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Thiago Alcantara

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54 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Salah aside they've all been shite I see no reason for him to be singled out at least he has the excuse of starting in a side that looks lost and doesn't seem to be getting managed.

 

Someone like firminho the evidence has been there for an absurdly long time he's a 5 a side player now. If he's our number 9 next year we're fucked then too.

Agreed about Firmino. He was great for a couple of seasons, but he's been living off past glories for quite a while now. We won the league despite him last season,  mainly because the defence was solid and Mane and Salah were lethal. When others have struggled and we've needed him to step up this season, he's been even worse. He seems to either completely mishit every shot he has or concentrate so much on hitting the target that he gets no power behind them at all. Four decent chances in the game against Everton and he didn't strike a single one of them with any conviction whatsoever. I don't think we need a complete overhaul next season, but we won't be back challenging if Firmino is playing week in week out again.

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2 hours ago, Redder Lurtz said:

Getting more than a bit sick of some wankers on here singling him out. We've got christ knows how many first team players out injured, what's left of the squad are playing utter fucking turdball but it's all Thiago's fault? Get to fuck you hysterical cunts. 

Literally nobody has said it's all his fault. Or singles him out as the main reason we've been shit this season.

 

Nobody.

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6 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

 "Tropical fish". "If life isn't perfect for him, he'd sooner die". He had the most tackles from a Liverpool player today. 

 

You're patently absurd sometimes. 

He was absolutely fucking shite yesterday. He wasn't the only one. Gini and firmino gave him a pretty good run for his money, but he is shite every match. He's becoming another player where if he gets one thing right it's so unusual, you're able to remember it for games and games. The lad passes the ball like a 70 year old man playing no run football and passing is supposed to be the best side of his game. 

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Needs to play in a properly functioning midfield before he can be properly judged, but he hasn’t made much of an impact yet. 

 

Also, it didn’t help that he became a hybrid of Cruyff and Maradona in a lot of minds during his absence through injury.

 

I also think reasonable questions can be asked about the current quality of the Bundesliga in the light of his and Keita’s even more underwhelming showings for us. The national team have taken a bit of a dip too. It also says a lot that we could beat Leipzig relatively easily despite our abysmal league form.

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41 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

Needs to play in a properly functioning midfield before he can be properly judged, but he hasn’t made much of an impact yet. 

 

Also, it didn’t help that he became a hybrid of Cruyff and Maradona in a lot of minds during his absence through injury.

 

I also think reasonable questions can be asked about the current quality of the Bundesliga in the light of his and Keita’s even more underwhelming showings for us. The national team have taken a bit of a dip too. It also says a lot that we could beat Leipzig relatively easily despite our abysmal league form.

Proper functioning midfield? Gini is a regular from our championship and champions League winning teams. And thiago himself has won about 10 league titles. That's 2/3 of the midfield. Jones has been better than both of them. Part of the reason we don't have a proper functioning midfield is because thiago is in it. 

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I don't get it with the criticism of Thiago.  I'm not saying he's blowing minds, but I see him tackling (sometimes even without giving fouls away), I see him receiving the ball in dangerous areas (he's always the best out ball available), and I see him using it well.  I do see that him and the forwards are not sharing the same wavelength yet, and I do see that he will play little balls expecting his teammates to have the intelligence to know it's coming, and it will be put in the right place, but are not yet reading the play - for example Jones is good at reading where Thiago will place the ball, Robbo is terrible at it.

 

I thought Thiago was caught between doing too many jobs in midfield, frankly, and this has been the case in several games this season.

 

Jones in theory could be great for our midfield.  He almost seems too desperate to show he's learning from the coaches, playing percentage balls, not making runs with the ball etc - when I think playing his natural game at the moment is what we need from him.  

 

Our problem is not that we don't control midfields, we just don't do anything with that control.   

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17 minutes ago, stringvest said:

I don't get it with the criticism of Thiago.  I'm not saying he's blowing minds, but I see him tackling (sometimes even without giving fouls away), I see him receiving the ball in dangerous areas (he's always the best out ball available), and I see him using it well.  I do see that him and the forwards are not sharing the same wavelength yet, and I do see that he will play little balls expecting his teammates to have the intelligence to know it's coming, and it will be put in the right place, but are not yet reading the play - for example Jones is good at reading where Thiago will place the ball, Robbo is terrible at it.

 

I thought Thiago was caught between doing too many jobs in midfield, frankly, and this has been the case in several games this season.

 

Jones in theory could be great for our midfield.  He almost seems too desperate to show he's learning from the coaches, playing percentage balls, not making runs with the ball etc - when I think playing his natural game at the moment is what we need from him.  

 

Our problem is not that we don't control midfields, we just don't do anything with that control.   

Thiago kills the pace off the ball all the time. When he first came in the team he was playing a fair few fast, vertical passes over short distances. But even they seem to have stopped. You've mentioned there our forwards and robbo are not on his wavelength. There's a common denominator there. And that's 4 of the 6 players who are likely to be in front him - is it really what you want out of your play maker he can't play with two thirds of his team mates? Or they need to adapt to him rather than the other way round? He's providing the level of contribution we got from Alberto aquilani years ago. I find it astonishing how a team that's had no issues in scoring for 5 years, including this season with the injuries and he comes in and every match looks like a training session and the goals have dried up and people seem not to want to see the correlation. He's not our only problem, but he's an absolute major part of it. As soon as milner is back, I'd be benching him. Same with Jota and firmino. They both look like washed up players. 

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To take one of the front three as an example:  if Salah (that's 20-plus goals in all of his seasons at Liverpool so far) is not on Thiago's wavelength, perhaps, just perhaps, it might be worth exploring whether Thiago needs to get on Salah's wavelength instead.

 

But until we have VvD back, and things back to "normal" in midfield, and Jota, and our spine restored... we probably won't know.

 

He wasn't bought, I guess, with this current XI in mind.

 

But I wouldn't put anything at the moment down to a sudden lack of "intelligence" from players that have won a European Cup and League title on the bounce.

 

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1 hour ago, El Rojo said:

Also, it didn’t help that he became a hybrid of Cruyff and Maradona in a lot of minds during his absence through injury.

 

A bit like Diogo Rush?

 

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5 hours ago, Redder Lurtz said:

Getting more than a bit sick of some wankers on here singling him out. We've got christ knows how many first team players out injured, what's left of the squad are playing utter fucking turdball but it's all Thiago's fault? Get to fuck you hysterical cunts. 


A good post in full.

 

It’s become fashionable to blame Thiago for our poor form. There was even people saying «this is all on Thiago» after we lost to City, and three of their goals came after he went off. You couldnt make it up.

 

He’s not been outstanding, I dont think any of our players have for the last three months, including Salah, but the way people are singling Thiago out is just ridiculous. 

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13 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:


A good post in full.

 

It’s become fashionable to blame Thiago for our poor form. There was even people saying «this is all on Thiago» after we lost to City, and three of their goals came after he went off. You couldnt make it up.

 

He’s not been outstanding, I dont think any of our players have for the last three months, including Salah, but the way people are singling Thiago out is just ridiculous. 

People need someone to blame to help them process and deal with the current situation. It’s easy(er) to pick on him because he wasn’t involved in the CL and PL wins in the last couple of years. He’s been fine. To blame him for slowing down the play is just baffling; out of the three midfielders we had starting the game, he released the ball the quickest by far. I’m saying this as a big fan of Gini’s too. 

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4 hours ago, Jairzinho said:

We can't play with and Jones in midfield, especially when we have second division centrebacks in the side. Sadly, we don't really have much choice at the moment. 

 

Our three best centre backs and two most solid midfielders are injured. Fuck knows how we mask that. 

Van Dijk apart they always are. One of our biggest problems in my opinion is the sheer number of injury prone players we have. It’s off the scale.

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3 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

He was absolutely fucking shite yesterday. He wasn't the only one. Gini and firmino gave him a pretty good run for his money, but he is shite every match. He's becoming another player where if he gets one thing right it's so unusual, you're able to remember it for games and games. The lad passes the ball like a 70 year old man playing no run football and passing is supposed to be the best side of his game. 

I will say, to your point, he's not using the ball as well as he should. He is far better with the ball than what he has shown. What it looks like is, he's tried to adapt to the way we play midfield and he's just using it simply. What he should be doing is being the guy to break the opposition press and play incisive balls to the fullbacks and Mane/Salah. There hasn't been enough of that. 

 

Your first post was absolute nonsense though because actually, the way he's playing right now, he's running all over the place, throwing himself into tackles, trying to be physical and intense and adapting to our play. It actually looks like he's trying hard to mimic the way that Milner plays or something, and he's actually doing a decent job minus the fouls he's making, but he's not being himself. 

 

But despite all that, he's still objectively been fine. He's far from the disaster you'd think he was by the way most supporters are describing. And it's still not at all a concern to me. We turned into a mediocre football team way before he started playing. 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

Van Dijk apart they always are. One of our biggest problems in my opinion is the sheer number of injury prone players we have. It’s off the scale.

As good as Matip is he's got to go. Klopp won't get rid though. 

 

I think Gomez has been unlucky, he's had a couple of big injuries. Whether he comes back the same player remains to be seen, but I'm not as convinced he's injury prone. 

 

No idea who our collection of centre backs will be at the start of next season. I hope Davies gets a chance between now and the end of the season because if he can run, isn't a complete imbecile, and doesn't spend half the season in the treatment room, he's probably worth keeping as fourth choice. 

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4 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

I will say, to your point, he's not using the ball as well as he should. He is far better with the ball than what he has shown. What it looks like is, he's tried to adapt to the way we play midfield and he's just using it simply. What he should be doing is being the guy to break the opposition press and play incisive balls to the fullbacks and Mane/Salah. There hasn't been enough of that. 

 

Your first post was absolute nonsense though because actually, the way he's playing right now, he's running all over the place, throwing himself into tackles, trying to be physical and intense and adapting to our play. It actually looks like he's trying hard to mimic the way that Milner plays or something, and he's actually doing a decent job minus the fouls he's making, but he's not being himself. 

 

But despite all that, he's still objectively been fine. He's far from the disaster you'd think he was by the way most supporters are describing. And it's still not at all a concern to me. We turned into a mediocre football team way before he started playing. 

 

 

So what you're saying is he can't pass and he's a poor man's milner? 

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Just now, Barrington Womble said:

So what you're saying is he can't pass and he's a poor man's milner? 

Can't even get an honest reply out of you when I agree with one of your points. Jesus, Barry. Lighten up, will you.  

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5 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

As good as Matip is he's got to go. Klopp won't get rid though. 

 

I think Gomez has been unlucky, he's had a couple of big injuries. Whether he comes back the same player remains to be seen, but I'm not as convinced he's injury prone. 

 

No idea who our collection of centre backs will be at the start of next season. I hope Davies gets a chance between now and the end of the season because if he can run, isn't a complete imbecile, and doesn't spend half the season in the treatment room, he's probably worth keeping as fourth choice. 

Think I read somewhere he likes a hamstring “tweak” He should fit right in.

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1 minute ago, Jairzinho said:

As good as Matip is he's got to go. Klopp won't get rid though. 

 

I think Gomez has been unlucky, he's couple of big injuries. Whether he comes back the same player remains to be seen, but I'm not as convinced he's injury prone. 

 

No idea who our collection of centre backs will be at the start of next season. I hope Davies gets a chance between now and the end of the season because if he can run, isn't a complete imbecile, and doesn't spend half the season in the treatment room, he's probably worth keeping as fourth choice. 

Gomez has a long lay off pretty much every season. Maybe his is unlucky, but he's never fit. He's been a regular since the moment he joined us (playing left back under Rodgers) and he's in his 6th season with us. He has played 79 league games. 

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Just now, Captain Howdy said:

Think I read somewhere he likes a hamstring “tweak” He should fit right in.

Ha, fuck sake. 

 

I know he's proper alehouse but I like Phillips. He knows he's no Alessandro Nesta and plays accordingly. 

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12 minutes ago, Captain Howdy said:

Van Dijk apart they always are. One of our biggest problems in my opinion is the sheer number of injury prone players we have. It’s off the scale.

Problem is tho mate why are these players picking up so many injuries Van Dijk and Gomez apart the rest seem to be muscle injuries and not just niggles proper 4-6 week lay offs even our Goalie has missed large chunks of the last 2 seasons with muscle injuries I've not seen another Keeper in the PL miss as many games with different "niggles" someone needs to look towards the training / medical teams and figure out what the fucks happening.

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5 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Can't even get an honest reply out of you when I agree with one of your points. Jesus, Barry. Lighten up, will you.  

He's shite, I'm astonished anyone can still defend him. He's been an integral part of the worst Liverpool team certainly since shankly has been manager, but as all the stats are showing, it's probably 100 years. We were top of the league and unbeaten in years at home when he was injured. He's not even been in the team 2 months yet. 

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1 minute ago, Barrington Womble said:

Gomez has a long lay off pretty much every season. Maybe his is unlucky, but he's never fit. He's been a regular since the moment he joined us (playing left back under Rodgers) and he's in his 6th season with us. He has played 79 league games. 

He'd just turned 18 when we signed him so the 79 appearances in five and a half seasons thing isn't entirely reflective. Matip has been first choice at times as well. 

 

Anyway we're not going to bin him and Matip in the summer so we have to make the decision with the context of the Matip situation. 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

Ha, fuck sake. 

 

I know he's proper alehouse but I like Phillips. He knows he's no Alessandro Nesta and plays accordingly. 

Yep, should have been used a lot more.

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2 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

He'd just turned 18 when we signed him so the 79 appearances in five and a half seasons thing isn't entirely reflective. Matip has been first choice at times as well. 

 

Anyway we're not going to bin him and Matip in the summer so we have to make the decision with the context of the Matip situation. 

 

 

We'll keep them both and hedge our bets by having five CBs in the squad next season. 

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