Thiago Alcantara

[Barrington Womble]

13 minutes ago, Alex_K said:

Yeah hopefully. I'm always a little suspicious whether funds raised by players who are not conspicuous by their absence (an Ibe versus a Coutinho, say) are wholly re-invested in the same way. But if we spend irrespective of the impact that outgoing players have on the squad then it is an absolute no brainer.

Lallana had the nice equaliser at Old Trafford that kept our momentum on track earlier in the season but none of the others have contributed in any meaningful way.

I think that can just be a timing thing. The one thing I'd say in fsgs favour is a few times (certainly earlier in their time here), they'd buy and then recover the cash later in the window. I suspect they just don't like fees and the club is tasked with attempting to break even on them as a result, but those littler fees maybe are adding up recovering the odd time we've net spent on fees. 

 

I don't know what covid has cost the club, but I would expect budgets to be reduced to recover that money in its entirety. So if we ended up selling Shaq, gruic and Wilson (plus the others I've mentioned) it wouldn't surprise me if only thiago came the other way. 

[Ne Moe Imya]

2 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

Yep, alot of smoke on this fella.

 

Wopuld be nice to break the "FSG Type" signing pattern if just for the sake of. He is certainly a top player.

 

Heres one for discussion -- who would make the side stronger over the next two seasons Thiago or Havertz?

I think there's a massive "if" involved in the question.

 

Thiago, if he could stay fit, would make us a much better side than Havertz, at least in the short-term. But I'd put the odds on Thiago playing 60 games or more for us across those two seasons at about 60%. And then you have the issue of him assuredly wanting more than a 2-year contract, so you'd have to pay him for his age 32 and 33 seasons where he'd be well past his best.

 

But that's why he'd cost us probably 15m/season between fee and wages, and Havertz would cost 25-30m/season. I think if you told Edwards he could pay 30m for Thiago and get him on a contract of 150k/week (7.5m/year), and then sell him after 2 years for 20m, I think he'd go for it. That would be a total of 25m spent on him overall for 2 seasons where he'll be past his peak but still a really good player.

 

The problem is the risk involved. With Havertz, barring a major injury, you have an asset you can sell and get most of your money back in 2-3 years even if it doesn't work out. With Thiago you need more to go right to see that happen, and there are a lot more ways it could go wrong.

[aRdja]

8 minutes ago, clockspeed said:

He is indeed however he has played up front by himself last 3 or 4 games (been pretty effective to be fair) and has scored a few goals including a couple of headers. So in our enduring quest to finding competition for Bobby the feeling is Havertz could do the Bobby role when required before cementing his place in team as a midfielder.

I genuinely don’t see it. May well be because I’ve never seen him play in midfield, so I’ll take your word for it. He looked great as a no 9 though. 

[aRdja]

30 minutes ago, Alex_K said:

Yeah hopefully. I'm always a little suspicious whether funds raised by players who are not conspicuous by their absence (an Ibe versus a Coutinho, say) are wholly re-invested in the same way. But if we spend irrespective of the impact that outgoing players have on the squad then it is an absolute no brainer.

Lallana had the nice equaliser at Old Trafford that kept our momentum on track earlier in the season but none of the others have contributed in any meaningful way.

Lovren had more starts than Matip including playing full 90 minutes against City at home. He will absolutely need to be replaced. 

[kemskem]

I don’t watch a lot of German football but I tuned into a Leverkusen match once and Havertz was just strolling about and never pressed the opposition. I take it that’s not how he is normally.

[3 Stacks]

3 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

Yep, alot of smoke on this fella.

 

Wopuld be nice to break the "FSG Type" signing pattern if just for the sake of. He is certainly a top player.

 

Heres one for discussion -- who would make the side stronger over the next two seasons Thiago or Havertz?

Thiago is an experienced world class player in his prime. He improves the team right away. It's the type of luxury signing a team of our standing can now afford to make. Even if he has some fitness issues here and there, when he plays, almost every Premier League midfielder won't be able to get near him.

 

Havertz would probably be good right away but his value would be down the line as a top class replacement for Firmino in the team. That's where I imagine he'd play for us. At least in Klopp's way of playing, I don't think he'd slot into the midfield. He's made for that false 9 role. Or playing behind a striker

[VladimirIlyich]

Who is buying Lovren? Have they realised it yet?

[clockspeed]

36 minutes ago, kemskem said:

I don’t watch a lot of German football but I tuned into a Leverkusen match once and Havertz was just strolling about and never pressed the opposition. I take it that’s not how he is normally.

Doesn't press much your observation correct but probably clouded by the workrate of our own players. Very offensively minded wherever he plays. 

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Who is buying Lovren? Have they realised it yet?

Last I heard they were buying him for spare parts.

[VladimirIlyich]

2 minutes ago, Fluter in Dakota said:

Last I heard they were buying him for spare parts.

I hope they realise the brain is useless?

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

16 minutes ago, clockspeed said:

Doesn't press much your observation correct but probably clouded by the workrate of our own players. Very offensively minded wherever he plays. 

Genuine question, I have hardly seen Havertz play. Do people think we would even consider him, or that he’d fit in at all, if he isn’t any good at or can quickly adapt to our intense pressing game?

[TheHowieLama]

1 hour ago, Ne Moe Imya said:

I think there's a massive "if" involved in the question.

Yep - I don't think we would be talking about Thiago "if" Keita had been a little more durable.

[aRdja]

2 hours ago, TheHowieLama said:

Yep - I don't think we would be talking about Thiago "if" Keita had been a little more durable.

Interesting point this. Would you let Keita go to make space for Thiago?

[Guest]

1 hour ago, aRdja said:

Interesting point this. Would you let Keita go to make space for Thiago?

[Bad Red Bull]

2 hours ago, aRdja said:

Interesting point this. Would you let Keita go to make space for Thiago?

Yes, that's my other problem with this signing. If we get Thiago, it's less playing time for Keita and we can't afford to have a 50m signing sitting on the bench. If he's not first choice, he might as well be sold

[Bobby Hundreds]

Maybe the midfield long term plan is Keita, Fabinho, Jones. Thiago's age means he's a player to use until Jones comes of age. 

[suzy]

I thought Havertz was going to Chelsea?

[Barrington Womble]

9 hours ago, aRdja said:

Lovren had more starts than Matip including playing full 90 minutes against City at home. He will absolutely need to be replaced. 

Load up in midfield will be the replacement and use fabinho, Henderson or Gini as 4th choice if we don't feel a kid is ready. 

[aRdja]

29 minutes ago, The Gaul said:

Load up in midfield will be the replacement and use fabinho, Henderson or Gini as 4th choice if we don't feel a kid is ready. 

We won’t win anything if Hendo/Gini play more than 5 games at CB. Fabinho at least looked capable from the short time he started there a couple of seasons ago. 

[clockspeed]

9 hours ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

Genuine question, I have hardly seen Havertz play. Do people think we would even consider him, or that he’d fit in at all, if he isn’t any good at or can quickly adapt to our intense pressing game?

He would have to adapt to our current style however the reason I so keen on him is that we need to be realistic for the future. We will never have a front three like we currently have in terms of meshing their talents together so let's enjoy that for next two to three years. Buying Havertz (to me) is a signal that we will change the way we play to accommodate him and his talents. As aRdja has pointed out he can play as no 9 and even as a midfielder he making runs and spending large majority of his time in really offensive positions . Currently we leave the mayhem and scoring to our front three so options in our current squad would be Bobby's kick up the backside or bit like what Keita should be bringing to our midfield . Personally I would give Naby up for Havertz in current squad knowing he can be an able stand-in when Bobby not firing. I have seen this lad in the flesh and I know I have a slight tendancy to favour skillful players (Molby esqe) but this lad has it all . If the Euros had this year he would be starting for Germany . 

[Thoth]

9 hours ago, VladimirIlyich said:

Who is buying Lovren? Have they realised it yet?

Zenit according to Paul Joyce

[clockspeed]

6 hours ago, aRdja said:

Interesting point this. Would you let Keita go to make space for Thiago?

Never good to answer a question with a question but would you let Keita go to make space for Havertz ? 

 

I would be buying Thiago also btw.

[aRdja]

8 minutes ago, clockspeed said:

Never good to answer a question with a question but would you let Keita go to make space for Havertz ? 

 

I would be buying Thiago also btw.

I’d play Havertz as a forward, so in this case, I wouldn’t have to. 

[El Dangerous]

We’re not signing Havertz fuckheads. 

[clockspeed]

7 minutes ago, aRdja said:

I’d play Havertz as a forward, so no...

Fine by me he has the talent , if FSG would not sanction Werner then there is no way Havertz happening . As such yeah I would take Thaigo as a replacement for Keita and enjoy the next two/three years of dominance. Post that it's up to next manager and his own footballing philosophy just hope we have a succession plan (that we currently working on)  in terms of available playing staff for whomever it may be . We do not need another post Kenny or post Fergie type slump for decades .