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Manager Draft - Final


Guest Alex_K
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Manager Draft - Final  

10 members have voted

  1. 1. Manager Draft - Final



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In my opinion...

 

Buffon > Khan

Lahm > Tassotti

Hansen > Ferdinand 

Ayala > Hughes

Maldini > Cole

Keane > Pjanic

Callaghan > Vidal

Vieira > Seedorf

Gullit > Seedorf

Van Basten > Rush

Romario > Sheringham

 

To be honest, I don’t know much about Vidal other than that he looks a bit of a tit, so I’ve gone with Callaghan (Liverpool bias).

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Ardja's back 5 is superb. He gets that vote.

 

Alex takes the midfield 3 for me, Pjanic and Vidal are good pro's but i dont rate them higher than that. Similar for Callaghan, however, probably a bit of Liverpool bias there in mitigation.

 

Alex takes the from 3 comfortably. 

 

Alex gets my vote. Probably 1 goal in it.

 

Has Ardja tried to pick Sheringham in a few drafts now? Is he rated highly? I always thought he was decent but never top class.

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Guest Alex_K

Yeah I wasn't too thrilled about picking Callaghan. Think he was around 15th in "100 Players Who Shook the Kop" and won a lot with us but seems an all-energy player prized more for longevity than singular ability. Anyone able to give more info?

 

On a sort of related point its interesting that we went 6 years in between league titles under Shankly, where we basically won nothing at all between mid 60s-early70s after the successes of the early 60s.

 

I think Tony's view is pretty spot on. Arguably you could split the centre backs though; I think Hansen>Ferdinand>Ayala>Hughes is probably how I'd view that but that's just my assumption that Hughes wasn't really a specialist centre back as much as the other 3.

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32 minutes ago, Alex_K said:

Yeah I wasn't too thrilled about picking Callaghan. Think he was around 15th in "100 Players Who Shook the Kop" and won a lot with us but seems an all-energy player prized more for longevity than singular ability. Anyone able to give more info?

 

On a sort of related point its interesting that we went 6 years in between league titles under Shankly, where we basically won nothing at all between mid 60s-early70s after the successes of the early 60s.

 

I think Tony's view is pretty spot on. Arguably you could split the centre backs though; I think Hansen>Ferdinand>Ayala>Hughes is probably how I'd view that but that's just my assumption that Hughes wasn't really a specialist centre back as much as the other 3.

"Because he's a consistent performer, thats why he isn't out!. A model player, a model man" - Shankly on Callaghan 

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I never watched some of the older players, some of these are guesses, so happy to be corrected.

 

FW: Van Basten > Rush = Romario > Sheringham

AM: Gullit = Totti

CMs: Vieira = Seedorf > Vidal > Callaghan

DM: Keane > Pjanic

LB: Maldini > Cole

RB: Lahm > Tassotti

CHs: Hansen > Rio > Hughes > Ayala

GK: Buffon = Kahn

 

I think I lost it with my Sheringham pick. I did like him as a footballler; clever and tidy. A bit like Bobby Firmino without the work rate. I don’t think I could’ve picked anyone else from the Clough pool to turn it around though. A real shallow pool that one, underlines what a fantastic job he did to win the European Cups.

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21 minutes ago, aRdja said:

I never watched some of the older players, some of these are guesses, so happy to be corrected.

 

FW: Van Basten > Rush = Romario > Sheringham

AM: Gullit = Totti

CMs: Vieira = Seedorf > Vidal > Callaghan

DM: Keane > Pjanic

LB: Maldini > Cole

RB: Lahm > Tassotti

CHs: Hansen > Rio > Hughes > Ayala

GK: Buffon = Kahn

 

I think I lost it with my Sheringham pick. I did like him as a footballler; clever and tidy. A bit like Bobby Firmino without the work rate. I don’t think I could’ve picked anyone else from the Clough pool to turn it around though. A real shallow pool that one, underlines what a fantastic job he did to win the European Cups.

You lost it with Pjanic. You could have had superman and Margot Robbie in Wolf of Wall St up-front and it wasn't beating his. I think Sheringham was really fucking good and him and Rush would have been unreal. 

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Guest Alex_K

I would put Gullitt tidily above Totti. I think Seedorf and Viera are pretty tied; Seedorf won a lot more at club level. Would put Buffon above Khan. I’d say Pjanic, Callaghan, Sheringham are the respective weakest 3 in their position: I mean Sheringham was alright, but don’t forget he was always behind Cole/Yorke in the United pecking order. A good domestic striker who had an exceptionally long career.

Shilton & Van Breukolon were great Clough picks (I’ve slaughtered the latter’s name). 

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5 minutes ago, Bjornebye said:

You lost it with Pjanic. You could have had superman and Margot Robbie in Wolf of Wall St up-front and it wasn't beating his. I think Sheringham was really fucking good and him and Rush would have been unreal. 

Pjanic is a great player IMO. I needed a playmaker in that midfield, to complement the muscles... I considered setting it up 4-4-2 and play Gullit on the right, but I thought I’d play him in his best position... 

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4 minutes ago, Alex_K said:

I would put Gullitt tidily above Totti. I think Seedorf and Viera are pretty tied; Seedorf won a lot more at club level. Would put Buffon above Khan. I’d say Pjanic, Callaghan, Sheringham are the respective weakest 3 in their position: I mean Sheringham was alright, but don’t forget he was always behind Cole/Yorke in the United pecking order. A good domestic striker who had an exceptionally long career.

I’m a big fan of Totti, and never really watched Gullit other than when he was playing for Chelsea.

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Guest Alex_K
11 minutes ago, aRdja said:

I’m a big fan of Totti, and never really watched Gullit other than when he was playing for Chelsea.

Yeah our thoughts probably differ - I think Totti was always a big fish/ small pond type of player who flattered to deceive on grandest stage, sort of opposite of my perception of Gullitt. Could be unfair. My enduring memories of Totti’s Roma was them just being smashed all over the shop whenever they played a decent side other than Capello’s tenure there 

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Guest Alex_K

just saw that George Weah is President of Liberia now, so there’s that.

Watched some more clips of him during this game; looks like there’s a lot of his style of play in Mane 

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29 minutes ago, Alex_K said:

I would put Gullitt tidily above Totti. I think Seedorf and Viera are pretty tied; Seedorf won a lot more at club level. Would put Buffon above Khan. I’d say Pjanic, Callaghan, Sheringham are the respective weakest 3 in their position: I mean Sheringham was alright, but don’t forget he was always behind Cole/Yorke in the United pecking order. A good domestic striker who had an exceptionally long career.

Shilton & Van Breukolon were great Clough picks (I’ve slaughtered the latter’s name). 

Buffon was better than Khan, and by some distance. 

 

My Dad, a match going red since the fifties, had this to say about Callaghan.

 

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Guest Alex_K

Henderson is the one who Callaghans style most obviously seemed to resemble in write ups — become a decent midfielder though has Henderson. Will be interesting to see where some of this batch come in future “100 players who shook the kop” etc 

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Does make Callaghan sound like Hendo. Don’t take this the wrong way Tone, not having a go at your dad. I honestly believe Hendo is so underrated by our fans. Hendo has 50 more caps to his name compared to Callaghan, I also fully accept that caps alone don’t tell the full story. I did consider Callaghan but his low caps turned me off. 

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Guest Alex_K

I’d be more turned off by him having been more

of an accessory than a central tenet to any of our great teams. National caps back then didn’t always tell the story. There are some great players who weirdly have next to no caps 

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14 minutes ago, aRdja said:

Does make Callaghan sound like Hendo. Don’t take this the wrong way Tone, not having a go at your dad. I honestly believe Hendo is so underrated by our fans. Hendo has 50 more caps to his name compared to Callaghan, I also fully accept that caps alone don’t tell the full story. I did consider Callaghan but his low caps turned me off. 

My dad has been a fan of Henderson for years, mate.

 

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13 minutes ago, Alex_K said:

I’d be more turned off by him having been more

of an accessory than a central tenet to any of our great teams. National caps back then didn’t always tell the story. There are some great players who weirdly have next to no caps 

Including a number of bonafide Liverpool legends.

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49 minutes ago, aRdja said:

Does make Callaghan sound like Hendo. Don’t take this the wrong way Tone, not having a go at your dad. I honestly believe Hendo is so underrated by our fans. Hendo has 50 more caps to his name compared to Callaghan, I also fully accept that caps alone don’t tell the full story. I did consider Callaghan but his low caps turned me off. 

Yeah I’ve mentioned the international caps to you before in another draft, see below. I think you can be too quick to judge older players on modern values for example whether they succeeded in Europe (if they’re South American) or what they achieved in their career, but the game was very, very different back then and you’ve got to take that into account. In addition to the international caps:

On 18/07/2019 at 22:45, Sugar Ape said:

 

Lloyd also won the league with forest and back-to-back European cups. 

 

International caps are a bit misleading in the 60s, 70s and 80s as a way to judge a player imo. For various reasons loads of excellent players didn’t get capped often for their countries. Scotland especially didn’t like picking players who played in England. 

 

Ron Yeats only got two caps for them, Tommy Lawrence three caps and Nicol and Hansen around 25 caps each. 

 

Alan Kennedy only got two caps for England, Tommy Smith one cap and Ian Callaghan four caps. These are some of the best players in our history. I’m not sure why they didn’t get picked more for the National team to be honest. 

 

I bet you've never heard of Mick Mills but he got 42 caps for England and captained them in the ‘82 World Cup. You didn’t have to play for the best clubs to get capped in those days I guess.   

 

 

I’d also say that absolute world class players often played for unsuccessful and unfashionable clubs for their whole career or at least most of it. Look at Bobby Moore. A top five centre back of all time by anyone’s standard. Still playing in the top flight until the mid 70s and, domestically, won an FA cup and a cup winners cup in his whole career. Nowadays he’d be at City or Utd by the time he was 21. 
 

Then look at the likes of Zico and Socrates. Two of the best midfielders of the 70s/80s. Absolutely iconic. Zico had a couple of years at Udinese and won fuck all. Socrates a year at Fiorentina where he also won nothing. Apart from that they played their prime in Brazil. Same even with Romario who you mentioned in another thread because you don’t think he did enough in Europe, if he came through now he’d spend his whole career in Europe because the money would be too great for him not to. Up until probably the mid 90s it was a different world though. 
 

Cafu who is widely acknowledged as one of the greatest right backs of all time only moved to Europe when he was 25, played a handful of games for Zaragoza, back to Brazil and then didn’t start his European career properly at Roma until he was 27!
 

In the 80s you had Nottingham Forest, Aston Villa, PSV, Porto and Benfica all getting to European cup finals. Steaua Bucharest got to two European cup finals! Never happen in a million years nowadays. 
 

Even the Balon d’Or kicked up some weird results. It’s a difficult thing to judge the players of that era against modern era players. 

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Another example off the top of my head is Le Tissier. In a six season run in the top flight he scored 20, 19, 6, 15, 25 and 20 league goals. Unbelievable. Fuck loyalty to Southampton if he was here now they’d just throw money at him until he said yes he’d move and Southampton would be trying their best to sell him.

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This isn't really relevant to the discussion but the above posts reminded me of something I saw the other day that kind of blew my mind a little bit. Ian Wright was a month away from turning 28 when he signed for Arsenal, yet he's second in their all-time leading goalscorer list. 

 

Can't believe ARdja is having a pop at Tony's da either. No need for that. 

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11 hours ago, aRdja said:

Pjanic is a great player IMO. I needed a playmaker in that midfield, to complement the muscles... I considered setting it up 4-4-2 and play Gullit on the right, but I thought I’d play him in his best position... 

Gullit on the right? Who are you..Sugar Ape? 

 

Cant believe you have just tried to correct Tonys dad who actually watched Callaghan play. Jesus wept. 

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