at the World Cup.

Maradona scored 4 in the 1986 World Cup when Argentina got to the final and beat Germany.  He won the Golden Ball for best player at the World Cup.

 

Messi also has scored more goals in world cup qualifying than any other player in history (joint with Suarez).  He's also scored 70 international goals - top scorer in Argentina's history.

 

You can think Diego was better, and certainly him in 1986 was better than anything Messi has done at a world cup, but "square root of fuck all" at international level is just silly hyperbole.

He wasn’t the best player in WC 2014, political choice. He was fine, far away from what he’s beeb doing at club level. 

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9 hours ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

Maradona dragged an average Argentina side to a World Cup victory. Messi is a little hobbit who would be about 4 foot 3 if he hadn't been juiced up on human growth hormone, and even then he's done the square root of fuck all at international level.

That Argentine team was not average, they were very good actually with great players like Burruchaga, Valdano ...

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9 minutes ago, Arnaud said:

He wasn’t the best player in WC 2014, political choice. He was fine, far away from what he’s beeb doing at club level. 

Yeah true. 
He probably would have been a good choice had Argentina won, looked like it was decided before the final though.

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I don't see the point in arguing which player is better. Both are standard bearers for their respective eras. For what it's worth, I don't think Messi would have been as dominant in Maradona's era, just like I don't think Maradona would have been effective in the current era. The game back then was played at a much slower pace, and teams utilised hatchet men to neutralise their opponents' best players. They were allowed to get away with so much more. The tactics and team set-ups used were different. There is more knowledge and awareness of players now than there was back then. Argentina are fortunate to have had not one but two players of such quality.

 

Another thing I don't get is this view that Argentina in 1986 were a bunch of pub footballers carried by a genius to a World Cup win. Maradona was phenomenal back then, but his supporting cast were clearly strong enough as a unit to do what they did. Argentina at their best have always been this mixture of silk and steel. By saying the other Argentina players were bang-average is to say that all the other players and teams at that tournament were less than that.

 

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16 minutes ago, Trumo said:

I don't see the point in arguing which player is better. Both are standard bearers for their respective eras. For what it's worth, I don't think Messi would have been as dominant in Maradona's era, just like I don't think Maradona would have been effective in the current era. The game back then was played at a much slower pace, and teams utilised hatchet men to neutralise their opponents' best players. They were allowed to get away with so much more. The tactics and team set-ups used were different. There is more knowledge and awareness of players now than there was back then. Argentina are fortunate to have had not one but two players of such quality.

 

Another thing I don't get is this view that Argentina in 1986 were a bunch of pub footballers carried by a genius to a World Cup win. Maradona was phenomenal back then, but his supporting cast were clearly strong enough as a unit to do what they did. Argentina at their best have always been this mixture of silk and steel. By saying the other Argentina players were bang-average is to say that all the other players and teams at that tournament were less than that.

 

Dont think Argentina come close to winning in 86 without him though.  There were a lot of good teams at that WC. 

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57 minutes ago, Istvan Kuntstain said:

of course but does it tell the whole story? Messi in 2006 and 2010 got 1 goal, Maradona in Mexico scored or created 10 of Argentina's 14 goals

Mate, Maradona in 86 is probably the best individual performance over a single World Cup there’s ever been. 


All I’m saying is to say Messi has done fuck all in international football is a bit silly.

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2 hours ago, Arnaud said:

That Argentine team was not average, they were very good actually with great players like Burruchaga, Valdano ...

 

Don't forget Jose Luis Brown. A personal favourite of mine.

 

Ah fuck, I just googled him and he died from Alzheimers a year ago.

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Messi is probably the most skilful footballer ever but that doesn't make him the best. I've never thought he has the same sheer will to win and refusal to be beaten as the likes of Pele, Diego and Ronaldo. Of course he's won hundreds of games with his ability but I've also seen him shuffling around with that mopey look on his face instead of grabbing a game by the balls. 

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The way he meekly accepted that 8-2 was not becoming of the 'greatest player ever'. My boy Diego would have started a riot rather than just stand around moping like Messi did.

 

Maradona will always be number one for me but I'm not going to argue with anyone who says it's Messi. His career speaks for itself and there's a joy watching him in full flow that you just don't get with, say, Ronaldo. So yeah, the case for Messi being the best ever is really strong.

 

Ronaldo has made the most of the huge talent he has by having an incredibly single minded approach and unmatched attitude when it comes to looking after his body. I don't like him but I've got massive respect for him. Ability wise he's not even on the same planet as Messi so it's a tribute to his mentality that he's even made it a discussion.

 

Messi just has more natural talent than anyone else other than Diego though.

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