Other football - 2020/21

[Pete]

12 minutes ago, Aw Geez said:

 

Poor Pep. If only he had the budget to assemble a squad to compete.

What a cunt he's proving to be. 

[dockers_strike]

2 hours ago, sir roger said:

Just not sure why in every other major footballing country in Europe the 92nd level club would be basically playing in a beefed up park league while ours , in a smaller country than most, have to be full time.

It's a good question and one I dont profess to know the answer to except clubs want to be professional. Back in the late 50's when we had 3rd Division North and South, it was the clubs themselves who wanted to play nationally at that level and we got the 3rd and 4th Divisions.

 

Even at Conference \ National League level, the top clubs there want to be professional.

 

Turning the question around, it baffles me why similarly sized countries effectively only have two top league and everything else is regionalised?

[magicrat]

33 minutes ago, dockers_strike said:

It's a good question and one I dont profess to know the answer to except clubs want to be professional. Back in the late 50's when we had 3rd Division North and South, it was the clubs themselves who wanted to play nationally at that level and we got the 3rd and 4th Divisions.

 

Even at Conference \ National League level, the top clubs there want to be professional.

 

Turning the question around, it baffles me why similarly sized countries effectively only have two top league and everything else is regionalised?

Probably because we have a massive population for our size and football is by far and away the most popular sport

[dockers_strike]

5 minutes ago, magicrat said:

Probably because we have a massive population for our size and football is by far and away the most popular sport

Maybe. Germany, Italy and France all have a population of roughly equal size to England, Spain a little less but all only have two major professional leagues compared to our 4 and a bit. Yes, there may be nuances here and there a little in some of those countries as well.

 

I think the fact that hisorically football started here also has something to do with it. Teams in the National League hoping to get in the EFL also see the need to be full time pros as a means to an end and attain the fitness levels needed.

[magicrat]

1 minute ago, dockers_strike said:

Maybe. Germany, Italy and France all have a population of roughly equal size to England, Spain a little less but all only have two major professional leagues compared to our 4 and a bit. Yes, there may be nuances here and there a little in some of those countries as well.

 

I think the fact that hisorically football started here also has something to do with it. Teams in the National League hoping to get in the EFL also see the need to be full time pros as a means to an end and attain the fitness levels needed.

Good points but I still think the 55-60 million crammed into England is the main reason. Small clubs travelling the length and breadth of France , Italy or Spain to play in front of a couple of thousand fans can't possibly be viable 

[dockers_strike]

2 minutes ago, magicrat said:

Good points but I still think the 55-60 million crammed into England is the main reason. Small clubs travelling the length and breadth of France , Italy or Spain to play in front of a couple of thousand fans can't possibly be viable 

Yeah, quite possibly.

[Trumo]

I don't know what the answer is to resolving the situation.

 

The English system barely sustains 92 league clubs (and there are professional clubs further down the pyramid too - usually those that have recently dropped out of the Football League) so it's inevitable that under circumstances like the ones we're facing, several could be facing extinction. We've already seen Bury forced to close (and that was before the pandemic was even a thing). Bolton came close to going under. Macclesfield have been liquidated because they owed half a million quid (a paltry sum given the hundreds of millions sloshing around in the Premier League), and again that was an issue for them before the pandemic hit.

 

Lower-league clubs are reliant upon the money they make at the turnstiles and via concessions. They don't make an awful lot from corporate hospitality or sponsorship. They usually require a cash injection from club owners to help tide themselves over. If they have a decent player on their hands, they might make a tidy sum by selling him to a team much higher up.

 

I can't imagine the situation some clubs are facing. For every £100 they bring in, they already have expenses of £120 to account for. If all of a sudden, they are only bringing in say £30, they still have that £120 to account for. The struggle was already real, but now it is nigh-on impossible.

 

[dockers_strike]

22 minutes ago, Trumo said:

I don't know what the answer is to resolving the situation.

 

The English system barely sustains 92 league clubs (and there are professional clubs further down the pyramid too - usually those that have recently dropped out of the Football League) so it's inevitable that under circumstances like the ones we're facing, several could be facing extinction. We've already seen Bury forced to close (and that was before the pandemic was even a thing). Bolton came close to going under. Macclesfield have been liquidated because they owed half a million quid (a paltry sum given the hundreds of millions sloshing around in the Premier League), and again that was an issue for them before the pandemic hit.

 

Lower-league clubs are reliant upon the money they make at the turnstiles and via concessions. They don't make an awful lot from corporate hospitality or sponsorship. They usually require a cash injection from club owners to help tide themselves over. If they have a decent player on their hands, they might make a tidy sum by selling him to a team much higher up.

 

I can't imagine the situation some clubs are facing. For every £100 they bring in, they already have expenses of £120 to account for. If all of a sudden, they are only bringing in say £30, they still have that £120 to account for. The struggle was already real, but now it is nigh-on impossible.

 

Yeah, I read something that said EFL clubs have been issuing new contracts to players reducing their wages while the clubs have no fans in the stadiums.

 

Obviously I dont know if that's new contracts en masse or as old one expire or agreed between the clubs and players overall.

 

Im all for PL clubs helping out lower league clubs, especially League One and Two. Even with fans in stadiums, I think all PL clubs should hand over their share of gate money for away domestic cup games and while fans arent in stadiums, should let them keep all the tv income for the away televised cup games.

 

That said, Im reluctant to have PL clubs giving bucketfuls of money to EFL clubs if they dont subscribe to some form of financial responsibility. What I mean by that is I dont think the money should just be spunked on increasing the lower league players wages or clubs going on a spending spree buying more players.

 

It does cause me a bit of conflict saying the money shouldnt be used to increase the lower league players wages as I believe in proper reward via them. In the short term, subsidising wages is all well and good but, in the longer term, like Liverpool, I firmly believe all clubs should be self sustaining and live within their means.

[Arnaud]

2 hours ago, dockers_strike said:

Yeah, I read something that said EFL clubs have been issuing new contracts to players reducing their wages while the clubs have no fans in the stadiums.

 

Obviously I dont know if that's new contracts en masse or as old one expire or agreed between the clubs and players overall.

 

Im all for PL clubs helping out lower league clubs, especially League One and Two. Even with fans in stadiums, I think all PL clubs should hand over their share of gate money for away domestic cup games and while fans arent in stadiums, should let them keep all the tv income for the away televised cup games.

 

That said, Im reluctant to have PL clubs giving bucketfuls of money to EFL clubs if they dont subscribe to some form of financial responsibility. What I mean by that is I dont think the money should just be spunked on increasing the lower league players wages or clubs going on a spending spree buying more players.

 

It does cause me a bit of conflict saying the money shouldnt be used to increase the lower league players wages as I believe in proper reward via them. In the short term, subsidising wages is all well and good but, in the longer term, like Liverpool, I firmly believe all clubs should be self sustaining and live within their means.

Totally agree with your last sentence, but, they are fuck with no fans into stadium aren’t they, I guess gates fee is their main source of revenue.

 

In France, three leagues are professional, don’t really know how they are making money as crowds are nothing to compare with England.

[TheHowieLama]

I would think that the majority of players in the bottom divisions in England have other jobs right?

 

[Trumo]

20 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

I would think that the majority of players in the bottom divisions in England have other jobs right?

 

 

I'm pretty sure every player at the 92 league clubs is fully pro.

[Bjornebye]

2 minutes ago, Trumo said:

 

I'm pretty sure every player at the 92 league clubs is fully pro.

James at Everton has two jobs. Instagram Influencer and then moonlights as a footballer. 

[Elite]

Maureen's man management skills are shocking.

[TheHowieLama]

11 minutes ago, Trumo said:

 

I'm pretty sure every player at the 92 league clubs is fully pro.

You think?

 

I mean what could they be making at the lowest level. Schoolteachers get jobs in the summer they make so little.

The Rowdies here in Tampa , more than a few have outside jobs.

[Jairzinho]

5 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

I mean what could they be making at the lowest level.

More than other options.

[Trumo]

2 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

You think?

 

I mean what could they be making at the lowest level. Schoolteachers get jobs in the summer they make so little.

The Rowdies here in Tampa , more than a few have outside jobs.

 

When washing cars won't make up the shortfall, there's always the let's-start-cooking-crystal-meth option.

[TheHowieLama]

1 minute ago, Jairzinho said:

More than other options.

That depends on the individual. Not saying for all and not sure how they compare (which is why I asked) but there was a lad with the Rowdies who made more in the summer as a marketing lackey than he did the whole season playing footy.

USL is trying to make up the minimum salary to 20k. Which means there are fellas making less at this point.

[Harry Squatter]

Alicia Schmidt a German athlete and allegedly Dortmunds new fitness coach. 

 

 

[Anubis]

40 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

James at Everton has two jobs. Instagram Influencer and then moonlights as a footballer. 

Davies is a clothes horse who also moonlights as a footballer.

[Jairzinho]

38 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

That depends on the individual. Not saying for all and not sure how they compare (which is why I asked) but there was a lad with the Rowdies who made more in the summer as a marketing lackey than he did the whole season playing footy.

USL is trying to make up the minimum salary to 20k. Which means there are fellas making less at this point.

Well, there are calls for a salary cap. 

 

It is, and has been for some time, completely unsustainable to have five national professional leagues. It doesn't happen in Spain, Germany or Italy. Even in our sixth tier, split into two divisions north and south, lots of clubs have huge wage bills.

 

It's going to stop fairly soon, whether by design or otherwise, and sadly lots of clubs are probably going to go bust in the process.

[Jairzinho]

Good thread this -

 

 

90k a year average for the 4th tier of football.

[Stickman]

2 hours ago, Doctor Troy said:

Alicia Schmidt a German athlete and allegedly Dortmunds new fitness coach. 

 

 

And here’s me thinking it was the thought of being coached by Ole that was the reason Jadon Sancho didn't want to go to Utd 

[Barnesey]

I believe the national league (step 1)is also full time. My lad plays at step 5 and knows that a large number of talented players would rather play at step 3 and have a more conventional job than move to full time professional status. Distorts matters somewhat but understandable when you can earn £500-1000 a week at Step 3.

 

Football at all levels is funded by sponsorship to some degree and there are a lot of individuals who enjoy spending some of their cash on a pet club whether it is the local butcher or the Nevilles plus mates. Gate money is crucial for the full time clubs (with the possible exception of the Prem) but less so (if never irrelevant) as you come down the pyramid.

[Anubis]

I think the reason we have so many leagues is down to how insular we are as a country. I always remember a conversation I had with an Australian lad when I was youth hosteling in the Lake District back when I was a teenager. He said that the one thing about the UK he couldn’t wrap his head around was how you could be in one place and then go 20 miles down the road and suddenly find a whole different accent, slang words and language ecosystem. We are a nation of small towns with a few big cities and you can see how it would be in our nature to all want our own distinct sports teams.

[sir roger]

2 hours ago, Anubis said:

I think the reason we have so many leagues is down to how insular we are as a country. I always remember a conversation I had with an Australian lad when I was youth hosteling in the Lake District back when I was a teenager. He said that the one thing about the UK he couldn’t wrap his head around was how you could be in one place and then go 20 miles down the road and suddenly find a whole different accent, slang words and language ecosystem. We are a nation of small towns with a few big cities and you can see how it would be in our nature to all want our own distinct sports teams.

I think I saw him on The Wicker Man