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Thiago Alcantara

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21 hours ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

Thiago is a top top player. The end.

It's not the end though. I don't watch Barcelona or Bayern Munich games so I've never seen him be a top top player. He was underwhelming all last season until the last few games, where he played his part in our winning run & that was about it.

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44 minutes ago, Mook said:

It's not the end though. I don't watch Barcelona or Bayern Munich games so I've never seen him be a top top player. He was underwhelming all last season until the last few games, where he played his part in our winning run & that was about it.

Spot on

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1 hour ago, Mook said:

It's not the end though. I don't watch Barcelona or Bayern Munich games so I've never seen him be a top top player. He was underwhelming all last season until the last few games, where he played his part in our winning run & that was about it.

Was one of if not the best midfielder the year before, started off being assaulted at Everton which never helped. Think people failed to understand his role and he struggled at times admittedly. We have not seen his best but as you say you and others never saw him at Barcelona or Bayern and those calling him shit are frankly  way off mate. You not watch him in the CL?

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12 hours ago, m0e said:

I'll dig out the posts I made about Thiago if you really want me to. I was a big fan of his even when he wasn't playing 'well' for us.

 

But I agree we haven't seen it for long enough yet.

 

I think our system is fucked without Fabinho, and only partially where it should be when Hendo plays the 6.

 

For me, without Alisson, VVD, Fabinho down the spine, we're not winning anything.

So I certainly agree with your last paragraph. I thought it was interesting klopps comments the other day about Trent when he talked if he could/should play midfield. I always think he'd be one of the 8s if that happened, but klopp seemed pretty clear he would be the 6. 

 

Where thiago is concerned one of my big issues is I don't actually see how he works in our system. He certainly can't play the 6, he was pretty terrible there. And I'm not sure he has the mobility (perhaps agility is a better word) to fill one of the 8 roles for us. There were a lot of people saying when he was in either of those roles last season, his form was due to us not playing him in the correct position. So what is his position? Do we play with that position in our team or are we going to need to change how we pay to accommodate him? The bottom line is he provided more questions than answers with his form last season. It doesn't mean he isn't a good player, lots of really good players don't fit in certain teams or certain leagues. What I'm certain of, if he contributes this season what he contributed last, I think we'll all be disappointed. 

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8 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

So I certainly agree with your last paragraph. I thought it was interesting klopps comments the other day about Trent when he talked if he could/should play midfield. I always think he'd be one of the 8s if that happened, but klopp seemed pretty clear he would be the 6. 

 

Where thiago is concerned one of my big issues is I don't actually see how he works in our system. He certainly can't play the 6, he was pretty terrible there. And I'm not sure he has the mobility (perhaps agility is a better word) to fill one of the 8 roles for us. There were a lot of people saying when he was in either of those roles last season, his form was due to us not playing him in the correct position. So what is his position? Do we play with that position in our team or are we going to need to change how we pay to accommodate him? The bottom line is he provided more questions than answers with his form last season. It doesn't mean he isn't a good player, lots of really good players don't fit in certain teams or certain leagues. What I'm certain of, if he contributes this season what he contributed last, I think we'll all be disappointed. 

The system thing is probably correct Barry. I cannot have people saying he is shit though, it’s just wrong. I know you didn’t by the way.

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1 hour ago, Mook said:

It's not the end though. I don't watch Barcelona or Bayern Munich games so I've never seen him be a top top player. He was underwhelming all last season until the last few games, where he played his part in our winning run & that was about it.

Played a part is underselling it IMO. He was our best midfielder in the run home. He stepped up when Fabinho was faltering. 

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3 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

The system thing is probably correct Barry. I cannot have people saying he is shit though, it’s just wrong. I know you didn’t by the way.

I think he's been pretty shit for us to be honest! (Again doesn't mean he is shit) No doubt his form improved at the end of the season, when pretty much everyone played their part, but I thought he was pretty poor prior to Easter (and the lad himself has acknowledged this). I've said all through this I realise that doesn't make him a shit player, but he hasn't shown he's a top class player in Liverpool shirt, or certainly shown that anywhere near often enough.

 

That might be as much down to our system as him, but if he is so specific he can't find a role in that midfield, he's the wrong player for us. Part of our success has been the tactical flexibility of our players. Henderson, milner, Gini have all played 6 & 8s to pretty decent levels and often playing roles that don't exactly suit them - fab is a specialist 6, but he's done well at centre back and we know from his history he can play RB too. The same is true of the forwards, firmino has transitioned to this false 9, mane played right then moved left and drifts centrally, Salah has been right and through the middle while Jota as been pretty effective even if he plays left or centre. Coutinho before that was the same, playing left forward and left 8. The players that haven't been able to do that have generally not succeeded here - origi, shaq, keita, Chamberlain, lallana spring to mind. I realise injury has played a part with some of those players, but they've never done enough in their supposed best position with Chamberlain maybe an exception in the 3 months before his big injury. For me, thiago needs to find a way to demonstrate his ability in one of those 8 positions pretty quickly or I expect him not to take part in most of our big games this season. He's had a year, it's time for him to live up to his reputation. 

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7 minutes ago, aRdja said:

Played a part is underselling it IMO. He was our best midfielder in the run home. He stepped up when Fabinho was faltering. 

You’re right with the first bit mate not so sure about the last.

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Even not at his best, struggling with a jumbled team where most players in it were out form and with a season where most things that could go wrong did, he was our best ball winner and basically the most progressive passer in the league. There is no reason for pessimism at all. 

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1 minute ago, Barrington Womble said:

I think he's been pretty shit for us to be honest! (Again doesn't mean he is shit) No doubt his form improved at the end of the season, when pretty much everyone played their part, but I thought he was pretty poor prior to Easter (and the lad himself has acknowledged this). I've said all through this I realise that doesn't make him a shit player, but he hasn't shown he's a top class player in Liverpool shirt, or certainly shown that anywhere near often enough.

 

That might be as much down to our system as him, but if he is so specific he can't find a role in that midfield, he's the wrong player for us. Part of our success has been the tactical flexibility of our players. Henderson, milner, Gini have all played 6 & 8s to pretty decent levels and often playing roles that don't exactly suit them - fab is a specialist 6, but he's done well at centre back and we know from his history he can play RB too. The same is true of the forwards, firmino has transitioned to this false 9, mane played right then moved left and drifts centrally, Salah has been right and through the middle while Jota as been pretty effective even if he plays left or centre. Coutinho before that was the same, playing left forward and left 8. The players that haven't been able to do that have generally not succeeded here - origi, shaq, keita, Chamberlain, lallana spring to mind. I realise injury has played a part with some of those players, but they've never done enough in their supposed best position with Chamberlain maybe an exception in the 3 months before his big injury. For me, thiago needs to find a way to demonstrate his ability in one of those 8 positions pretty quickly or I expect him not to take part in most of our big games this season. He's had a year, it's time for him to live up to his reputation. 

He has played in twos and threes in midfield I’ve rather years in my opinion in the two in 4231 would be his best for us, but what do I know. 

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50 minutes ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

Was one of if not the best midfielder the year before, started off being assaulted at Everton which never helped. Think people failed to understand his role and he struggled at times admittedly. We have not seen his best but as you say you and others never saw him at Barcelona or Bayern and those calling him shit are frankly  way off mate. You not watch him in the CL?

I don't really watch any Football other than Liverpool games tbh.

 

I think my opinion on him is pretty objective based on his time at Anfield, I was excited when we signed him due to the reasons you mention but just haven't seen what the hype was about & would love nothing more than for him to have a great season this season.

 

As usual on Football forums, opinions tend to get over egged, he hasn't been shite or amazing but I think 'underwhelming' is a fair assessment of his time here so far.

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1 minute ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

He has played in twos and threes in midfield I’ve rather years in my opinion in the two in 4231 would be his best for us, but what do I know. 

Maybe we will transition to that type of formation. Klopp hasn't show much indication that's on the agenda, even through preseason we were pretty rigid with 433 when I watched. The closest I've seen to any change was the shape we played v Chelsea and to some extent Burnley. Elliot certainly had less defensive duties than a normal 8 for us and especially against Chelsea he spent a lot of time wide right, allowing Salah or Trent to do bits inside - and Henderson (or keita v Burnley) needing to do more defensive (and central to right) work than we'd see in or normally pretty symmetrical 1&2 midfield. I think that's more to do with making life easier for Elliot than any tactical shift, but I guess we'll see in this coming spell between now and the next international break where we have plenty of games and you would expect all the midfielders to get minutes on the pitch. 

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27 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Maybe we will transition to that type of formation. Klopp hasn't show much indication that's on the agenda, even through preseason we were pretty rigid with 433 when I watched. The closest I've seen to any change was the shape we played v Chelsea and to some extent Burnley. Elliot certainly had less defensive duties than a normal 8 for us and especially against Chelsea he spent a lot of time wide right, allowing Salah or Trent to do bits inside - and Henderson (or keita v Burnley) needing to do more defensive (and central to right) work than we'd see in or normally pretty symmetrical 1&2 midfield. I think that's more to do with making life easier for Elliot than any tactical shift, but I guess we'll see in this coming spell between now and the next international break where we have plenty of games and you would expect all the midfielders to get minutes on the pitch. 

We could the two and a diamond?

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Thiago is only as good as what the options around him are. 

He can't really force anything like a Gerrard, not his game. 

He's a bit like Pogba in that respect.  He is the switchboard operator in a high performing team. 

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1 hour ago, VERBAL DIARRHEA said:

We could the two and a diamond?

I think there's lots of things we could do. We'd need to think who'd be a 9 in any formation that plays a 10 though. My expectations are we'll stick to 433 more often than not and just make very tiny tweaks to that 433 structure (like the Chelsea game). I think it's been a hallmark of klopps time here. Nearly always sticking to one formation, but makes it different with just balancing that 433 a little different, with a lot of that being dictated from Salah's starting position since he's been at the club. 

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1 hour ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

Thiago is only as good as what the options around him are. 

He can't really force anything like a Gerrard, not his game. 

He's a bit like Pogba in that respect.  He is the switchboard operator in a high performing team. 

So are you suggesting if we aren't firing on all cylinders we just shouldn't play him? Again, I struggle to see how that fits with us, even at our peak when we won nearly every match, we often struggled and it was pure willpower and determination to find a way to win that eventually got us over the line. If he's in the mold of pogba, he won't be a top performer for us. We thrive on having a team that has 11 performers at 7 or 8 out of 10 every week. While it's nice to get a 9 or 10, it's not our difference maker. Our difference maker is we rarely have players who perform badly. Which was our big issue between Christmas and Easter, too little balance to the team, combined with too many players just not playing very well. 

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Remember watching him in awe the first few times he played for us, it was like seeing that extra bit of class and guile that our midfielders didn't. But in the main he hasn't been as good as I hoped/expected. But he needs to be trusted more by Klopp and be made a fixture in the side, he undoubtedly has the ability.

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14 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I think there's lots of things we could do. We'd need to think who'd be a 9 in any formation that plays a 10 though. My expectations are we'll stick to 433 more often than not and just make very tiny tweaks to that 433 structure (like the Chelsea game). I think it's been a hallmark of klopps time here. Nearly always sticking to one formation, but makes it different with just balancing that 433 a little different, with a lot of that being dictated from Salah's starting position since he's been at the club. 

Through the middle it would be Jota for me currently leave Mo where he is. Firmino and Mane need to up their game or they will be in danger from Elliot or Gordon as we have no one else do we. Mad to say that about Mane like.

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5 hours ago, Mook said:

It's not the end though. I don't watch Barcelona or Bayern Munich games so I've never seen him be a top top player. He was underwhelming all last season until the last few games, where he played his part in our winning run & that was about it.

He can’t be a top player because you’ve not watched him when he was a top player? Makes sense …… 

 

He’s boss 

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2 hours ago, Bjornebye said:

He can’t be a top player because you’ve not watched him when he was a top player? Makes sense …… 

 

He’s boss 

VD said he 'is a 'top top player, the end.'

 

I pointed out that isn't entirely correct. Now you're saying he WAS a top player, which only backs up my point.

 

Anyway, he looked good today apart from dicking about with the ball & letting Bamford have a pop so onwards & upwards hopefully.

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6 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

Even not at his best, struggling with a jumbled team where most players in it were out form and with a season where most things that could go wrong did, he was our best ball winner and basically the most progressive passer in the league. There is no reason for pessimism at all. 


This.

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2 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

Ball retention and range of passing were off the charts today - combine that with winning the most tackles and...

Aside from the obvious chance he gave them of course.

 

I thought he was decent today otherwise, although I can probably say that about everyone but mane who was very wasteful and fabinho who's reading of the game was absolutely world class and he was comfortably my mom

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