Working in an office

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

What’s happening with them woman you hate? 

I'm hearing it was her who sent the email.

[Sugar Ape]

Ho hum (part II)

 

 

 

[TheHowieLama]

 

[Neil G]

20 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 

Only the piece of work Das Kapital wishes it had been.

[Baltar]

I've been working from home since the lockdown and I don't enjoy it for multiple reasons. Yes I'm saving a decent amount of money on food and travel and avoiding public transport has been great. But now I feel as if the lines between my home life and work life are blurred. When I left the office I would switch off from work until the next day. Now I find myself working more and more for some reason. I miss the interaction with colleagues too, as well as friends/former colleagues working nearby. I just feel at home I'm stuck indoors all day and it's driving me mad, especially with the kids running around not giving me a moments peace. My current accommodation isn't suited for a home office so I'm going through the hassle of looking for a new place. On top of that I'm getting more and more wound up by the missus (who works part time so is home most of the time) who wants me to take on added chores and tasks since I'm now at home full time, things I wouldn't do when I'm at the office and I'm not best pleased about that. Does that make me a whiney cunt? Possibly but either way I have felt a lot more tension with the misses since lockdown.

 

The long-term effects could also be a worry. If you're not needed to be in the office, you could eventually become dispensable. Why would companies pay someone a decent salary to sit at home in the UK when they could potentially pay half that amount to someone sitting a home in a much cheaper country? I expect outsourcing to become a major problem over the coming years.

 

Looking at it from a less selfish perspective, I'm worried about the economy of former office heartlands. It's not just coffee shops and sandwich bars that are suffering from a lack of office workers. Countless businesses will continue to suffer if city centres remain deserted. Bars, pubs, restaurants, hotels, builders, electricians, plumbers, security, cleaners, transport workers. The list of industries dependent on a thriving office environment is endless . These people will be struggling and will lose jobs and the knock on effect will continue. 

[TheHowieLama]

6 minutes ago, Baltar said:

The list of industries dependent on a thriving office environment is endless . These people will be struggling and will lose jobs and the knock on effect will continue. 

 Bars, pubs, restaurants, hotels, builders, electricians, plumbers, security, cleaners, transport workers. 

 

The first four have little to do with daily office traffic - maybe you could suggest business travellers but still not really that much in the grand scheme. Builders - might not need anymore office space tbh - alot of it was vacant before virus. People still live somewhere so electricians, plumbers should be ok. 

Transport workers - like bus drivers? Uber eats - Shipt - they are killing it.

[Baltar]

4 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

 Bars, pubs, restaurants, hotels, builders, electricians, plumbers, security, cleaners, transport workers. 

 

The first four have little to do with daily office traffic - maybe you could suggest business travellers but still not really that much in the grand scheme. Builders - might not need anymore office space tbh - alot of it was vacant before virus. People still live somewhere so electricians, plumbers should be ok. 

Transport workers - like bus drivers? Uber eats - Shipt - they are killing it.

Bars, pubs, restaurants get a lot of their customers from local offices. In the City of London, virtually all customers of these types of establishments are office workers. Hotels less so but still, I've stayed in hotels around the country specifically because they are close to the regional office and that's true of many others so again, hotels will be losing a regular stream of patrons if everyone works from home. As for builders - they'll have less work if no new offices are being built or existing ones needing maintenance. Same goes for electricians, plumbers, painter decorators, handy men, specialists that maintain office-specific things such as elevators, fire systems, security, hell even the guy that brings in new water coolers, delivers fruit, suppliers of vending machines, canteen food etc. Like I said, it's endless and yes many of these workers will have other customers but taking out offices is going to be enormously detrimental and nothing will fill the void that leaves.

[TheHowieLama]

@BaltarYea, I get that - but the whole reason for that "economy" is based on geography - location, location, location.

And everything (food, housing, transit, entertainment) is inflated because it needs to be next to the fire.

The one thing the world does have going for it now is space, empty land - alot. Allowing folks to participate in the machine (read: get paid) in different places is the best thing that could happen and would be the quickest way to begin to decentralize wealth.

[Rico1304]

Things I’ll miss from the office;

 

- the post room bloke who used to say ‘you know me, I like it warm, but not this warm’

- that time there was a dog in the car park and one of my mates shouted ‘there’s a dog in the car park’ really excitedly. We still take the piss 10 years later

- flirting, when I was young enough to flirt

- dinner time pints

- coming in pissed when the World Cup was in a country with a different time zone

- finding out someone is having an affair

 

[Chairman Meow]

Since I've been self employed and not had to deal with working in the typical office environment I have found I miss absolutely nothing.

 

I'm totally fucking skint in cash terms and living on about £20 a week, but not having to deal with managers fucking about trying to justify their own existence or micro managing like fuck to try and engineer examples to get promotion etc. is more than worth the drop in income.

[YorkshireRed]

8 minutes ago, Chairman Meow said:

Since I've been self employed and not had to deal with working in the typical office environment I have found I miss absolutely nothing.

This. 

[Rotpeter]

9 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

@BaltarYea, I get that - but the whole reason for that "economy" is based on geography - location, location, location.

And everything (food, housing, transit, entertainment) is inflated because it needs to be next to the fire.

The one thing the world does have going for it now is space, empty land - alot. Allowing folks to participate in the machine (read: get paid) in different places is the best thing that could happen and would be the quickest way to begin to decentralize wealth.

The new machine, though, will be designed by the people who brought you 0 hour contracts and the gig economy. Wealth decentralization won't be the priority.

[Dougie Do'ins]

19 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

 Bars, pubs, restaurants, hotels, builders, electricians, plumbers, security, cleaners, transport workers. 

 

The first four have little to do with daily office traffic - maybe you could suggest business travellers but still not really that much in the grand scheme. Builders - might not need anymore office space tbh - alot of it was vacant before virus. People still live somewhere so electricians, plumbers should be ok. 

Transport workers - like bus drivers? Uber eats - Shipt - they are killing it.

Of course they do.

 

Daily office traffic touches much more than just the office. People want to work in a place that has those on it's doorstep. They go hand in hand with the office industry.

 

Part of my job is based around office space and I'm seeing the fallout of this every day. The amount of space that is being vacated is scary. Some have just not bothered to come back to claim their office furnishings. Keys cumming back in the post and that's it. Some of those that are staying are downsizing. I'm seeing cleaning contractors slashing the hours of staff. Waste collectors are being reduced from three collections a week to one a week. Window cleaners are taking a hit. A lot of these plumbers and electricians will specialise in the commercial sector. What about the tech suppliers ? Phone lines, internet connections ? The list goes on.

 

Anyone who works on or near Old Hall Street will tell you it's deadly. Places that would usually be busy at breakfast and diner times are empty. 

 

 

[Sugar Ape]

All sorts of sectors are going to be fucked before this is over. Some related, at least in part, to office working and some not. 
 

This is only accelerating what was already happening though. Well before Covid existed my workplace was looking at home working for more and more people, for at least part of the time anyway. 
 

If you look at any non public sector business then why would they pay for office space in expensive locations when they could have staff working from home? Everyone will be looking to downsize. 
 

My mate works for a small company with about 30 people in town (not sure what he does exactly, he’s told me about a dozen times and it never sticks) and the whole company has been working from home since March. They gave up their office a few weeks ago and have never been more productive. I know it’s going to cost jobs in building maintenance and cleaners and surrounding businesses, but the boss of his company isn’t going to shell out thousands of pounds a year in rent and rates when he doesn’t need it. We’re going to see big changes short, medium and long term. 
 

I don’t buy into this other shit people are saying like that Tory cunt Kirstie Allsopp either about if you can work at home then your employer will transfer your job out of the country if you don’t get back to the office as its cheaper for them. 
 

If your job can be done at home, and your employer was minded to offshore it, then they’d do it whether you came into the office or not. 

[Dougie Do'ins]

3 minutes ago, Sugar Ape said:

All sorts of sectors are going to be fucked before this is over. Some related, at least in part, to office working and some not. 
 

This is only accelerating what was already happening though. Well before Covid existed my workplace was looking at home working for more and more people, for at least part of the time anyway. 
 

If you look at any non public sector business then why would they pay for office space in expensive locations when they could have staff working from home? Everyone will be looking to downsize. 
 

My mate works for a small company with about 30 people in town (not sure what he does exactly, he’s told me about a dozen times and it never sticks) and the whole company has been working from home since March. They gave up their office a few weeks ago and have never been more productive. I know it’s going to cost jobs in building maintenance and cleaners and surrounding businesses,but the boss of his company isn’t going to shell out thousands of pounds a year in rent and rates when he doesn’t need it. We’re going to see big changes short, medium and long term. 

 

I don’t buy into this other shit people are saying like that Tory cunt Kirstie Allsopp either about if you can work at home then your employer will transfer your job out of the country if you don’t get back to the office as its cheaper for them. 
 

If your job can be done at home, and your employer was minded to offshore it, then they’d do it whether you came into the office or not. 

I agree with all of that especially the bit in bold. Bosses who might have just toyed with the idea before now know they can do it with staff working at home and slash the costs. It's been proven to work. The I.T infrastructure has proved it can handle the load and if it suits peoples lifestyles, why not. 

 

A lot of these office block owners might have to rethink how they're buildings are used going forward.

[Bjornebye]

On 04/08/2020 at 21:17, Mook said:

I forgot to update you on that, sorry. She's been taken off marking my work in future, my boss also had someone from another team assess my calls & my scores went up to the extent that I've gone from failing to passing fairly comfortably.

 

She's still off looking after her daughter who has some rare type of leukaemia so the matter is closed as far as I'm concerned.

That’s good then mate. She either hates you or wants to screw you but knows it will cause problems. 
 

Hope her daughter gets better. 
 

 

[Mook]

13 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

That’s good then mate. She either hates you or wants to screw you but knows it will cause problems. 
 

Hope her daughter gets better. 
 

 

My boss said he'd like to get us together when she comes back to sort our issues out, I pointed out there was no need because I didn't have any issues with anyone.

 

On her daughter, I wouldn't wish that on anyone, she's the same age as my oldest Son & it just doesn't bear thinking about, that happening to your child. Your worst nightmare X 10.

[Section_31]

I reckon this is gonna force a few forward thinking countries to accelerate the journey towards things like universal basic income. Economies have been floundering for years and it was never gonna take much to finish them off. The idea of building city centre economies around student debt and an ever shrinking retail and leisure sector was never gonna last. It's almost pathetic in a sense, the idea that an economy is being supported by a coffee shop with staff on minimum wage, which the government has to pay you to go to, and which after the scheme ends will probably go bust anyway. 

[Sugar Ape]

 

[YorkshireRed]

12 minutes ago, Sugar Ape said:

 

There’s no doubt this is true. In fact lockdown has just accelerated a desire for, and utilisation of, more flexible working practices that has been around for a good few years. Some sectors and specific companies do this better than others but the numbers are no surprise.

 

What I have noticed on LinkedIn of late is a number of posts and articles in favour of office working. You never saw this before but it’s clear that, for all those hoping the acceleration of change towards flexible working continues, there are others desperate to protect whatever it is about office culture they need. 
 

The answer is of course, where possible, choice. When employees request flexible working now, their employer is supposed to look at what can reasonably be done to support this, not what barriers prevent it. It doesn’t mean they have to say yes, but it’s a subtle mindset shift from years gone by where the default answer would, more often than not, be no. 

[Sugar Ape]

That quote from Sadiq Khan at the bottom is precisely what I’ve been talking about. I’m sure he’s right but it just isn’t a winning argument and if they want more people coming back into offices they need something different to say. 
 

Highlighting the fact a lot of people have been spending money on public transport, coffee and sandwiches that they didn’t need to as reasons to get back just doesn’t seem like it’s going to work. 
 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/17/pwc-and-schroders-staff-can-still-work-from-home-after-covid-crisis?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

PricewaterhouseCoopers and Schroders are to allow the majority of staff to continue to work from home after the Covid-19 pandemic as the health emergency sparks a major shift in the office-based culture that has been a hallmark of City firms for generations.

 

The accounting company PwC, which employs 22,000 staff in the UK, is predicting that the majority of employees will move to a more even split of home and office working on a permanent basis.

UK office workers slower to return to their desk after Covid

 

Last week PwC had just a little over a quarter of its staff spending time in one of its 20 UK offices, a spokesman said.

 

“There’s no question that lockdown has done away with presenteeism,” said Kevin Ellis, the chairman and senior partner at PwC. “It’s shown many business leaders that their people can be productive, engaged and happy working from home.”

 

The company hopes to have its offices at 50% capacity by the end of September, if it is safe to do so, although returning will be voluntary.

 

Schroders, the FTSE-100 listed fund manager, has told staff that they will not be required to return to the office full time even after the heath emergency has passed.

 

“Rethinking the rulebook on flexibility will ultimately prove a huge shot in the arm for productivity in the long term,” said Emma Holden, the human resources boss at Schroders.

 

Prior to the pandemic, staff had the flexibility to work remotely one day a week. Under the new plan, staff are free to agree working patterns with their managers, with no set expectation of a number of days in the office.

 

Other City firms that have instituted permanent changes to working life include the broker Numis, which told staff in May that five-day-a-week office working will “simply not return”. Other financial firms, including Standard Life Aberdeen and NatWest Group, have indicated their staff will work remotely for the rest of this year at least.

 

The London mayor, Sadiq Khan, has warned that empty offices in the capital are already causing a major problem for the struggling economy, with homeworkers not needing to spend on travel, food or going out in London.

 

“The key thing I think we need to understand is that if we all stay at home working it’s a big problem for central London,” he said, in an interview with LBC. “Many small businesses rely on your workers going to work, the cafes, bars, the dry cleaners, the shoe repair shops and others.”

 

Last month Andrew Bailey, the governor of the Bank of England, encouraged companies to get staff back to their offices to help revive the faltering British economy.

[YorkshireRed]

7 minutes ago, Sugar Ape said:

That quote from Sadiq Khan at the bottom is precisely what I’ve been talking about. I’m sure he’s right but it just isn’t a winning argument and if they want more people coming back into offices they need something different to say. 
 

Highlighting the fact a lot of people have been spending money on public transport, coffee and sandwiches that they didn’t need to as reasons to get back just doesn’t seem like it’s going to work. 
 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/17/pwc-and-schroders-staff-can-still-work-from-home-after-covid-crisis?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

 

 

I’d go as far as to say it’s not the Office workers problem. Yes there’s an element of wanting to be a good citizen and support others but it shouldn’t be the primary argument. If there’s no significant benefit to attending the Office that means the employee is able to do their job better, then being able to buy an expensive sandwich at lunchtime isn’t a good enough reason to bring them in. 

[Strontium]

It's a stupid argument anyway, because people will just spend their money on other stuff, won't they. Abandoning horses for the internal combustion engine was a devastating blow for blacksmiths, but mechanics did pretty well out of it. Similarly, expensive sandwich shops might suffer, but other businesses will benefit. The whole idea of a free market is that it responds to changing trends like this.

[mattyq]

City of London will be fucked badly

As will a lot of local authorities that tax office space 

Everything is going to change

[Sugar Ape]

15 minutes ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

It's a stupid argument anyway, because people will just spend their money on other stuff, won't they. Abandoning horses for the internal combustion engine was a devastating blow for blacksmiths, but mechanics did pretty well out of it. Similarly, expensive sandwich shops might suffer, but other businesses will benefit. The whole idea of a free market is that it responds to changing trends like this.

Long term you’re absolutely correct but short term, and that is all politicians are arsed about let’s be honest, it’s going to cause chaos. Don’t think there is much they can do apart from roll with it though and try and minimise the damage. 
 

I wouldn’t want to be one of those companies you see popping up all over the place building luxury office space that’s for sure.