Working in an office

[Sugar Ape]

7 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

so my experience is certainly part of the city community, but includes tech firms that serve it. So the supplier i met yesterday for example actually in the main make their money out of providing IT solutions for universities. He has moved jobs to india, he is getting rid of some others. He is reshaping. And you're right, loads of jobs in liverpool from an office perspective probably are government based ones. That's not true in manchester, leeds and birmingham. Our council has had virtually no success in attracting business too it so we have an economy that is based out of govermnent and hospitality.

 

So sure, there's government jobs. And we have a tory government who will happily get rid of as many government jobs as they can to save money - and if the city or other verticals fall to bits, the economy will be on it's arse for a long time and all they will want to do is cut government jobs. Liverpool will be 1st in line, make no doubt about that. 

 

you make a good point about is it already too late and I think for sure it is for some. But I think blue chip level corporations have made this period a "just get through it". And there are loads of people holding and not quite sure what the future holds for us and how firms will change once people start to get back to the office and other environments. So for me, there is still chance to change perceptions. I think people are generally more creative in business when they work in groups. I think being in a competitive environment pushes people. And we learn from each other every single day we go to work. I think that breaks down in the main over skype - it just isn't the same. It's why prior to this pandemic even companies like google still have enormous hubs for people to work with when they've had the most advanced technology to allow working from home. Ultimately I think businesses that think they can be operated from spare bedrooms around the world will have it wrong. I am not saying some can't benefit, but I think in the main it is simply not true. What I don't want is by the time the world economy has realised that, the whole world has packed up and left the UK - as we have already seen when we pretty much shut down manufacturing in the 80s, it is pretty hard to rebuild that. 

We’re at an impasse again then because I think you’re overegging the way things will turn out, or rather the reasons for it. And I don’t think most people are advocating for permanent home working but more a hybrid model with a day or two a week in the office and the rest at home. The woman below from the Chartered management institute said before we should have a more blended working approach. I agree with that. 
 

The economy is fucked, short, medium and long term, but I don’t think a rush back to the office is going to solve much. It looks to me like it’s an easy thing for the Tories to focus on - Hey, look at the economy tanking. That’s because of those lazy office workers who won’t go back to the office and not because of our incompetence, Brexit and a fucking pandemic - but the economy is going to remain deeply damaged in all sectors until we have a vaccine in my opinion. 
 

My dad and brother work in Jag and they’ve already laid people off and there’s rumoured to be a lot more to come there as people just aren’t buying the cars abroad like they used to while all this is going on. 
 

And I think the pertinent point, and I’d have fucking loved someone to ask that smarmy cunt Shapps it this morning, is how do businesses get back to normal while we have social distancing? You can’t fit more than 50% of people in most offices with it, in some I’ve heard it’s even less with around 25-30% capacity. Aligned with social distancing and limits on the numbers of people in pubs and restaurants plus how wary some people are in general right now there is no way you are going to be able to get offices back to anywhere near full capacity and I’d imagine the same goes for the hospitality industry.

 

Also, the messaging from government over this is seriously bad and I can’t see it having much effect apart from whipping up some anger amongst pensioners. I was talking to a client yesterday who has been chocker working at home full time since this started, also has a kid to look after at the same time and has had to make two 70 mile round trips with the child a week to her office to pick up mail. And the government message to her is basically “Get back to work you lazy cunt”. Missing the point that people working from home have actually been working. 

[Sugar Ape]

Sorry here’s that quote I mentioned. 

 

More on the remote working debate - Ann Francke, chief executive of the Chartered Management Institute, is very strong on this. 
 

She says: 

At a time when most workers are still apprehensive about returning to the office, and with the number of infections rising in European countries among office workers, the government’s insistence that people rush back to the office is out of touch with reality.
 

Contrary to Grant Shapps’s claims this morning, our research has shown that companies can be just as productive – if not more so – with employees working from home. The pandemic has also catapulted working life into the future, encouraging more staff to take up a permanent blended working approach. This shift should be embraced by employers, and not discouraged by the government.

[cloggypop]

No surprise that Ann Francke doesn't want to leave the house. 

[Sugar Ape]

Nine out of 10 people want to work from home

 

The big push to get people back into the office, may have started but there is evidence to suggest that many people who have been working from home are significantly less keen on the idea than the government.

 

According to a report out today, nine out of 10 people in the UK who have worked from home during lockdown want to continue doing so.

PA reports:

 

The report – Homeworking in the UK: before and during the 2020 lockdown – is believed to be the first to analyse survey data focused on home working during the coronavirus pandemic.

 

It said working from home in the UK rose from 6% of employees before the start of the pandemic up to 43% in April, with results indicating that productivity mostly remained stable compared with the six months before.

 

Its publication comes after reports that the UK government is planning to encourage workers to return to offices amid concerns of the impact of home working on cities and towns.

 

The report, by academics at Cardiff University and the University of Southampton, said 88% of employees who worked at home during lockdown would like to continue doing so in some capacity, with 47% wanting to do so often or all the time.

 

About two-fifths (41%) said they got as much work done at home as they did six months earlier when most, but not all, were in their usual places of work.

 

More than a quarter (29%) said they got more done at home, while 30% said their productivity had fallen.

 

The surge in home working triggered by the lockdown mostly affected the highest-paid, the better-qualified, the higher-skilled and those living in London and the south-east.
 

Prof Alan Felstead, based at Cardiff University and the Wales Institute of Social and Economic Research, Data and Methods (WISERD), said the results suggested there could be a “major shift” from the traditional workplace.

He said: 

Quote

 

What is particularly striking is that many of those who have worked at home during lockdown would like to continue to work in this way, even when social distancing rules do not require them to.
 

These people are among the most productive, so preventing them from choosing how they work in the future does not make economic sense.
 

Giving employees flexibility on where they work could be extremely beneficial for companies as they attempt to recover from the impact of Covid-19.
 

 

 

Report co-author Darja Reuschke, from the University of Southampton, said: 

Quote

 

City centre high streets have been hard hit by the pandemic and are likely to remain quiet for some time to come as fewer people return to traditional places of work.

However, this also provides an opportunity for us to radically rethink our city centres as multi-use places that accommodate different kinds of economic uses and are not built around fast roads that connect workplaces with residences.

 

The report analysed data gathered for the Understanding Society Covid-19 Study, comprising three surveys by the Institute for Social and Economic Research, University of Essex, in April to June.

It questioned a representative sample of 6,000-7,000 workers who had worked at least one hour in the week before interview, and who provided information on where they worked either side of the lockdown.

 

[Barrington Womble]

10 minutes ago, Sugar Ape said:

We’re at an impasse again then because I think you’re overegging the way things will turn out, or rather the reasons for it. And I don’t think most people are advocating for permanent home working but more a hybrid model with a day or two a week in the office and the rest at home. The woman below from the Chartered management institute said before we should have a more blended working approach. I agree with that. 
 

The economy is fucked, short, medium and long term, but I don’t think a rush back to the office is going to solve much. It looks to me like it’s an easy thing for the Tories to focus on - Hey, look at the economy tanking. That’s because of those lazy office workers who won’t go back to the office and not because of our incompetence, Brexit and a fucking pandemic - but the economy is going to remain deeply damaged in all sectors until we have a vaccine in my opinion. 
 

My dad and brother work in Jag and they’ve already laid people off and there’s rumoured to be a lot more to come there as people just aren’t buying the cars abroad like they used to while all this is going on. 
 

And I think the pertinent point, and I’d have fucking loved someone to ask that smarmy cunt Shapps it this morning, is how do businesses get back to normal while we have social distancing? You can’t fit more than 50% of people in most offices with it, in some I’ve heard it’s even less with around 25-30% capacity. Aligned with social distancing and limits on the numbers of people in pubs and restaurants plus how wary some people are in general right now there is no way you are going to be able to get offices back to anywhere near full capacity and I’d imagine the same goes for the hospitality industry.

 

Also, the messaging from government over this is seriously bad and I can’t see it having much effect apart from whipping up some anger amongst pensioners. I was talking to a client yesterday who has been chocker working at home full time since this started, also has a kid to look after at the same time and has had to make two 70 mile round trips with the child a week to her office to pick up mail. And the government message to her is basically “Get back to work you lazy cunt”. Missing the point that people working from home have actually been working. 

i am not saying everyone will lose their jobs. it doesn't need everyone. it needs about 10% which will leave is completely fucked no matter which government we have. but i think we are at an impasse - i have read some of those article below and they're clearly written before there's the data backs them up (or they're selecting the data they want), as i have read articles saying 75% of us want to return to work for instance (which is also clearly shite), it's people asking questions to get the agenda they want. and that " provides an opportunity for us to radically rethink our city centres as multi-use places that accommodate different kinds of economic uses and are not built around fast roads that connect workplaces with residences". I don't even know where to being with that, just people who have no clue on what makes the world spin. the option on city centres if there's no shops and offices is no city centres! city centres exist because people go to them all of the time and mostly for work and shopping. and if we do decide to reshape them with, with what money and which jobs? And then if people are going to work in these city centres, how is that reshaping? But everyone is working from home, so what jobs are we building in city centres? It's just fucking nonsense. i know some people don't like this but aside from when we have wars, commerce drives and shapes everything we do. if commerce takes itself to another part of the world, we are screwed. 

 

I am basing what I am saying on what I am actually seeing what is happening and I pretty much don't care what someone from southampton universty is saying - i am seeing the sector i work in as changing already, it is a real thing, not some stupid study from a uni. i turn the news on every night and hear of this happening in other industries. in fact the news now is like the darkest times under thatcher. is getting back to the office fixing everything? Well of course not, but when you have a crisis on your hands, you use every tool possible to turn that around. all i am hearing right now is people are offering absolutely nothing to kick start the economy either inside or outside of government. So perhaps we are fucked, but I don't really see why we just sit and wait to see what happens - it's like the brexit thing. Is it shit and will it fuck us? Yes, absolutely, but we need to use every tool possible to ensure it fucks us to the minimum. The same is true with how we come out of this. 

[Sugar Ape]

8 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

i am not saying everyone will lose their jobs. it doesn't need everyone. it needs about 10% which will leave is completely fucked no matter which government we have. but i think we are at an impasse - i have read some of those article below and they're clearly written before there's the data backs them up (or they're selecting the data they want), as i have read articles saying 75% of us want to return to work for instance (which is also clearly shite), it's people asking questions to get the agenda they want. and that " provides an opportunity for us to radically rethink our city centres as multi-use places that accommodate different kinds of economic uses and are not built around fast roads that connect workplaces with residences". I don't even know where to being with that, just people who have no clue on what makes the world spin. the option on city centres if there's no shops and offices is no city centres! city centres exist because people go to them all of the time and mostly for work and shopping. and if we do decide to reshape them with, with what money and which jobs? And then if people are going to work in these city centres, how is that reshaping? But everyone is working from home, so what jobs are we building in city centres? It's just fucking nonsense. i know some people don't like this but aside from when we have wars, commerce drives and shapes everything we do. if commerce takes itself to another part of the world, we are screwed. 

 

I am basing what I am saying on what I am actually seeing what is happening and I pretty much don't care what someone from southampton universty is saying - i am seeing the sector i work in as changing already, it is a real thing, not some stupid study from a uni. i turn the news on every night and hear of this happening in other industries. in fact the news now is like the darkest times under thatcher. is getting back to the office fixing everything? Well of course not, but when you have a crisis on your hands, you use every tool possible to turn that around. all i am hearing right now is people are offering absolutely nothing to kick start the economy either inside or outside of government. So perhaps we are fucked, but I don't really see why we just sit and wait to see what happens - it's like the brexit thing. Is it shit and will it fuck us? Yes, absolutely, but we need to use every tool possible to ensure it fucks us to the minimum. The same is true with how we come out of this. 

I hear you, but there’s no real incentive for firms to get people back at the minute is there, providing their productivity is running fine with people wfh. Like I keep saying, I don’t know what they want businesses to do with social distancing rules in place. Even if they wanted to they’re unlikely to be able to get enough staff back to kickstart things the way they want. 
 

Truth is until we get a vaccine or they come up with something like rapid tests you can take daily or whatever then I just don’t see things changing too much. If we do have a serious spike in cases that is going to be disastrous too and will push the likelihood of people going back the office in any great numbers to virtually nil. 
 

I agree a lot of people have agendas relating to this which is why you’ll get the Telegraph pushing for everyone to go back regardless of the consequences and maybe the unions or Labour saying we should carry on as we are, but I don’t think we should ignore any research but acknowledge it’s still early days so it’s all just preliminary findings. 
 

I’ve got to say though the fact that the ‘get back to work’ campaign is almost exclusively Tories, the Tory press and right wing bellends like Littlejohn, Richard Tice and Toby Young instinctively makes me want to do the opposite. 

[Barrington Womble]

37 minutes ago, Sugar Ape said:

I hear you, but there’s no real incentive for firms to get people back at the minute is there, providing their productivity is running fine with people wfh. Like I keep saying, I don’t know what they want businesses to do with social distancing rules in place. Even if they wanted to they’re unlikely to be able to get enough staff back to kickstart things the way they want. 
 

Truth is until we get a vaccine or they come up with something like rapid tests you can take daily or whatever then I just don’t see things changing too much. If we do have a serious spike in cases that is going to be disastrous too and will push the likelihood of people going back the office in any great numbers to virtually nil. 
 

I agree a lot of people have agendas relating to this which is why you’ll get the Telegraph pushing for everyone to go back regardless of the consequences and maybe the unions or Labour saying we should carry on as we are, but I don’t think we should ignore any research but acknowledge it’s still early days so it’s all just preliminary findings. 
 

I’ve got to say though the fact that the ‘get back to work’ campaign is almost exclusively Tories, the Tory press and right wing bellends like Littlejohn, Richard Tice and Toby Young instinctively makes me want to do the opposite. 

So your last paragraph I completely understand. And if I wasn't watching my world change I might actually agree with you! 

 

I also completely get we're in the hands of science. I don't agree it needs a vaccine, it needs better medicine perhaps, but that doesn't have to mean a vaccine. People need to stop dying in huge numbers, but without wanting to sound like SD, we deal and live with flu that kills. If we can get it under that type of control, I don't think it should be driving decisions. 

 

Finally, I think it depends on the firm's with regards incentives to getting people back. As I've said before, many just won't and they'll take jobs abroad. And they mightn't all do it in one hit, just as people move jobs, they won't refill roles here as it's a bedroom job, it allows them to advertise it globally to anyone who's willing to work the correct hours. But I do also think because a lot of life (work and otherwise) went on hold, some companies ability to survive might depend on the path they choose out of this crisis, things will and have to start moving again. So I do actually think there's incentive. And getting back in the office provides people with the platform to demonstrate the value of colaboration and being here - but I know lots of people are just happy to not have to commute and don't care long term as they just think it'll be alright. The real problem I see with large organisations is when given 2 options they normally pick the cheapest one on the spreadsheet unless their culture is really driven from CEO level, so their vision may be able to beat the numbers. I think that happens in very few large organisations these days and the spreadsheet nearly always wins, sometimes in contradiction to all common sense. 

[Sugar Ape]

30 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

So your last paragraph I completely understand. And if I wasn't watching my world change I might actually agree with you! 

 

I also completely get we're in the hands of science. I don't agree it needs a vaccine, it needs better medicine perhaps, but that doesn't have to mean a vaccine. People need to stop dying in huge numbers, but without wanting to sound like SD, we deal and live with flu that kills. If we can get it under that type of control, I don't think it should be driving decisions. 

 

Finally, I think it depends on the firm's with regards incentives to getting people back. As I've said before, many just won't and they'll take jobs abroad. And they mightn't all do it in one hit, just as people move jobs, they won't refill roles here as it's a bedroom job, it allows them to advertise it globally to anyone who's willing to work the correct hours. But I do also think because a lot of life (work and otherwise) went on hold, some companies ability to survive might depend on the path they choose out of this crisis, things will and have to start moving again. So I do actually think there's incentive. And getting back in the office provides people with the platform to demonstrate the value of colaboration and being here - but I know lots of people are just happy to not have to commute and don't care long term as they just think it'll be alright. The real problem I see with large organisations is when given 2 options they normally pick the cheapest one on the spreadsheet unless their culture is really driven from CEO level, so their vision may be able to beat the numbers. I think that happens in very few large organisations these days and the spreadsheet nearly always wins, sometimes in contradiction to all common sense. 

That’s a big ‘it’ though, especially any time soon. Six months or a year from now then sure, this side of Christmas though I doubt it. And I think that argument has more credibility in relation to jobs that can’t be done at home. So for my dad and brother who work in a car factory it pretty much is a binary choice of go back to work or the job won’t exist anymore. For people wfh though I feel it’s different as you’re trying to sell them on taking a risk that they, and maybe their employers, don’t feel is necessary if they can do their job just as well away from the office. 
 

I think one of the best things places can do, and my work is doing this, is saying that anyone that does want to come back for whatever reasons - mental health, not enough space at home etc... - can do so. At the minute you’re going to get much more joy from getting people back voluntarily than you are trying to force them. And with social distancing in place you may get the maximum amount of people back you can fit in your workspace from volunteers. 

[Sugar Ape]

Actually the more I think about it, the chances of them sorting something like a rapid testing system anytime soon are virtually nil. 
 

Quote

 

As the UK government urges people to return to the office and schools reopen, England’s test-and-trace system was hit with fresh problems after there were delays in contacting nearly 2,000 people infected with coronavirus, and one in seven home tests failed to produce a result.

 

My colleague Josh Halliday reports that an internet outage meant nearly 3,000 more people than usual were transferred to the contact-tracing system after testing positive for Covid-19 in the week ending 19 August. Two-thirds of these people had been tested days or weeks earlier, meaning there was a delay in reaching them and their close contacts when they should have been self-isolating.
 

 

[Barrington Womble]

34 minutes ago, Sugar Ape said:

Actually the more I think about it, the chances of them sorting something like a rapid testing system anytime soon are virtually nil. 
 

There's no doubt test and trace is shit. There was something on the news of them having a saliva based test. It was being trialled somewhere on the south coast (maybe Southampton). That got test results in 20 mins. If that works. If obtaining the results is relatively easy (which a 20 mins results turn around would make you think it was), that could be deployed almost anywhere. 

 

The trace mechanism though needs the app. I've been in the pub plenty of times and very, very few ask you to provide tracing details. And it's not even a thing in shops. So even forgetting the government are a bit crap at actually tracing people they know about, there'll be thousands of contacts they'll never know about. 

 

For me it's going to hinge on fast testing and better treatment. 

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, Sugar Ape said:

That’s a big ‘it’ though, especially any time soon. Six months or a year from now then sure, this side of Christmas though I doubt it. And I think that argument has more credibility in relation to jobs that can’t be done at home. So for my dad and brother who work in a car factory it pretty much is a binary choice of go back to work or the job won’t exist anymore. For people wfh though I feel it’s different as you’re trying to sell them on taking a risk that they, and maybe their employers, don’t feel is necessary if they can do their job just as well away from the office. 
 

I think one of the best things places can do, and my work is doing this, is saying that anyone that does want to come back for whatever reasons - mental health, not enough space at home etc... - can do so. At the minute you’re going to get much more joy from getting people back voluntarily than you are trying to force them. And with social distancing in place you may get the maximum amount of people back you can fit in your workspace from volunteers. 

I could reply to that, but a bit like before I think we'd be covering old ground. I don't completely disagree with you though, ultimately I just think it's more important to our domestic economy than you do. 

[Sugar Ape]

Must admit the bit in bold from this Guardian article made me smile. Much like Littlejohn last night admitting he’s worked from home for 30 plus years but we should lose our jobs if we want to do the same, colour me shocked a firm that makes a living leasing office space isn’t keen on wfh. 

 

Also didn’t realise that was still the advice from the HSE. I’d say the government need to get that changed before running a campaign that it’s safe to go back the office.

 

 

 

Businesses are offering incentives such as free food, extra childcare and even executive parking spaces to coax staff back into the office but could fall foul of employment law if perks aren’t distributed fairly, according to experts.

 

While many companies and trade bodies have cautioned against putting pressure on staff to return, some firms have come up with offers for those that do so.

 

Bankers at Goldman Sachs’ London office have been given free takeaway breakfast and lunch, having previously had to pay for food.

 

Before the pandemic, they were entitled to 20 days of free childcare at an onsite creche, but can now claim an extra 10 days as they try to juggle childcare and work.

 

Rival bank JP Morgan built an internal smartphone app that allows senior bankers away on holiday to donate their parking spots at Canary Wharf, east London, to more junior staff willing to come into the office but worried about travelling on public transport.

 

The bank has also opened up the changing rooms at its pay-to-use gym for staff who want to change after cycling or jogging to work.

 

But employment lawyers said firms needed to be careful about ensuring they did not discriminate against staff who stayed at home, including those with disabilities.

 

“There is a risk in offering an incentive to someone who comes into the office and not to someone who doesn’t,” said Rustom Tata, an employment law expert and chairman of the City law firm DMH Stallard.

 

“If an employer is offering a policy such as free meals, they may have to consider whether they offer an equivalent benefit to someone who isn’t coming into the office for reasons to do with a disability.

 

“Administering all of that is a nightmare. You’re almost better off giving it to everybody or nobody.”

 

Several employment lawyers said firms should also check whether perks such as parking spaces or offers to fund congestion charge payments would be treated as a taxable benefit by HM Revenue & Customs.

 

Tata said: “The other thing they have to do is not appear to be placing undue pressure on the employee to come in, particularly if they haven’t properly done their risk assessment and consulted with employees as part of that.

 

“You can see some employers saying we’ll bung you a meal and hope you turn a blind eye to that.”

 

Despite the government’s push to convince people to come back to offices, David Wreford, a partner at global human resources firm Mercer, said most firms were focusing on helping staff who did not want to or could not return.

 

“I haven’t heard of a single company – and we’ve talked to a hell of a lot – who say it hasn’t worked,” he said, of people working from home. “I don’t think companies are in the mindset of hurrying people back to the office.”

 

Employees have also enjoyed working from home, with nine out of 10 keen to continue doing so, according to a survey of more than 20,000 people conducted by Cardiff and Southampton universities.

 

Workspace, a property firm that makes money by leasing office space, has been less keen on home working, telling staff to come to the office where possible.

 

A company spokesperson said staff who were unable to do so for health reasons could work remotely and flexible working patterns had been created.

 

But they added: “We have already seen the benefits of this return and believe the office fosters strong collaboration and a unified company culture.”

 

The Health and Safety Executive continues to advise that “everyone who can work from home should do so”.

[Dougie Do'ins]

7 hours ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

Things haven't been too bad recently, I'm mostly in the same seat, which is the one adjacent to my actual seat.

 

Am I weird if the idea of Perspex screens horrifies me? Everyone getting their knickers in a twist over the virus, but seemingly unworried by what we're losing in terms of human interaction. I don't want to live in a germ-free bubble like Howard Hughes or some immunodeficient child.

Think I've mentioned this before but our office looks like a maximum security prison at visiting time.

[johnsusername]

We've got glass screens between desks. It looks like Magneto's prison. 

 

Also, we're allowed to work back to back to people right behind us. 

 

Luckily I'm working from home almost totally. 

[johnsusername]

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lifts-coronavirus-logistics-return-to-office

 

The lifts in your high-rise office are a coronavirus nightmare

Companies have overhauled offices to make them Covid-proof. But they can't figure out how to stop a pile-up in the lift

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By NATASHA BERNAL

2 days ago

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The Washington Post / Getty Images

When it first opened its plush 10,000 sq ft headquarters in London last year, Goldman Sachs hoped that people would marvel at its state-of-the art facilities. The £1 billion office had it all: therapy rooms, nurseries, client offices, huge trading floors, and beds for dealmakers pulling 18-hour shifts. But the only thing people talked about was the investment bank’s excruciatingly slow lifts. When the doors closed on any of the 16 lifts in the lobby, people had to wait 20 seconds before they moved, and when they did, they went at snails’ pace.

Since last month, more of Goldman Sachs’ employees have started trickling back into the eight-storey building’s lifts. “They are not catastrophic at the moment mainly because there’s only 30 to 35 per cent of people in [the office],” says one insider. “Lifts are automatically going to specific floors with five people maximum in each.”

Another staffer claims that the lifts “went through an adjustment” when they were first installed and are now working fine.

Queues of people standing around waiting for elevators are a common sight in the lobbies of all sorts of offices; from PwC’s 10-storey building in Embankment, to News UK’s 17-storey offices in the mini Shard, or the 46-floor Heron Tower. But in the age of coronavirus, waiting for lifts isn’t just a mild inconvenience. It’s a logistical nightmare and a major health hazard. And unlike people at Goldman, most high-rise office workers can’t realistically climb up dozens of floors by using the stairs.

In the before times, even the most decrepit lift systems were designed so that 12 per cent of people working in an office can arrive in a five minute window, and that the entire population of a given office could get to their respective floors (if they queued together in the lobby) within around 40 minutes. More efficient lift systems can cut that wait time in half, and on paper, it should be even quicker if you factor in that only 50 per cent of the workforce can come back to the office at any given time.

But since the coronavirus pandemic, companies can’t ram a dozen people into each elevator to speed up the time it takes from the lobby to high floors. Bigger lifts can fit four people while still respecting social distancing, and smaller cabs are restricted to two. Most companies have put stickers on each corner to indicate where people can stand, sometimes requesting for them to face the wall while they travel. Even if companies figure out how to efficiently stagger people’s working days to avoid a pile-up at 9am or at 5.30pm, they have no solution to the worst time of the day for lifts: lunchtime.

If 50 per cent of people in an office that relies on lifts decide to take their lunch between 12 and 2pm, it would take up to two and a half hours to get everyone back in their seats again, says Julian Olley, director of vertical transportation at consultancy Arup. And that’s if everything goes according to plan.

“They will create a bottleneck,” he says. “In that two hour period people want to go and come back again. That is irrespective of big financial services [companies] having canteens.”

Older lift systems that stop at whichever floor they are called from are a logistical nightmare, he explains. In one 1970s building in Chicago, his modelling showed that lunchtime delays had a knock-on effect across the whole day. “We have yet to find a solution to get them out at lunch,” he admits. Companies have turned to old-fashioned sandwich trolleys and mini-canteens to stop people from clogging the lobby and to make them stay put in their allocated floors.

Logistics experts who are planning what a return to work looks like face a uniquely tedious maths problem: every building has a different shaped lobby, and different number of lifts that work at different speeds. There is no solution that works for everyone. For example, some lifts can travel at up to ten metres per second (but they will make your ears pop) while others can be far slower. Older buildings could be at 150 per cent capacity thanks to open space planning, skewing the ratio of lift to office workers. Large labyrinthian lobbies could delay people queuing up for lifts, while streamlined turnstiles can cause a pile-up. If lifts are programmed to open their doors at every floor, they are going to rack up wasted time compared to those who shuttle people non-stop.

One employee based in WeWork’s 16-story York Road office in Waterloo attempted to crunch the numbers himself and was not impressed. “So it’s six thousand people trying to get up and down in lifts that will now only take four ‘socially distanced, facing the wall’ people,” he says. “Suppose you have a 50 minute commute anyway, so 1 hour 40 and then you might be adding, what, 20 minutes to get up [to the office] twice a day minimum?”

Some lifts don’t even go to all of the floors of a building. One logistics expert points to Canary Wharf, which houses some of the tallest buildings in London, as a prime example of how complex internal building transport can be. “In one building they have lifts serving the lower floors, middle floors and higher floors. If someone junior at the bottom of a building has a meeting with someone senior at the top they allow 15 minutes for them to get there.”

So companies are faced with a dilemma: they’ve spent a lot of money kitting out their offices for social distancing, but have no foolproof plan to prepare for half of their workforce coming back. It’s foolhardy to count on people taking the stairs in a high-rise building, Arup data shows, because 90 per cent of people are unwilling to go up four floors of stairs (let alone 20 or 30). Modelling done by the consultancy shows people queuing, airport-style, in socially-distanced cordoned areas in the lobby and even on the street outside to stop people from standing in front of the lifts.

Once they are in the lift, they need people to avoid touching anything. Companies have heeded the warning signs from China, where a report demonstrated where a cluster of 70 coronavirus cases started with one asymptomatic person transmitting the virus to someone else via surfaces in a lift. None of the subsequent cases, however, involved the lift.

One office in 100 Bishopsgate has resorted to a drastic solution, according to Lee Daniels, global product manager of workplace and occupancy strategy at JLL. “People come into the lobby area where there's lots of signage and people managing the respective spaces, letting in the appropriate capacity in the buildings. And what they've got is a perspex divider in the lift cart itself so that two people can enter in an eight person lift.”

In other parts of the world such as Korea or Japan, cocktail sticks have been used to press buttons in more traditional lifts, he says. In other places where you can request a lift by selecting a floor on a touchpad outside in the lobby, companies have stationed someone to press the button for people walking in, or delegated the task to receptionists. Some lifts can even be summoned by an app on your phone.

This entire system hinges on people respecting the rules. However, once more office workers start returning to work, there will undoubtedly be those who jump into a lift regardless of guidelines or stickers. It’s likely that ‘destination’ lift systems, which do not stop between floors and can be reprogrammed to limit capacity to be socially distant, will become the norm, but those that don’t have that type of technology already aren’t rushing to install it.

Some UK firms are inspired by the logic from their German counterparts, who believe that socially distanced lifts are rather pointless if the majority of their employees have to use public transport to get to work in the first place. As long as they wear their masks and don’t crowd each other too much, lifts can withstand a higher-than-average occupancy rate. But this could be a dangerous approach.

Lara Goscé, research fellow in modelling at UCL, says that the same principle applies to lifts as to the tube or any other crowded and confined environment. “The more crowded the space, the higher the chance that an infected person transmits the virus,” she explains. “It has been proven that when breathing, particles travel up to one meter, (two meters when coughing, six when sneezing), so people should keep at least one meter distance between each other.

This would mean, for example, that if you consider a squared elevator of one meter per side, four people could fit in each of the corners – no more. “There is also speculation that Covid-19 particles can survive in the air for an unspecified amount of time so the safety distance alone is not enough, it won’t stop transmission caused by an infected individual who queued and took the elevator earlier,” Goscé says. “It should at least be compulsory for every person who queues and takes the lift to wear face coverings.”

[Dr Arthur De Sabre]

On 28/08/2020 at 05:21, Vincent Vega said:

If all these multinationals shift all their jobs abroad, how is anyone in this country going to buy the services they provide or the products they sell? 

Also there are massive issues around data sovereignty (at least there are over here in Aus) so in order to get overseas workers cleared you need higher and higher levels of security clearance for data access. Governments can limit the licensing of security clearances to ensure limited impact to local workforce.

I work for a big bank as a  consultant, what they are looking to do over the next few years is in source not outsource, they want to rebalance the level of workers away from contractors and 3rd parties back to predominantly bank staff, they have launched a massive new retraining program with Microsoft to train cloud developers. They already have pretty fucking cool internal training services and subscriptions. They are also committed to rebalancing the wfh ratio in favour is staff preferences.

anyone would suspect as a bank, they may have an idea that it’s important to keep your local population in employment, so that the bank continues to have customers. 
offshore the work, offshore the money, that may work for the UK, but it won’t last, it builds in its own redundancy by squeezing as much cash out of the country as possible - kind of shut despots tend to do, yet another example of the right eating everything in its path and shitting out bodies for fun.

[Sugar Ape]

I see Sikora, who isn’t a shady right wing campaigner of course, has come up with a good way to get employers to tell their workers to come back. 
 

 

[johnsusername]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/aug/30/independent-shops-enjoy-business-boost-due-to-commuting-drop

 

Independent shops enjoy business boost due to commuting drop

Independent retailers body says it will not be calling for workers to return to offices

[Dougie Do'ins]

BBC News - Capita to close over a third of offices permanently

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53968213

[Vincent Vega]

Second family.........fuck off. 
 

[Barrington Womble]

1 minute ago, Vincent Vega said:

Second family.........fuck off. 
 

And I'm not down with the kids, but isn't it bantz?

[Sugar Ape]

Reading that has just convinced me to spend two hours a day needlessly commuting and to spend hundreds of pounds a month on public transport and stuff I don’t need. Fucking clowns. 
 

They've probably paid one of Cummings ‘weirdos and misfits’ a fortune to come up with that. 

[cloggypop]

It should have the Samaritans helpline underneath. 

[Sugar Ape]

The more I look at that the worse it gets. 
 

Plastic plants? What?
 

Taking a lift? 

 

Accidentally replying-all? I mean, you don’t have to be in the office to do that you can do it from home. Which is the whole point I suppose because they’re keen to make out you aren’t actually working if you do your job from home and it only counts if you’re in the office. 

[Sugar Ape]

I don’t even know what’s real and what’s satire anymore.