Thiago Alcantara

[The Guest]

6 minutes ago, magicrat said:

Given the fees will be similar why does it make any financial difference to Liverpool wait a season to do these transfers ?  Not having Gini around for a year, with his mind on Barca ,would seem a good reason to get them done asap. Of course it could be Barca fucking about trying to delay it all until next summer but given they're desperate for new blood I doubt it.

It might be down to the players.  They obviously get big signing on fees because the club is saving on the transfer fee.

[BeefStroganoff]

6 minutes ago, scudger99 said:

Fan backlash basically being you on here crying.  Just another day then.

Nah the tide is slowly turning. Expect FSG to sell up when Jurgen leaves. He's the golden goose.

[magicrat]

Just now, The Guest said:

It might be down to the players.  They obviously get big signing on fees because the club is saving on the transfer fee.

Possible but I doubt it.  The players can get some other sweeteners to compensate . 

[TheHowieLama]

45 minutes ago, The Guest said:

It might be down to the players.  They obviously get big signing on fees because the club is saving on the transfer fee.

Yea, the difference to Wiji would be massive if he waits til January

[3 Stacks]

1 hour ago, The Guest said:

It might be down to the players.  They obviously get big signing on fees because the club is saving on the transfer fee.

Bayern are obviously desperate to get a fee because they won't shut the fuck up about expecting a bid. Is Thiago going to absolutely insist on staying and signing a pre-contract somewhere else? I doubt it. I think he'd want to help Bayern, they've had a good ride together, etc... I think if we don't get on it, he'll accept going somewhere else. 

[The Guest]

1 hour ago, magicrat said:

Possible but I doubt it.  The players can get some other sweeteners to compensate . 

If Liverpool or another club pay 30m to Bayern then Thiago has less bargaining power for his wages/signing on fee than if he sits there and goes on a free.  No sweeteners are going to replace 10m quid or whatever it is that he would receive from the club he goes to if he leaves Bayern on a free.  The same goes for Wijnaldum.

[Barrington Womble]

1 hour ago, magicrat said:

Given the fees will be similar why does it make any financial difference to Liverpool wait a season to do these transfers ?  Not having Gini around for a year, with his mind on Barca ,would seem a good reason to get them done asap. Of course it could be Barca fucking about trying to delay it all until next summer but given they're desperate for new blood I doubt it.

Well Gini is ready for the season, thiago isn't, he's on holiday. We've a tough season ahead, chamberlain and Henderson injured, having Gini for the opening games will be crucial. Personally I think this could all happen right on the deadline. 

[scudger99]

1 hour ago, BeefStroganoff said:

Nah the tide is slowly turning. Expect FSG to sell up when Jurgen leaves. He's the golden goose.

The more successful we become, the more the fans turn on FSG ?  Maybe in your head, but I don't see it anywhere else.

And Klopp may just be the golden egg, but it wouldn't matter who owned the club.  You would still be on here harping and moaning.  The club isn't the problem, neither are the managers.  Your own skewed pattern of thought is the problem.  You wallow in negativity, even when the club's at it's most successful point this century.

 

[3 Stacks]

5 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

Well Gini is ready for the season, thiago isn't, he's on holiday. We've a tough season ahead, chamberlain and Henderson injured, having Gini for the opening games will be crucial. Personally I think this could all happen right on the deadline. 

Yep. Another month of Romano articles stating "Bayern are waiting for a bid in the coming days". Might shoot myself. 

[The Guest]

7 minutes ago, 3 Stacks said:

Bayern are obviously desperate to get a fee because they won't shut the fuck up about expecting a bid. Is Thiago going to absolutely insist on staying and signing a pre-contract somewhere else? I doubt it. I think he'd want to help Bayern, they've had a good ride together, etc... I think if we don't get on it, he'll accept going somewhere else. 

Why would Thiago want to help them out if he really wants to go to Liverpool but they price him out?  They aren’t helping him.  Players sign a contract to play football and get paid for it.  The idea that they then also owe the club something more is laughable.  I could get the idea if it was a youth team player for a small club who relied on those players not screwing them over but this isn’t Thiago.  When they bought him and gave him a contract they knew the consequences.

 

My original point was that the club will know what Thiago wants to do.  Edwards and Klopp will have said to him this is the way we are going to try to sign you and Thiago will have told them whether he’s up for it and/or willing to wait etc.  If they want him bad enough they will know the furthest point they are willing to go to in terms of price.  As long as Thiago is willing to sit there if I was Edwards the plan would be to go as late in the window as possible and say to them here is the bid accept it or we will see you in January with half of it to see if you want that.  If you try and do that early in the window they’ve got plenty of wiggle room and you’ve showed your hand.

[Arnaud]

1 hour ago, The Guest said:

Klopp and Edwards aren’t stupid.  They will know exactly what Thiago wants to do and how late they can leave it because they will have told him how the club plan on going to sign him if that’s what they plan on doing at all.

 

The most obvious thing to me seems to be that Thiago is going to stay there another season just as Gini will here and then they both move at the same time for free.  Thiago hasn’t said a word throughout this whole thing.  Bayern are constantly talking and briefing the media about how he has to be sold this year, the price he has to be sold at, how they expect the bid from Liverpool, Man City and now Man Utd, how he was waking around the stadium with his family which was a symbolic farewell.  It’s never ending from them as they try to drum up business for his sale.  The reality is he can just refuse to go anywhere and walk out for free.  What may happen is that United or somebody come in and offer him a lot more money than us like the Werner situation but that could happen at any point anyway.  I wouldn’t be surprised to see if we are waiting to see if this happens and if it does we then offer Gini a four year deal.

Spot on,  except for the 4 year contract obviously. I reckon that’s the main issue, he wants safety like 3 years, and we might just want to offer a 2 year deal, who knows.

 

He may want to play first team football and with T. Alcantara he may be thinking let’s go somewhere wise where I can get more money and more minutes ?

[dockers_strike]

These transfers are nearly always a game of 3 way brinkmanship between the 2 clubs and even the player. I guess it's 4 way or more if you include the agents. Touch of the Monty Python Spanish inquisition sketch there!

 

 

[3 Stacks]

1 minute ago, The Guest said:

Why would Thiago want to help them out if he really wants to go to Liverpool but they price him out?  They aren’t helping him.  Players sign a contract to play football and get paid for it.  The idea that they then also owe the club something more is laughable.  I could get the idea if it was a youth team player for a small club who relied on those players not screwing them over but this isn’t Thiago.  When they bought him and gave him a contract they knew the consequences.

 

My original point was that the club will know what Thiago wants to do.  Edwards and Klopp will have said to him this is the way we are going to try to sign you and Thiago will have told them whether he’s up for it and/or willing to wait etc.  If they want him bad enough they will know the furthest point they are willing to go to in terms of price.  As long as Thiago is willing to sit there if I was Edwards the plan would be to go as late in the window as possible and say to them here is the bid accept it or we will see you in January with half of it to see if you want that.  If you try and do that early in the window they’ve got plenty of wiggle room and you’ve showed your hand.

I don't think they've priced him out. The fee is like 30m, pretty reasonable for anyone to pay considering his quality. And you know Bayern would be pleading to him to go this window. 

 

I agree with you on the second paragraph, of course the club has a plan, but the problem is that players change their minds on this type of stuff all the time. Behind the scenes, there are probably "betrayals" of that nature all the time. Players and clubs giving their word about something and then all of a sudden, whoops, changed my mind, felt like taking this other offer. 

[El Dangerous]

As much as I’d like Bayern to get fucked over losing a top player for free when that’s their usual method of acquiring top players I don’t see how a 29 year old in his last couple of prime years potentially sitting out one of those years winding his contract down is beneficial to anyone.

[TheHowieLama]

16 minutes ago, El Dangerous said:

As much as I’d like Bayern to get fucked over losing a top player for free when that’s their usual method of acquiring top players I don’t see how a 29 year old in his last couple of prime years potentially sitting out one of those years winding his contract down is beneficial to anyone.

Why would he be sitting out?

[BeefStroganoff]

46 minutes ago, scudger99 said:

The more successful we become, the more the fans turn on FSG ?  Maybe in your head, but I don't see it anywhere else.

And Klopp may just be the golden egg, but it wouldn't matter who owned the club.  You would still be on here harping and moaning.  The club isn't the problem, neither are the managers.  Your own skewed pattern of thought is the problem.  You wallow in negativity, even when the club's at it's most successful point this century.

 

No i don't. I expect the Club to be successful. I expect the Club to be run for the team first and profit second. Thats why my principles don't align with theirs. I was brought up watching a team winning on the pitch.

 

If being ' a well run club' is your mantra fine. Its been a long road back and I want us to stay there, not to just be a flash in the pan.

 

There is zero skewed with my thought patterns. I have been consistent about them since they came in. H&G where shysters. These are just Shysters with a plan. Their plan wasn't  working before Jurgen got here and it won't be working when he leaves. They have consistently run us on a fiscal system, the bottom line is they don't like spending their own money, which is fine, but not paying for the stadium out of their own pocket is shite, and costs us on the pitch.

 

These loons will be quite happy to see us come in the top four as long as their asset holds and they retain their profits.The only bonus they get from winning pots is that increases the marketability and reach of the Club and it increases broadcast rights.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they have quite happily accepted top four this year basking off the back of a win.

[Barrington Womble]

3 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Why would he be sitting out?

I'm pretty sure Bayern have said they want him out, so there's every chance they'll plan for the season without him - it would seem unlikely they'll wait till deadline day and hope for the best. Not every side has to wait till to sell to someone to buy someone. So if Bayern move on (and why wouldn't they?), is thiago going to be happy kicking around the fringes waiting for an injury crisis?

 

I don't see thiago being a Bayern player at the end of the current window. Either we'll find a way to do the deal or someone else will. 

[TheHowieLama]

Just now, Barrington Womble said:

I don't see thiago being a Bayern player at the end of the current window. Either we'll find a way to do the deal or someone else will. 

If he is not then the conversation is moot.

If he is, the assumption that the fella would down tools is a little off. The idea that Bayern would not play him if he is still their player is even more far fetched.

Coutinho agitated for a move big time - once the window closed he played to the utmost of his abilities.

[Barnesey]

5 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Coutinho agitated for a move big time - once the window closed he played to the utmost of his abilities.

When his bad back allowed

[TheHowieLama]

3 minutes ago, Barnesey said:

When his bad back allowed

He played every game once the window closed and was easily our best player.

[Barnesey]

Better than Mo?

[El Dangerous]

29 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

Why would he be sitting out?

It happens all the time. Player refuses new contract, manager decides to use players he deems are 100% committed and not with one eye on their next move. Obviously there’s no guarantee that’s what would happen here and we’ve seen ourselves that it’s not always the case as with Can. 

[TheHowieLama]

8 minutes ago, Barnesey said:

Better than Mo?

Good shout - I don't remember Salah starting out on fire. He got hot a little later on I think but good point. Every thing went through Coutinho for those couple of months.

[Barrington Womble]

25 minutes ago, TheHowieLama said:

If he is not then the conversation is moot.

If he is, the assumption that the fella would down tools is a little off. The idea that Bayern would not play him if he is still their player is even more far fetched.

Coutinho agitated for a move big time - once the window closed he played to the utmost of his abilities.

I don't mean he'll down tools, although with his last contract months away, there's every chance he's not so committed. I just think Bayern will  move on and he'll be replaced if he leaves or not. We played coutinho because it was in our interests to do so to get the fee we wanted from Barca. Coutinho was incentivised to give his all to push Barca over the line to complete the move. It's completely different. 

 

I don't think thiago is agitating at all. He's just told Bayern he won't sign a new contract and would like a new challenge. They've said they'd like a fee rather than him going on a bosman, it would appear both Bayern and Thiago are in sync and they've had a grown up conversation about it. Their issue is there appears no willing buyer that matches both Bayern's and Thiago's requirements. There's every chance we never meet Bayern's requirements and if that means he stays, there's nothing Bayern can do. But it wouldn't seem unreasonable if they've already replaced thiago, in fact it seems logical, because if he doesn't go now he is in 12 months. So in that situation, there's every chance thiago is left kicking his heals because he becomes surplus to requirements at Bayern. If thiago doesn't get a move, I would expect him not to be greatly involved. 

 

To me that seems the least likely outcome because both thiago and Bayern want something to happen now. I think the most likely are as follows

 

1. He joins us because we've sold Gini or some of Wilson/gruic/Shaq

2. We fail to come in on time for him and he jumps to another club as he doesn't think we'll do a deal. 

3. We've committed to him we'll do the deal regardless, but he's got to sit it out till the end of the window and refuse to go anywhere. Although as we saw with Michael Owen all those years ago, that doesn't always work out as you planned.

4. No deal is struck between a club willing to pay the asking price that meets Thiago's requirement of a destination and he's stuck there. 

 

 

 

[TheHowieLama]

Bazzie -- they wanted to keep him and by all accounts was the lynchpin of their best season in years. 

I agree that it is most likely he will go - but if he doesn't he will play. He's world class - remember?