Thiago Alcantara

[TheHowieLama]

Just now, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

Agree that what he’s done before he came here isn’t very relevant.

Of course it is relevant - folks have been crying for years to bring in proven winners. It is a big reason why we went for him.

[El Rojo]

17 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

Still I think if you compare his individual honours to the ones of those United players you’ll notice a difference. Doesnt matter if you include all the mentioned United players.

Of course he’s a more talented footballer than those, but what he’s won prior to joining us is about as relevant to his situation now as his eye colour or choice of breakfast cereal.

 

He joined a team of league and European Cup winners this summer, which makes the previous honours thing even more irrelevant. It’s not like it’s Ivan Camp or Jay Jay Okacha joining Bolton. 

[ManéMan]

Naby Keita has looked miles better than him the last few games he's been on. Hoping he can stay fit in the run in.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

12 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Of course it is relevant - folks have been crying for years to bring in proven winners. It is a big reason why we went for him.

True. That doesnt mean players are beyond criticism because of what they have done in the past.

 

My main point is the criticism of him is mainly wiide off the mark, and in many cases just incorrect. Lots of people just seem to be repeating something they read or heard a couple of months ago from some lazy attention seeking pundit.

[Joey8FrogsLegs]

3 minutes ago, El Rojo said:

Of course he’s a more talented footballer than those, but what he’s won prior to joining us is about as relevant to his situation now as his eye colour or choice of breakfast cereal.

 

He joined a team of league and European Cup winners this summer, which makes the previous honours thing even more irrelevant. It’s not like it’s Ivan Camp or Jay Jay Okacha joining Bolton. 

It seems we agree upon this. 

[3 Stacks]

By the way, this "he can't adapt" thing, he's playing about as differently to how he played at Bayern as possible. We've got him doing a job as a knockoff James Milner in some of these games, making forward runs, flying into tackles and getting into some wide channels. I think he's going to do Wijnaldum's job next season, but what he's doing now is pretty far out. He's all over the pitch. 

[El Rojo]

2 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

It seems we agree upon this. 

I like him and think he’ll be a very good signing. We’ll hopefully see the best of him in Europe in a few weeks time similar to the Leipzig game last week. 

[TheHowieLama]

5 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:

True. That doesnt mean players are beyond criticism because of what they have done in the past.

 

I agree - he has not played as well as he has previously - like in the past. SBut that means any criticism would be based on expectations compared to what he has already done. Which before LFC has been preety good.

Stacksy is right there - he is the consummate double pivot midfielder (to an extent that is Keitas strength as well). 

 

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, TheHowieLama said:

He did?

 

As what - a bit part player?

 

He was useful in Europe years prior.

This is a joke right? Morientes was a regular for real Madrid for years before they bought the real Ronaldo. He won 3 champions Leagues and 2 or 3 la ligas. He was then loaned to Monaco where he was their star man for a season, helping drag them to a CL final. He joined us and was shit. 

[Code]

Thought he was our best midfielder last night, Fabinho as poor. 

[TheHowieLama]

13 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

This is a joke right? Morientes was a regular for real Madrid for years before they bought the real Ronaldo. He won 3 champions Leagues and 2 or 3 la ligas. He was then loaned to Monaco where he was their star man for a season, helping drag them to a CL final. He joined us and was shit. 

Lets think of those teams - Raul first off was the man. Then, well, Zidane, Makalele, Figo, Seedorf, Hierro, Roberto Carlos.

 

Monaco, schmonaco.

[Barrington Womble]

44 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Lets think of those teams - Raul first off was the man. Then, well, Zidane, Makalele, Figo, Seedorf, Hierro, Roberto Carlos.

 

Monaco, schmonaco.

he was a regular. list loads of other good players all you like, you said he was "a bit part player". He had won 3 european cups before being replaced by the best player in the world. i am pretty sure he won most of those titles without Zidane and Makelele (perhaps they played in the last one of the 3). He was feeding off chances made by steve mcmanaman. 

 

and monaco schmonaco ... that's the point. how often do they turn up in champions league finals? yet they did when morientes was playing for them. morientes was a wonderful footballer, but by the time he joined us he was not at the point of learning, he was a finished product in decline, the the game here was way, way too fast for him. 

[JohnnyH]

Like a new signing. 

[TheHowieLama]

The last part I agree with - the game was far too fast and physical for him here. He did go back to Spain and knock in a good few golas. Meh, I don't like him.

[Barrington Womble]

23 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

The last part I agree with - the game was far too fast and physical for him here. He did go back to Spain and knock in a good few golas. Meh, I don't like him.

Morientes is one of the examples i think of every time I watch thiago. Morientes was shit for us, but there was always a point in every game you could see his talent. But the speed, intensity and physicality of the league meant he never looked like he was using muscle memory to do everything on the pitch. After the match the other day, I said I thought Thiago looked like a bloke playing with a hangover. That's what I used to think about morientes all the time. 

[SasaS]

If his father stayed in Brazil Thiago would have been called Faulinho.

[Chris]

18 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

By the way, this "he can't adapt" thing, he's playing about as differently to how he played at Bayern as possible. We've got him doing a job as a knockoff James Milner in some of these games, making forward runs, flying into tackles and getting into some wide channels. I think he's going to do Wijnaldum's job next season, but what he's doing now is pretty far out. He's all over the pitch. 

 

I really hope we aren't planning on him doing what Gini does. 

[3 Stacks]

5 minutes ago, Chris said:

 

I really hope we aren't planning on him doing what Gini does. 

You mean conserve the ball, play it simple and run around a little? Yeah, Thiago could do that. Gini's been a really good player, but his role in this side has been extremely limited and conservative. 

[Chris]

19 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

You mean conserve the ball, play it simple and run around a little? Yeah, Thiago could do that. Gini's been a really good player, but his role in this side has been extremely limited and conservative. 

Gini covered more ground than all but 20 premier league players last season. This lad's fucked after half an hour.

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11996016/premier-league-running-stats-this-season-revealed

 

Also, you're oversimplifying his role. Gini is so key to us regaining possession and getting back on the front foot. Not sure I've seen Thiago win the ball back once. 

 

EDIT: In summary, offload Thiago and give Gini a chunk of his money. 

[Grinch]

Thiago can definitely do the simple things but the reason he's been so shit is we're missing the midfielders that do the simple things. 

 

Real headscratcher.

[3 Stacks]

39 minutes ago, Chris said:

Gini covered more ground than all but 20 premier league players last season. This lad's fucked after half an hour.

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11996016/premier-league-running-stats-this-season-revealed

 

Also, you're oversimplifying his role. Gini is so key to us regaining possession and getting back on the front foot. Not sure I've seen Thiago win the ball back once. 

 

EDIT: In summary, offload Thiago and give Gini a chunk of his money. 

Sorry, but this whole post is absolute rubbish.

[Chris]

6 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Sorry, but this whole post is absolute rubbish.

 

I'm not here to argue (anymore), but you mean the actual facts about the amount of ground Thiago would have to cover to fill in Gini's role, as you suggest. Amazing how you've distilled Wijnaldum's contribution down to retaining the ball and running about a bit. 
 

I'm not a Gary Neville fan at all, but he recently called him the most underrated player in the entire PL. Ironic that his role may be filled by the most overrated player in Europe. 

 

Anyway, as you were.

[Duff Man]

3 hours ago, Barrington Womble said:

he was a regular. list loads of other good players all you like, you said he was "a bit part player". He had won 3 european cups before being replaced by the best player in the world. i am pretty sure he won most of those titles without Zidane and Makelele (perhaps they played in the last one of the 3). He was feeding off chances made by steve mcmanaman. 

 

and monaco schmonaco ... that's the point. how often do they turn up in champions league finals? yet they did when morientes was playing for them. morientes was a wonderful footballer, but by the time he joined us he was not at the point of learning, he was a finished product in decline, the the game here was way, way too fast for him. 

Yep, some of his best seasons were pre-galactico era. He was a really good player in his pomp.

[3 Stacks]

19 minutes ago, Chris said:

 

I'm not here to argue (anymore), but you mean the actual facts about the amount of ground Thiago would have to cover to fill in Gini's role, as you suggest. Amazing how you've distilled Wijnaldum's contribution down to retaining the ball and running about a bit. 
 

I'm not a Gary Neville fan at all, but he recently called him the most underrated player in the entire PL. Ironic that his role may be filled by the most overrated player in Europe. 

 

Anyway, as you were.

You said you'd never seen Thiago win the ball back once, meanwhile he's statistically the most frequent ball winner in our midfield. So yeah, if you're too lazy to even look that up and also say he can't cover ground when he and Kimmich did so at a world class level in the Champions League last season and just want to talk baseless nonsense, then yeah, we have nothing to talk about. 

 

Also yes, Gini's role is essentially to keep the ball and run. He doesn't tackle, doesn't pass it forward much, doesn't score or assist much. Sorry, that's just what it is. 

 

[TheHowieLama]

1 hour ago, Chris said:

Gini covered more ground than all but 20 premier league players last season. This lad's fucked after half an hour.

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11996016/premier-league-running-stats-this-season-revealed

 

Also, you're oversimplifying his role. Gini is so key to us regaining possession and getting back on the front foot. Not sure I've seen Thiago win the ball back once. 

 

That is the total you are citing - it is cumulative. He played in every game league game but one so he would have a very high total.

The stat you would be looking for is the per game - he is not in the top 100 there. Milner is a few times, Henderson a couple. Thiago has chalked up multiple 13k games - not that it truly matters.

 

Second part you combine so much right with so much wrong in one sentence that I doff my cap to you.