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Thiago Alcantara

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8 minutes ago, aRdja said:

I mean it’s all good you saying that and it sounds very firm and strong and all, but players miss games because of injuries all the time. Thiago played injured at the end of last season and he carried our midfield across the finish line, as a result he wasn’t fit enough for the Euros and this season. 

He didn't carry our midfield. It's fucking mental to suggest it, he had a few games where he wasn't ordinary to poor and about time too considering what he'd contributed prior. As for the rest, we'll have to agree to disagree again just for a change. He's the club asset (not country), if we think he's fit enough to play, he should play. And then when the season is over, its on his responsibility to his employers, who will be continuing to pay him a king's ransom for 2 months while he's not at the club, to ensure he's at least fit for the current season. It's been a recurring thing for as long as I've watched football. Some players limp over the line at the end of the season, then are unavailable for their country while they get fit for the next season, be that rest or operations that have been delayed. 

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30 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

He didn't carry our midfield. It's fucking mental to suggest it, he had a few games where he wasn't ordinary to poor and about time too considering what he'd contributed prior. As for the rest, we'll have to agree to disagree again just for a change. He's the club asset (not country), if we think he's fit enough to play, he should play. And then when the season is over, its on his responsibility to his employers, who will be continuing to pay him a king's ransom for 2 months while he's not at the club, to ensure he's at least fit for the current season. It's been a recurring thing for as long as I've watched football. Some players limp over the line at the end of the season, then are unavailable for their country while they get fit for the next season, be that rest or operations that have been delayed. 

He did Barry. Fabinho was very poor in the last few games, and Thiago was by some distance our best midfielder.  Go read back the match threads. 
 

I don’t care too much about international football, but footballers love playing for their countries especially in big tournaments… and if you build a reputation for banning players from participating, you’re making their choice a touch easier when both Liverpool and Man City come calling for example. We’ve always accommodated for players coming back underdone though. This is nothing new. Fabinho didn’t start until the Chelsea game for example and he clearly looked unfit, as he wasn’t very good.

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Just now, aRdja said:

He did Barry. Fabinho was very poor in the last few games, and Thiago was by some distance our best midfielder.  Go read back the match threads. 
 

I don’t care too much about international football, but footballers love playing for their countries especially in big tournaments… and if you build a reputation for banning players from participating, you’re making their choice a touch easier when both Liverpool and Man City come calling for example. We’ve always accommodated for players coming back underdone though… Fabinho didn’t start until the Chelsea game for example and he clearly looked unfit, as he wasn’t very good.

As I say, agree to disagree. We won't agree on it. But I think we see football quite differently. Like the whole Bamford thing..I can't think of many premier League forwards who don't play for Burnley who would be less suitable for us than Bamford. But you like him, it's fair enough. Same with thiago. I just think he's been style over substance since he got here. Maybe his whole career has been this, I've not watched him enough. But it's what I've observed here. He was above ordinary imo for about 3 of the last 5 games. He wasn't our best player in any of them. It's ok you don't agree. 

 

I do agree players want to play international football. When everyone was wetting their pants that vvd might go to the euros, I said many times on here he should go if he's fit to play. But he wasn't quite ready, so he didn't go and he acted professionally - I bet though if he'd been 6 weeks ahead and we'd have been in a CL final, he'd have played. Henderson has had a similar decision to make. He went away, no issues, he got fit on England time, got some minutes and has returned ready for us. It's really ok for them to play internationals, but it should never to be at the expense of the club. And before you mention "players get injured at any time". That's a risk we have to take. We don't need to plan for lack of fitness though. 

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12 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

As I say, agree to disagree. We won't agree on it. But I think we see football quite differently. Like the whole Bamford thing..I can't think of many premier League forwards who don't play for Burnley who would be less suitable for us than Bamford. But you like him, it's fair enough. Same with thiago. I just think he's been style over substance since he got here. Maybe his whole career has been this, I've not watched him enough. But it's what I've observed here. He was above ordinary imo for about 3 of the last 5 games. He wasn't our best player in any of them. It's ok you don't agree. 

 

I do agree players want to play international football. When everyone was wetting their pants that vvd might go to the euros, I said many times on here he should go if he's fit to play. But he wasn't quite ready, so he didn't go and he acted professionally - I bet though if he'd been 6 weeks ahead and we'd have been in a CL final, he'd have played. Henderson has had a similar decision to make. He went away, no issues, he got fit on England time, got some minutes and has returned ready for us. It's really ok for them to play internationals, but it should never to be at the expense of the club. And before you mention "players get injured at any time". That's a risk we have to take. We don't need to plan for lack of fitness though. 

I would’ve thought Bamford’s quality was obvious. Last season he scored double amount of goals our number 9 did, and made the same number of assists. We reportedly made a move for him but he wanted to stay,,, after reading Klopp’s glowing comments about him this week, there’s very little doubt that there’s some truth in it.

 

With regards to the back end of the season, don’t think there’s much to disagree on… I’m sure you read back your own comments you would’ve probably said that Thiago was our best midfielder at the time too. 


Players do miss the start of the season all the time due to international football. Bobby and Fabinho didn’t start the first couple of games this season for example. Would Bobby have still got injured against Chelsea if didn’t go to Copa America? Who know… It’s not ideal but it is what it is.

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1 minute ago, aRdja said:

I would’ve thought Bamford’s quality was obvious. Last season he scored double amount of goals our number 9 did, and made the same number of assists. We reportedly made a move for him but he wanted to stay,,, after reading Klopp’s glowing comments about him this week, there’s very little doubt that there’s some truth in it.

 

With regards to the back end of the season, don’t think there’s much to disagree on… I’m sure you read back your own comments you would’ve probably said that Thiago was our best midfielder too. 


Players do miss the start of the season all the time due to international football. Bobby and Fabinho didn’t start this season for example. Not ideal but it is what it is.

Lets not get back into Bamford. We've covered it. 

 

I didn't say he was our best player. I do recall being genuinely surprises he wasn't poor sometimes. 

 

Bobby and fabinho came back fit. That's just the rules. Not that I agree with those rules either, but they are what they are till we get something else. But they didn't go away injured. Stay injured. Then want more time off to get over their injury. 

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Just now, Barrington Womble said:

Lets not get back into Bamford. We've covered it. 

 

I didn't say he was our best player. I do recall being genuinely surprises he wasn't poor sometimes. 

 

Bobby and fabinho came back fit. That's just the rules. Not that I agree with those rules either, but they are what they are till we get something else. But they didn't go away injured. Stay injured. Then want more time off to get over their injury. 

You brought Bamford up this time Barry not me. He was clearly our best midfielder at the back end of last season, there isn’t much to debate or argue here unfort.

 

I don’t think either Bobby or Fabinho came back close to being fit. Bobby pulled a muscle a few minutes into his first start of the season, and Fabinho looked real underdone against Chelsea.

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1 minute ago, lifetime fan said:

Where was it reported we made a move for Bamford? 

Goal yesterday. It said something like "our interest was real, but didn't last long because Bamford wanted to stay at Leeds instead of being 5th choice striker at Liverpool". Which tells you everything you need to know about Bamford if it's true - any striker who wouldn't fancy getting passed Bobby after his form of the last 2 years and would consider himself 5th choice, then they're not of the right mental stuff for this club. Personally I would be very surprised if we had any interest in bamford unless he was in his last 12 months and we saw him as a chance to make a few quid. 

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4 minutes ago, lifetime fan said:

Where was it reported we made a move for Bamford? 

 

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Just now, aRdja said:

You brought Bamford up this time Barry not me. He was clearly our best midfielder at the back end of last season, there isn’t much to debate or argue here unfort.

 

I don’t think either Bobby or Fabinho came back close to being fit. Bobby pulled a muscle a few minutes into his first start of the season, and Fabinho looked real underdone against Chelsea.

I know I brought him up, purely to illustrate we see football differently and it's ok for us to see it differently. 

 

They came back as fit as you can when returning from an international tournament that finished 3 weeks before. They weren't injured. Bobby has since got injured and that might be because he didn't rest enough. It might be because we rushed him back to the play. It might just be one of those things. What it wasn't was an injury from last season that needed rest that he didn't have time to take because he chose to sit on the bench for his country. 

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6 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I know I brought him up, purely to illustrate we see football differently and it's ok for us to see it differently. 

 

They came back as fit as you can when returning from an international tournament that finished 3 weeks before. They weren't injured. Bobby has since got injured and that might be because he didn't rest enough. It might be because we rushed him back to the play. It might just be one of those things. What it wasn't was an injury from last season that needed rest that he didn't have time to take because he chose to sit on the bench for his country. 

You’ve brought him up in a number unrelated discussions though Barry. This wasn’t the first time. Don’t think it’s fair for you to bring up Bamford and then ask me not to discuss further.
 

They clearly didn’t come back fit enough to start the season for us. Thiago made an appearance this season before Fabinho just FYI. 

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1 minute ago, El Rojo said:

The Bambino would give us something different, but I think Bobby’s going to surprise a few doubters this season. 

Hope you’re right. I can’t see it. He hasn’t been good since the injury he suffered prior to the CL final. 

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Just now, aRdja said:

You’ve brought him up in a number unrelated discussions though Barry. This wasn’t the first time. Don’t think it’s fair for you to bring him up and ask me not to provide a response. 
 

They clearly didn’t come back fit enough to start the season for us. Thiago made an appearance this season before Fabinho just FYI. 

It isn't the 1st time I brought it up. Because I genuinely can't believe anyone who watches Liverpool can think he would offer us anything. Your admiration for Bamford and desire to see him in a red shirt is an absolute illustration of the different lenses we watch football through. 

 

I know when they all played. I think we need to define fit. Very few players come back match fit after their holidays and neither should they. They need to rest. The club gives every single player a fitness plan for them to keep to between their last day of football activity and their 1st day of training. However that has absolutely nothing to do with being injured. Thiago was carrying an injury that would be cured with rest. He chose to represent his country, which reduced his ability to rest and recover. The situations are entirely different. The ones to compare him with are the players who finished last season with injuries. 2 examples. 1 went away on international duty and 1 didn't. However both weren't injured because of their decision. Thiago returned to 21/22 with the same injury he left us in 20/21. Personally I don't think that is acceptable. If you can provide a comparative example to that, I'm sure I'll have the same.point of view. Get the injury cured before fucking off on international duty. 

 

Sorry if there's typos...no time.to read back, got to dash..

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17 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

It isn't the 1st time I brought it up. Because I genuinely can't believe anyone who watches Liverpool can think he would offer us anything. Your admiration for Bamford and desire to see him in a red shirt is an absolute illustration of the different lenses we watch football through. 

 

I know when they all played. I think we need to define fit. Very few players come back match fit after their holidays and neither should they. They need to rest. The club gives every single player a fitness plan for them to keep to between their last day of football activity and their 1st day of training. However that has absolutely nothing to do with being injured. Thiago was carrying an injury that would be cured with rest. He chose to represent his country, which reduced his ability to rest and recover. The situations are entirely different. The ones to compare him with are the players who finished last season with injuries. 2 examples. 1 went away on international duty and 1 didn't. However both weren't injured because of their decision. Thiago returned to 21/22 with the same injury he left us in 20/21. Personally I don't think that is acceptable. If you can provide a comparative example to that, I'm sure I'll have the same.point of view. Get the injury cured before fucking off on international duty. 

 

Sorry if there's typos...no time.to read back, got to dash..

I’m always happy to discuss Bamford, but just found it a bit odd when you asked to me stop discussing a player you yourself brought up. If you don’t want to discuss Patrick Bamford, surely the easiest and most obvious way is to not bring him up in an unrelated discussion?

 

Bamford had an excellent season last year. Even Jurgen Klopp and Ousmane Dembele are huge fans. I have noticed that this forum in general has this weird attitude towards English players, I don’t really get it, but I’ve come to accept it. 
 

Back to Thiago, the situations are as different or similar as you (one) make it really. Thiago played with an injury for us, and then he went to the Euros and played a bit-part role as a result, and came back not fit enough to start the season. Fabinho and Firmino also came back not fit enough to start the season, Bobby pulled a muscle a few minutes into his first start FFS, Thiago also made an appearance before Fabinho.

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3 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

He should play for us with if we want him to. He's our player, we pay him almost a million quid a month. And then when the season finishes his 1st thought should be how he can be fit for the coming season. 

 

The club brushed it aside and said it was a 2 week injury. Except he clearly isn't a quick healer because it took 3 months. Hence why 3 weeks wasn't enough in the summer. 

 

As for his form, I remember who you were referencing at the back end of the season was our midfield difference maker. And I agreed with you on it. And it wasn't this fella. 

I think every bit of success we've had is down to the balance of the team.

 

Not down to any individual performances.

 

The balance was gone the moment we lost Fab and Hendo from midfield.

 

It came back only when we had Fab and Thiago in midfield.

 

Fabinho's presence was key. Thiago's quality was clear.

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1 hour ago, m0e said:

I think every bit of success we've had is down to the balance of the team.

 

Not down to any individual performances.

 

The balance was gone the moment we lost Fab and Hendo from midfield.

 

It came back only when we had Fab and Thiago in midfield.

 

Fabinho's presence was key. Thiago's quality was clear.

Fair enough. You didn't talk much about thiago at the time, it was mostly fab. Personally I think thiago's contribution was massively over egged. I'm sure he's been a fine footballer elsewhere, but I've not seen it in anywhere near long enough periods in a red shirt. 

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2 hours ago, Code said:

Thiago is brilliant, the less said about these last few pages the better it is. 


Be nice if he showed it consistently in a Liverpool top.  He hasn’t so far and that’s the bottom line.

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5 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

Fair enough. You didn't talk much about thiago at the time, it was mostly fab. Personally I think thiago's contribution was massively over egged. I'm sure he's been a fine footballer elsewhere, but I've not seen it in anywhere near long enough periods in a red shirt. 

I'll dig out the posts I made about Thiago if you really want me to. I was a big fan of his even when he wasn't playing 'well' for us.

 

But I agree we haven't seen it for long enough yet.

 

I think our system is fucked without Fabinho, and only partially where it should be when Hendo plays the 6.

 

For me, without Alisson, VVD, Fabinho down the spine, we're not winning anything.

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17 hours ago, aRdja said:

I’m always happy to discuss Bamford, but just found it a bit odd when you asked to me stop discussing a player you yourself brought up. If you don’t want to discuss Patrick Bamford, surely the easiest and most obvious way is to not bring him up in an unrelated discussion?

 

Bamford had an excellent season last year. Even Jurgen Klopp and Ousmane Dembele are huge fans. I have noticed that this forum in general has this weird attitude towards English players, I don’t really get it, but I’ve come to accept it. 
 

Back to Thiago, the situations are as different or similar as you (one) make it really. Thiago played with an injury for us, and then he went to the Euros and played a bit-part role as a result, and came back not fit enough to start the season. Fabinho and Firmino also came back not fit enough to start the season, Bobby pulled a muscle a few minutes into his first start FFS, Thiago also made an appearance before Fabinho.

 

bamford.gif

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21 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

 

bamford.gif

While Bamford is an ok player,or at least he was last season anyway,imagine the premium you'd pay on him for an average English/British player? It's no wonder big clubs(with sense,not City of course)avoid these type of signings as there is no value in them at all.

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