Universal Basic Income

[Numero Veinticinco]

16 minutes ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

 

Looking forward to seeing the details of that proposal. Is it done already or is this just a vote for a policy to be written? 

[Section_31]

Cynical shift to the left to attract what they think will be disgruntled labour voters, if labour goes to the left again they will of course, shift to the centre.

 

Brought to you by the party that claimed to oppose Brexit yet virtually handed Johnson a majority and made a hard Brexit a certainty, all in the hopes of getting a half dozen new MPs. Also the party that enabled the Tory austerity agenda.  

 

Starmer will be the end of the Lib Dems, love him or loathe him, you've got to doff your cap to him for that.

[cloggypop]

I hope they have more success with it than proportional representation, staying in the EU and legalising cannabis. 

[Section_31]

[Sugar Ape]

4 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

[Section_31]

Osborne's got the boobs of a late blooming vicar's daughter, and is equally as proud.

[Mudface]

12 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Cynical shift to the left to attract what they think will be disgruntled labour voters, if labour goes to the left again they will of course, shift to the centre.

 

Brought to you by the party that claimed to oppose Brexit yet virtually handed Johnson a majority and made a hard Brexit a certainty, all in the hopes of getting a half dozen new MPs. Also the party that enabled the Tory austerity agenda.  

 

Starmer will be the end of the Lib Dems, love him or loathe him, you've got to doff your cap to him for that.

Now now, I'm sure they'll take it as seriously as their student fees pledge if God help us they ever get the chance to be part of a government again.

[cloggypop]

3 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Osborne's got the boobs of a late blooming vicar's daughter, and is equally as proud.

Amazing 

[Section_31]

1 minute ago, Mudface said:

Now now, I'm sure they'll take it as seriously as their student fees pledge if God help us they ever get the chance to be part of a government again.

The next government will consist of labour, the SNP, and two Lib Dems from Cornwall who'll have the deciding vote on everything. 

 

Each meeting will consist of Starmer forensically breaking down the details of policies, followed by Sturgeon just saying: "For fuck's sake just sign the fucking thing." 

[Strontium]

A political topic devolves into baseless attacks on liberals, that was unpredictable.

[Rico1304]

Predictable.  

[Numero Veinticinco]

46 minutes ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

A political topic devolves into baseless attacks on liberals, that was unpredictable.

I didn’t attack anyone, I just asked a question. Probably too blinded by Osborne’s moobs to see it, tbf. 

[Strontium]

4 minutes ago, Nummer Neunzehn said:

I didn’t attack anyone, I just asked a question. Probably too blinded by Osborne’s moobs to see it, tbf. 

 

Well I wasn't referring to you. And in answer to your question, I don't know how much detail there is at the moment.

 

I'm sure there's plenty of ideas floating around as UBI was Lib Dem policy from 1990-94, although back then nobody was describing it as a cynical shift to the left.

 

But of course UBI is full-on socialism, which is why it was supported by those hardcore lefties Milton Friedman and Friedrich Hayek.

[Bobby Hundreds]

Thing is does UBI remove the things we pay for through tax. What good is a low wage or added wage from the government if you have to pay out for private health care/insurance, the police, the fire brigade all public services. The US health care system alone scares the shit out me. Cunts like Jim ratcliffe with more money than they can spend in a 1000 life times already dont want to pay tax that would fund hospitals, public services that would improve lives and the country let alone welfare. 

 

There seems to be little motivation  from power to improve anything other than pockets already full. Poverty, education, health, the environment, the future, housing, renewable energy the list is endless. Half arsed gestures yet they hand out vast sums of money to continuingly failing companies like sweeties to their grand kids. They're building their own nests ready for the shit storm future they have built.

 

Nobody in politics gives me optimism. Its the same tired old shit, we cant even changed our outdated systems in this country. House of fucking Lords... leeches.

[Numero Veinticinco]

8 hours ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

 

Well I wasn't referring to you. And in answer to your question, I don't know how much detail there is at the moment.

 

I'm sure there's plenty of ideas floating around as UBI was Lib Dem policy from 1990-94, although back then nobody was describing it as a cynical shift to the left.

 

But of course UBI is full-on socialism, which is why it was supported by those hardcore lefties Milton Friedman and Friedrich Hayek.

I’m honestly over the whole left/centre/right mud slinging. These terms have been trampled all over for years. What I’m interested in is how effective a policy is, and without detail it’s just wind. Lots of people talk about UBI and how they support it without ever really detailing what they support or how much it will cost, how much it will be, and what will it replace. Until those plans are detailed, it’s just saying a thing. If it’s just saying a thing, it does seem cynical. Where that’s a cynical lurch toward depends on the details. 

[Rico1304]

There is a thread where Stronts gets tons of shit for suggesting this.  Anyway…

 

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-firms-begin-worlds-biggest-four-day-week-trial-with-no-loss-of-pay-12628545

[VladimirIlyich]

15 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

There is a thread where Stronts gets tons of shit for suggesting this.  Anyway…

 

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-firms-begin-worlds-biggest-four-day-week-trial-with-no-loss-of-pay-12628545

And Jeremy Corbyn was a Communist for even suggesting it!

[Jose Jones]

I seem to remember Stronts got shit for his sunny optimistic view of the world, rather than the actual idea of a 3 day week itself.

[VladimirIlyich]

I can't imagine there wont be some catches to this scheme in its current form.

[Bruce Spanner]

48 minutes ago, VladimirIlyich said:

And Jeremy Corbyn was a Communist for even suggesting it!

It is a communist policy, well increasing leisure time and reducing working hours until full automation, so rightly he would be called a Commie.

 

I swear there needs to be a communism 101 for about 95% of the modern ‘left’.

[Scooby Dudek]

1 hour ago, Bruce Spanner said:

It is a communist policy, well increasing leisure time and reducing working hours until full automation, so rightly he would be called a Commie.

 

I swear there needs to be a communism 101 for about 95% of the modern ‘left’.

I wouldn't quite compare Labour policy in the manifesto to full automation;

 

As society got richer, we could spend fewer hours at work. But in recent decades progress has stalled.

 

"People in our country today work the longest average full-time hours in Europe apart from Greece and Austria.

 

"And since the 1980s the link between increasing productivity matched by expanding free time has been broken.

 

"It's time to put that right."

 

There would not be a French-style cap on weekly working hours, instead progress to the 32-hour goal would be assessed based on the annual average figure compiled by the Office for National Statistics.

 

The average working week was 37.1 hours last year, according to ONS figures

[Bruce Spanner]

6 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

I wouldn't quite compare Labour policy in the manifesto to full automation;

 

As society got richer, we could spend fewer hours at work. But in recent decades progress has stalled.

 

"People in our country today work the longest average full-time hours in Europe apart from Greece and Austria.

 

"And since the 1980s the link between increasing productivity matched by expanding free time has been broken.

 

"It's time to put that right."

 

There would not be a French-style cap on weekly working hours, instead progress to the 32-hour goal would be assessed based on the annual average figure compiled by the Office for National Statistics.

 

The average working week was 37.1 hours last year, according to ONS figures

The aim is always towards a leisure society through automation as much as possible with the spoils divided fairly, be it incrementally or not, the principle remains and that principle was first laid out by Marx as we move from socialism to communism fully. 

[Scooby Dudek]

6 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

The aim is always towards a leisure society through automation, be it incrementally or not, the principle remains and that principle was first laid out by Marx as we move from socialism to communism fully. 

I don't disagree but I don't believe people who support reducing the working week by a few hours are secretly pushing for communism. 

 

Whilst it may well be communist 101, the two are not related imo. A lot of people calling Corbyn a communist for that policy, I would wager haven't read much Marx either.

 

Coincidentally, reading yesterday the Reform party want to abolish the house of Lords. I also want to abolish the house of Lords, doesn't make me a Reformist. *

 

 

 

* Actually it does make me a Reformist but not in relation to that party 

[Bruce Spanner]

21 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

I don't disagree but I don't believe people who support reducing the working week by a few hours are secretly pushing for communism. 

 

Whilst it may well be communist 101, the two are not related imo. A lot of people calling Corbyn a communist for that policy, I would wager haven't read much Marx either.

 

Coincidentally, reading yesterday the Reform party want to abolish the house of Lords. I also want to abolish the house of Lords, doesn't make me a Reformist. 

 

Me either, but it is a communist ideal and one that would see life through socialism gains, it’s not too much of a stretch to apply it, however incrementally we’re heading towards it. That’s the curse of the left, right, we’re tied to our ghosts?
 

A lot of those that would defend him won’t have either, that was the point I was making as people propel themselves to evermore smug standpoints and defences which are completely removed from the actual ideological framework. 
 

High five on being a reformist!

[Ezekiel 25:17]

I have the option to work 4 days under a new roll out with my company but it's condensed hours, not sure if I'll go for it.