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Thiago Alcantara


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3 hours ago, No2 said:

Thiago is a problem right now, the last shield we have before getting at our inadequate CB's is a 5ft nothing, 9 stone La Masia graduate still adapting to the English game. He has lost more 50/50s in the last 3 games than Fab has in 3 years. Its not his fault, he has been up against giants and been left in situations were he would normally draw a foul in Germany or Spain but in England the refs think he needs toughening up. He also has CB's behind him that are reluctant to thread balls through the lines, he's invariably heading to the flanks to pick up safe passes.

 

He will be a superstar but not until we get Fab beside him or Virgil behind him.


He wins far more in the air than Henderson and Milner. A bit more than Wijnaldum and slightly less than Fabinho.

I do agree that Thiago needs adapting to the team, and possibly the other way round.

 

But some, or most, of the criticism he gets is just wrong. Henderson is a pretty tall lad, does that make it okay that he hardly ever wins a header?

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18 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:


He wins far more in the air than Henderson and Milner. A bit more than Wijnaldum and slightly less than Fabinho.

I do agree that Thiago needs adapting to the team, and possibly the other way round.

 

But some, or most, of the criticism he gets is just wrong. Henderson is a pretty tall lad, does that make it okay that he hardly ever wins a header?

Thiago definitely reads the game better, he wins a lot of uncontested headers by positioning himself well. My point was when he ends up in a physical duel he generally loses it.

 

The Henderson thing is interesting, I'd never really noticed it before.

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The issue Thiago has, defensively, is that he is slow. He is decent at anticipating and nicking balls but on the occasions where he doesn't get it right, he has no chance of getting back in. He'll be fine as a 6 in games where the opposition are being pretty negative, but against teams who are looking to counter with pace (like the Mancs) his weaknesses will be very apparent.

 

I don't think Bayern played him on his own as a 6, that tended to be a role for Kimmich.

 

Thiago's strengths are on the ball, obviously. Against Everton he played as the left 8, with Fabinho behind him and he was boss. That's why getting a CB in so important.

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20 minutes ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:


He wins far more in the air than Henderson and Milner. A bit more than Wijnaldum and slightly less than Fabinho.

I do agree that Thiago needs adapting to the team, and possibly the other way round.

 

But some, or most, of the criticism he gets is just wrong. Henderson is a pretty tall lad, does that make it okay that he hardly ever wins a header?

I think Henderson does win his fair share of headers but he does it in the middle of the field as a midfielder. Thiago is taking some incredible stick here but he has hardly,if at all? started a game in midfield alongside Hendo or Fabinho. We would be great if he did.

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Just now, VladimirIlyich said:

I think Henderson does win his fair share of headers but he does it in the middle of the field as a midfielder. Thiago is taking some incredible stick here but he has hardly,if at all? started a game in midfield alongside Hendo or Fabinho. We would be great if he did.

That was the midfield in the Derby and he was superb.

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1 minute ago, No2 said:

Thiago definitely reads the game better, he wins a lot of uncontested headers by positioning himself well. My point was when he ends up in a physical duel he generally loses it.

 

The Henderson thing is interesting, I'd never really noticed it before.


You’re probably right about him winning some of the aerials due to reading the game better than most players. But he also wins a surprisingly high number of what I’d label 50/50s in the air.

 

And do start paying attention to the number of headers Henderson wins. Or maybe you shouldn’t, I think it’s a fair chance you’ll be disappointed or even a bit pissed off.

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5 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

I think Henderson does win his fair share of headers but he does it in the middle of the field as a midfielder. Thiago is taking some incredible stick here but he has hardly,if at all? started a game in midfield alongside Hendo or Fabinho. We would be great if he did.


The stick Thiago is getting is ridiculous. I wrote in the match thread yesterday at half time, no matter how low they defend, we should try to play it in behind them and make them work face to their own goal. Have a look at the chance Milner blasted over the bar, how it happened and who played the pass in behind. He does this all the time, and it’s all been wasted so far more or less by his team mates.

 

He’s not been perfect, and he still needs time to get used to his new surroundings. And them to get used to him.

But a world class midfielder that can play all positions in midfield, and play them well, is around page 24 in our list of problems.

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1 hour ago, Joey8FrogsLegs said:


The stick Thiago is getting is ridiculous. I wrote in the match thread yesterday at half time, no matter how low they defend, we should try to play it in behind them and make them work face to their own goal. Have a look at the chance Milner blasted over the bar, how it happened and who played the pass in behind. He does this all the time, and it’s all been wasted so far more or less by his team mates.

 

He’s not been perfect, and he still needs time to get used to his new surroundings. And them to get used to him.

But a world class midfielder that can play all positions in midfield, and play them well, is around page 24 in our list of problems.

This is another difference between Thiago and what he have already. Henderson will play balls over the top that he knows we will lose 99% of the time, they are designed to let defenders have it in areas they're not comfortable in and we pounce. I can't see Thiago deliberately passing it to the opposition, Curtis Jones is another with this issue. He's very safe, probably too safe in possession of the ball. Let the likes of Maguire have it facing his own goal and then take it off him.  Most of our best chances yesterday came from dispossessing them high up the pitch. I think Thiago was brought in, particularly with this season in mind, to move away from that hectic style and keep the ball more and reduce sprints. The timing of his introduction has just been awful.

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24 minutes ago, Stickman said:

He’s only played about 5 or 6 games and been out for a few months after nearly having his leg snapped in two so how about giving him a chance ?

He also had COVID too, is playing in a different league, started as an 8 and has had to change to a 6.

 

When you take everything into consideration it's no surprise that we haven't seen the best of him yet.

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50 minutes ago, Stickman said:

He’s only played about 5 or 6 games and been out for a few months after nearly having his leg snapped in two so how about giving him a chance ?

 

Nah, fuck that. 

He has ruined my dinner for the last month. 

 

 

All joking aside he has been good when we have a functioning 11. Needs to get used to the PL though otherwise he'll be giving away free kicks let right and centre, through Lucas-like tackles. 

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3 hours ago, Strontium Dog™ said:

Yes, I hate to sound like a broken record, but the issues with Thiago all stem from the lack of proper centre backs. Thiago is never going to be a Fabinho or even a Henderson. It's like trying to off-road in a Rolls-Royce.

Spot on. We won’t see the best from him until we get our full midfield back together. Move him up the pitch. It’s doing us in having to play Fab at the back. Just don’t understand why we never got another CB over the summer with Matips injury record. 

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5 hours ago, 3 Stacks said:

He can play as the #6, but what he needs in that case is a functioning system. He should not have to be plugging gaps and running back towards his goal non stop because we're getting caught out with players up the pitch all the time. It's no surprise he won't look his best in those circumstances. For us, he'd probably be best in Gini's position anyway, but he should absolutely still be an option as the deepest midfielder as well. We just need to get our shit together.

 

If Toni Kroos was left 1v1 against the likes of Rashford, he wouldn't look good either but that's not a commentary on any lack of ability Kroos may have, it's a commentary on the failure of a system.

 

And yes, he's not been at his best either. He has still been good in many ways, though.

Plugging gaps and running back to your own goal is a function of a number 6 in this team. It's why fabinho has been great there, he does all that well, as well as being able to pass a bit and do his share of winning it high. This actually has always been the discussion of this midfield - does the functional, high paced nature of the midfield allow the others to play. I think we're seeing the answer to that right now. 

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40 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Plugging gaps and running back to your own goal is a function of a number 6 in this team. It's why fabinho has been great there, he does all that well, as well as being able to pass a bit and do his share of winning it high. This actually has always been the discussion of this midfield - does the functional, high paced nature of the midfield allow the others to play. I think we're seeing the answer to that right now. 

Fabinho was poor when he started. Same questions about how slow he looked. We should not discount Thiago as an option in that position. Although, again as we already have Fabinho, he wouldn't have to play there anyway when we have fit centre backs. He'll likely replace Wijnaldum in the long run. 

 

 

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Interesting to hear Arlo White and Lee Dixon drooling over Thiago tonight.  They were saying that nobody passes the ball like him: not just that he's better, but that he has a different technique.  Dixon was saying that he caresses the ball as if he's got hands instead of feet.  White was saying that, in an empty stadium, where you can hear the ball being kicked, it makes a different sound when Thiago passes it.

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