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Thiago Alcantara

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3 minutes ago, aRdja said:

You could but that’d be wrong IMO. Fabinho was truly awful last night for example and wasn’t that much better against West Brom either.

I agree about Fabinho's most recent form. But Thiago definitely plays a different role more effectively when Fabinho's in the team. 

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15 minutes ago, Lario said:

"Kept"?

 

How many times did it happen?

And did it really nulify all the other good stuff he did?

I noticed at least three times where it happened & no it did not nullify the other things he did.

 

Solskjaer or Cavani clearly spotted a weak spot there though and Thiago wasn't quick enough to react. These incidents were in our half.

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6 hours ago, aRdja said:

You could but that’d be wrong IMO. Fabinho was truly awful last night for example and wasn’t that much better against West Brom either.

He was poor last night, I agree. In fact I mentioned on the MF match thread about he looked so tired he was unable to jump when he went up for headers. But it proves my point. World class players help command and pull up those around them. That's what fabinho has done since he reverted to midfield. He's helped position those around much better. Helps shield the defence much better. Talks players through the game better. Fabinho's presence in midfield has been so good it's almost like he's playing midfield and centre back. Even those praising thiago through this thread weeks back were talking about how he needed others around him. He's got that now and his game has gone up. Fabinho would be sound if thiago had sat on the bench and Curtis Jones had played. 

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4 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

He was poor last night, I agree. In fact I mentioned on the MF match thread about he looked so tired he was unable to jump when he went up for headers. But it proves my point. World class players help command and pull up those around them. That's what fabinho has done since he reverted to midfield. He's helped position those around much better. Helps shield the defence much better. Talks players through the game better. Fabinho's presence in midfield has been so good it's almost like he's playing midfield and centre back. Even those praising thiago through this thread weeks back were talking about how he needed others around him. He's got that now and his game has gone up. Fabinho would be sound if thiago had sat on the bench and Curtis Jones had played. 

Not when they’re the worst players on the pitch, they don’t. I think you’re overcomplicating it a bit Barry. I just call it as I see it. Fabinho and Gini have been poor. I’m a fan of Fab’s and Gini’s too but I’m happy to admit that. I don’t need feel the need to make excuses for them. Had Curtis Jones had been playing instead, chances are you’d be making lunch plans with your mates for Sunday. 

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31 minutes ago, aRdja said:

Not when they’re the worst players on the pitch, they don’t. I think you’re overcomplicating it a bit Barry. I just call it as I see it. Fabinho and Gini have been poor. I’m a fan of Fab’s and Gini’s too but I’m happy to admit that. I don’t need feel the need to make excuses for them. Had Curtis Jones had been playing instead, chances are you’d be making lunch plans with your mates for Sunday. 

Ok. I'm happy for you that you think football is only about kicking the ball. I'll carry on looking beyond a no look pass. 

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13 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Ok. I'm happy for you that you think football is only about kicking the ball. I'll carry on looking beyond a no look pass. 

Also keeping the ball, Fabinho got his pockets picked about half a dozen times against Burnley. I just don’t feel the need to make excuses for players anymore. I mean your logic was used often to defend Heskey in the season when he scored like 5 goals, “but he makes Owen play better”.  Actually no mate, let’s get someone else who can do all those things and score 20 goals. Thiago will have a poor game again, maybe on Sunday or hopefully he can wait until next season, and I for sure won’t be pointing the finger at another player when that happens.

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1 minute ago, aRdja said:

Also keeping the ball, Fabinho got his pockets picked about half a dozen times against Burnley. I just don’t feel the need to make excuses for players anymore. I mean your logic was used often to defend Heskey in the season when he scored like 5 goals, “but he makes Owen play better”.  Actually no mate, let’s get someone else who can do all those things and score 20 goals. 

I've already agreed with you that fabinho was poor the other night. Do I need to say it again? If it helps, fabinho was poor on Wednesday. And I'd have a poor fabinho in our midfield every single time before any of our other midfield pmayers, because he's one of those players that elevates those around him. Almost like a midfield vvd. 

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5 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

He was poor last night, I agree. In fact I mentioned on the MF match thread about he looked so tired he was unable to jump when he went up for headers. But it proves my point. World class players help command and pull up those around them. That's what fabinho has done since he reverted to midfield. He's helped position those around much better. Helps shield the defence much better. Talks players through the game better. Fabinho's presence in midfield has been so good it's almost like he's playing midfield and centre back. Even those praising thiago through this thread weeks back were talking about how he needed others around him. He's got that now and his game has gone up. Fabinho would be sound if thiago had sat on the bench and Curtis Jones had played. 

The whole point of having a #6 like Fabinho is to create a balance and make it easier for everybody through increased solidity. You're literally describing a holding midfielder's job. It's not exactly surprising that the established top class holding midfielder in our team improves our team when he's in midfield, even when he plays poorly as he has recently. Henderson also has a similar galvanizing effect because he knows the club and our football inside and out, he's been here 9 years. Are they more important to our success than Thiago is? Yes. Does that make Thiago any less good? No. 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I've already agreed with you that fabinho was poor the other night. Do I need to say it again? If it helps, fabinho was poor on Wednesday. And I'd have a poor fabinho in our midfield every single time before any of our other midfield pmayers, because he's one of those players that elevates those around him. Almost like a midfield vvd. 

He’s our only natural number six and he is a world class footballer, so of course he starts when fit. Thiago has been carrying the midfield on his own when both Gini and Fab have been largely poor the last couple of weeks was my original point on this topic. Not sure what the relevance of which player you’d have on the pitch first. These players are out on the pitch playing together, it’s not an either/or scenario, and we’re commenting on their performances on the pitch. 

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8 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

The whole point of having a #6 like Fabinho is to create a balance and make it easier for everybody through increased solidity. You're literally describing a holding midfielder's job. It's not exactly surprising that the established top class holding midfielder in our team improves our team when he's in midfield, even when he plays poorly as he has recently. Henderson also has a similar galvanizing effect because he knows the club and our football inside and out, he's been here 9 years. Are they more important to our success than Thiago is? Yes. Does that make Thiago any less good? No. 

 

 

I would say world class players improve the players around them as well as the contribution they bring. They also shine when all around them are shit. Thiago has come in as a supposed world class talent and it would appear the way to get a performance out of him is to surround him with world class talent. I don't see anyone playing better because of him. I don't see him playing well once we pick up some injuries and he hasn't got Henderson or fabinho to hold his hand. Up to now all he's done is illustrated unless the environment is perfect, he's pretty poor. When the environment is good, he can pass the ball a lot. As I said about fuck knows how many posts ago, that sounds like Adam Lallana and not a world class player. 

 

I bored of posting about it now. There is absolutely nothing he can do within this season to change my mind on that, because there's one game to go and his body of work till the last couple of games has been poor. Hopefully next season he'll prove me wrong. In fact hopefully he can't because our team will be back full of the very types of player I believe make thiago perform at his best. But that's all for next season now. 

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1 hour ago, Barrington Womble said:

I would say world class players improve the players around them as well as the contribution they bring. They also shine when all around them are shit. Thiago has come in as a supposed world class talent and it would appear the way to get a performance out of him is to surround him with world class talent. I don't see anyone playing better because of him. I don't see him playing well once we pick up some injuries and he hasn't got Henderson or fabinho to hold his hand. Up to now all he's done is illustrated unless the environment is perfect, he's pretty poor. When the environment is good, he can pass the ball a lot. As I said about fuck knows how many posts ago, that sounds like Adam Lallana and not a world class player. 

 

I bored of posting about it now. There is absolutely nothing he can do within this season to change my mind on that, because there's one game to go and his body of work till the last couple of games has been poor. Hopefully next season he'll prove me wrong. In fact hopefully he can't because our team will be back full of the very types of player I believe make thiago perform at his best. But that's all for next season now. 

Fabinho and Gini have been poor over the last few weeks, and he’s been playing in front of Phillips and Rhys Williams, who played in Bundesliga 2 and non-league respectively last season. Hardly a “perfect” environment, Barry. I’d really just call it as it is.

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1 hour ago, aRdja said:

Fabinho and Gini have been poor over the last few weeks, and he’s been playing in front of Phillips and Rhys Williams, who played in Bundesliga 2 and non-league respectively last season. Hardly a “perfect” environment, Barry. I’d really just call it as it is.

I wouldn't say fabinho has been poor in recent weeks. He was poor individually on weds. But he didn't hide and still led the team. Anyway, as I said in another post. I'm tired of talking about it. If you think the contribution from thiago has been good enough through these last 5 months, good for you. He has been barely adequate most of the time for me and has had at most 4 decent games. Can we just agree to disagree without boring the shit out of everyone going round in circles? 

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24 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I wouldn't say fabinho has been poor in recent weeks. He was poor individually on weds. But he didn't hide and still led the team. Anyway, as I said in another post. I'm tired of talking about it. If you think the contribution from thiago has been good enough through these last 5 months, good for you. He has been barely adequate most of the time for me and has had at most 4 decent games. Can we just agree to disagree without boring the shit out of everyone going round in circles? 

Fabinho wasn’t that much better against West Brom. I’m not talking about the last 5 months. I’m disputing your comment regarding him needing world class partners for him to perform. He’s been the best performing midfielder over the past few weeks, even when his partners were mediocre or poor, therefore I think your comment was factually incorrect. He’s had poor games prior to that of course, but over the past couple of weeks he’s been carrying the midfield. That’s the truth.

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6 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

I would say world class players improve the players around them as well as the contribution they bring. They also shine when all around them are shit. Thiago has come in as a supposed world class talent and it would appear the way to get a performance out of him is to surround him with world class talent. I don't see anyone playing better because of him. I don't see him playing well once we pick up some injuries and he hasn't got Henderson or fabinho to hold his hand. Up to now all he's done is illustrated unless the environment is perfect, he's pretty poor. When the environment is good, he can pass the ball a lot. As I said about fuck knows how many posts ago, that sounds like Adam Lallana and not a world class player. 

 

I bored of posting about it now. There is absolutely nothing he can do within this season to change my mind on that, because there's one game to go and his body of work till the last couple of games has been poor. Hopefully next season he'll prove me wrong. In fact hopefully he can't because our team will be back full of the very types of player I believe make thiago perform at his best. But that's all for next season now. 

You say you're bored Barry, but you bring these debates on yourself with your ridiculous hyperbole and complete incapacity to budge a single inch. I won't mention the other topic you do this in because everyone knows what it is. You were convinced he was the sole reason we were losing matches in Jan and Feb which was a hilariously mental point and now you're simply repeating every game, usually unprompted, that you still think he's shite. Of course that will prompt discussion. 

 

The thing is, he's had a lot of good games but I think everyone will agree with you he's still not been great and can really improve. That's not the issue. The issue is your argumentation has been ridiculous. 

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