Thiago Alcantara

[SlugTrail]

2 hours ago, magicrat said:

I think he slows us up in midfield when our whole game is about high tempo and quick incisive passing. Not sure we need the midfield general type. He's a superb footballer so can only hope we find a way to get the best from him

Thats bollocks, Gini slows us up more than anyone, if the 5 yard sideways pass isn't on straight away he shield it and passes it back.

 

As good as I think Jones will become he also needs to stop dwelling on the ball, I think this will come with more maturity.

 

Thiagos biggest problem is hes not big strong and and quick enough to play the 6 role, he is too isolated in the 8 role and won't cover the fullbacks and we don't play a no. 10 as we have a false 9. Maybe he could play in Bobby's role.

[VERBAL DIARRHEA]

4231 play him in the middle of the 3 and get Jota in pronto. Easy this shit. 
 

Gizza job Jurgen.

[3 Stacks]

11 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Yip

Do you have proof of that? Because I don't remember teams trying to be expansive against us when we were winning almost every game the two seasons before this one. Teams have not just now figured out they need to park the bus.

[The Guest]

It’s like some people have had a lobotomy.  We weren’t creating tons of chances and battering every side before us last season.  I honestly wonder how fucking thick these people are.  How many games did we win by one goal last season?  I lost count in the end.  We haven’t relentlessly pressed and counter pressed teams regularly for over 2 years because hardly anyone gives us the opportunity.  Our whole game changed to a possession based approach so long ago I can’t even remember it being different.

[Crazy Dave]

2 minutes ago, The Guest said:

It’s like some people have had a lobotomy.  We weren’t creating tons of chances and battering every side before us last season.  I honestly wonder how fucking thick these people are.  How many games did we win by one goal last season?  I lost count in the end.  We haven’t relentlessly pressed and counter pressed teams regularly for over 2 years because hardly anyone gives us the opportunity.  Our whole game changed to a possession based approach so long ago I can’t even remember it being different.

 

Couldn't agree more. The amount of times I have to read about our "scintillating attacking football" last season...

The fact of it is that we were extremely pragmatic and won an awful lot of very tight games by one goal. We were obviously very worth champions, but we seldom blew shit teams away and our sheer force of will kept getting us over the line time and again. There were some exceptions like Leicester away, City at home, Arsenal at home but against the bottom ten we thrashed very, very few. The signs were already there. 

 

 

[3 Stacks]

Under Klopp, we've never had under 58% of the ball since his first full season. We have 60% possession per game on average this season. Our games have always had this dynamic of us having it and teams trying to defend in numbers, this has not changed. This thing of teams having just figured out they need to defend deep against us isn't logical.

[TheHowieLama]

3 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Under Klopp, we've never had under 58% of the ball since his first full season. We have 60% possession per game on average this season. Our games have always had this dynamic of us having it and teams trying to defend in numbers, this has not changed. This thing of teams having just figured out they need to defend deep against us isn't logical.

We just had 55%

[3 Stacks]

1 minute ago, TheHowieLama said:

We just had 55%

I'm talking about on average, in a full season. Of course we've had less than 58% possession in a single game in Klopp's tenure. Did you really think that's what I was saying? Sorry but negged. That's absurd.

[Brownie]

41 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Yip

I'm not sure about that tbh. I think it's an easy think to just assume is happening. 

 

I mean, after we got 97 points and everyone could clearly see how good our attack was, why would teams wait a season to drop back and defend deep?

[TheHowieLama]

Oh - that makes more sense - but it doesn't really illustrate your point - as anyone who watches the games can see teams playing deeper.

[TheHowieLama]

4 minutes ago, Brownie said:

I'm not sure about that tbh. I think it's an easy think to just assume is happening. 

 

I mean, after we got 97 points and everyone could clearly see how good our attack was, why would teams wait a season to drop back and defend deep?

It is not just the back 4 - it is where their midfield sits that has changed against us - now every other team has 7 or 8 in their own area for minutes at a time cuz they know they can't get hurt.

[Brownie]

2 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Oh - that makes more sense - but it doesn't really illustrate your point - as anyone who watches the games can see teams playing deeper.

Well there's a few of us discussing it right now who can't see that. I've been going to Anfield for years and when we're strong (08/09, 13/14, last 3 years...) teams sit deep because of our threat.

 

If there is something that backs up the point then I'd be interested to see it.

[3 Stacks]

6 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Oh - that makes more sense - but it doesn't really illustrate your point - as anyone who watches the games can see teams playing deeper.

Yes, good point. Anybody that watches games can clearly and objectively differentiate that teams are playing deeper now against us than they did years ago when we were practically invincible and teams were shit scared to play us. Impressive memory on those people too, who can remember how deep or not deep Burnley were playing against us in 2018, for example, and compare that in their heads with now. That's why I asked for proof of that , but you clearly don't have any. It's just "well if you watch the games". Oh, ok, cool. I'll try that some time.

[Aventus]

It just looks like the opposition are defending deeper because our counter attacks have gone from taking 10 seconds and about 4 passes to taking 10 minutes and 60 passes. 

 

We're giving them too much time to run back and pack the box again, whereas before we'd catch them on the break. No good having two of the fastest wingers in the league if they're stood in the box waiting for a cross to come in. 

[TheHowieLama]

7 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

who can remember how deep or not deep Burnley were playing against us in 2018, for example, and compare that in their heads with now. 

We can do that - 

 

2018 and last week - see how red their penalty area is in the second one.

 

[3 Stacks]

1 minute ago, TheHowieLama said:

We can do that - 

 

2018 and last week - see how red their penalty area is in the second one.

 

So that's a Burnley game in 2018, compared to the one this year? Fair enough. Is there a trend of these maps being that different comparing games from past season to games this season?

[TheHowieLama]

3 minutes ago, Aventus said:

It just looks like the opposition are defending deeper because our counter attacks have gone from taking 10 seconds and about 4 passes to taking 10 minutes and 60 passes. 

 

Yip, and once they are somewhat set we also have proven we cannot hurt them any other way besides Salah - and lesser Mane - cutting it inside and slashing at it - and neither are deadly finishers.

[TheHowieLama]

Just now, 3 Stacks said:

So that's a Burnley game in 2018, compared to the one this year? Fair enough. Is there a trend of these maps being that different comparing games from past season to games this season?

I think there would be - you can look at any match you want on whoscored.

[aws]

Teams have sat deep against us since we became good. Maybe they keep an extra man back for their corners since our Red Arrow days but any other change by opponents is marginal. 

Since Xmas our form has dropped off a cliff but that's not due to any collective genius by opponents it's due to our intensity dropping ( mixture of not enough quality to rotate with the injuries, no fans, bad form of Bobby and Mane, Thiago not fitting in yet - take your pick but probably a mixture of all of them). We still concede very few chances but have been hit by a run of mostly freakish goals and whereas last season we'd have had the energy/intensity to recover we just can't at the moment. 

Hopefully a week to prepare will see our levels higher for the next three games because when we do play with energy we still look like we can beat anybody. 

[3 Stacks]

2 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

I think there would be - you can look at any match you want on whoscored.

Ok, but you made a statement that teams are generally deeper against us than they were. So, if you have this proof, post it. I'm not gonna look at every match.

[VladimirIlyich]

23 hours ago, an tha said:

Hendo, Fabinho, Wijnaldum

 

For me our best midfield.

 

Now obviously the centre half situation makes that a distant memory at present, so question is does Hendo, Thiago, Wijnaldum if that was put out stand up?

 

Or next season with Wijnaldum gone is Hendo, Fabinho, Thiago gonna be as good?

 

 

I think Wijnaldum has been extra shit lately. In a proper top class team,one where the owners spend a reasonable amount of cash,he'd be in the reserves and told he is staying there until he signs a contract or leaves. Klopp cant do this and couldnt do it with Emre Can either due to our paper thin squad. We've reached the stage now where that paper has big holes in it.

[Brownie]

1 minute ago, aws said:

Teams have sat deep against us since we became good. Maybe they keep an extra man back for their corners since our Red Arrow days but any other change by opponents is marginal. 

Since Xmas our form has dropped off a cliff but that's not due to any collective genius by opponents it's due to our intensity dropping ( mixture of not enough quality to rotate with the injuries, no fans, bad form of Bobby and Mane, Thiago not fitting in yet - take your pick but probably a mixture of all of them). We still concede very few chances but have been hit by a run of mostly freakish goals and whereas last season we'd have had the energy/intensity to recover we just can't at the moment. 

Hopefully a week to prepare will see our levels higher for the next three games because when we do play with energy we still look like we can beat anybody. 

Completely agree with this. Wasn't that long ago when we murdered Palace. We've battered a few teams this season. The difference is the consistency has disappeared, and there are loads of little factors all coming together to explain that, I don't think it has anything to do with teams altering their approach.

[TheHowieLama]

1 minute ago, 3 Stacks said:

Ok, but you made a statement that teams are generally deeper against us than they were. So, if you have this proof, post it. I'm not gonna look at every match.

I am not trying to convince you pal - I am sure that teams are now playing with 8 in their own box and what @awsposted has alot to do with it. That and the fact that we rarely win the ball off the press in their third these days. Teams are bypassing the midfield to get at our back 4.

[aws]

If Burnley's penalty are is red then it's because we've pinned them there which tends to support the point that failing to score from overwhelming possession is more the problem than not being able to dominate teams. No team sets out to defend their area as a tactic. 

[Brownie]

1 minute ago, aws said:

If Burnley's penalty are is red then it's because we've pinned them there which tends to support the point that failing to score from overwhelming possession is more the problem than not being able to dominate teams. No team sets out to defend their area as a tactic. 

Yep, that's what I thought too. Just further adds fuel to the fire that we're getting into the final third and penalty area as well as we ever have under Klopp.