Keir Starmer

[HazelyCosmicJove]

58 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

nv has engaged with you on countless occasions..even when you are clearly trying to wind people up 

My view is 180 degrees the other way.

[clockspeed]

8 hours ago, an tha said:

 

As it happens on balance with the example you have brought up I support the WFA call based on - So many pensioners simply not needing it - The fact that they are protected by the triple lock - The pension credits thing being in place to help those in most need.

 

All that said the real trick here is to get the price of energy under control and the bills down - that has to be a priority.

 

But I see no reason at all pensioners should be excluded from bearing some of the burden of helping to fix the mess left behind by 14 years of the tories gross negligence. 

Folks we really need to push and help those in need ref the pensions credit application . Yes it is hard to wade through but as an example this is what can happen and it blows the winter fuel payments out of the water  . 

 

Bed bound neighbour (carers twice a day ) getting pension . Filled in paperwork he was getting 18 quid a month pensions credit additional . Applied for an attendance allowance for another neighbour who checked on him and helped out when carers not there . Got it and he gave to neighbour . Then because he was on pensions credit and attendance was approved he then starts getting an additional amount of 88 quid per month pensions credit  automatically because attendance allowance was approved. 

 

Everyone will be different and I am not saying taking the winter fuel allowance away was correct but some good can come of it if those in need get help with applying for pensions credit . 

[Arniepie]

5 minutes ago, clockspeed said:

Folks we really need to push and help those in need ref the pensions credit application . Yes it is hard to wade through but as an example this is what can happen and it blows the winter fuel payments out of the water  . 

 

Bed bound neighbour (carers twice a day ) getting pension . Filled in paperwork he was getting 18 quid a month pensions credit additional . Applied for an attendance allowance for another neighbour who checked on him and helped out when carers not there . Got it and he gave to neighbour . Then because he was on pensions credit and attendance was approved he then starts getting an additional amount of 88 quid per month pensions credit  automatically because attendance allowance was approved. 

 

Everyone will be different and I am not saying taking the winter fuel allowance away was correct but some good can come of it if those in need get help with applying for pensions credit . 

ive noticed they have started putting adverts out now,telling people to apply for it

[HazelyCosmicJove]

26 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Rico was a cunt (like many of us here) but if you asked him to back up a claim, he would at least give an honest attempt at doing so. I have no issue with being called a twat, as long as when somebody claims something they have the intention to back it up or retract it. If they’re not willing to do that, and hide behind insults, they’re just a troll and not worth engaging because they can’t be reasoned with. 
 

If the conversation resembles the following: there’s absolutely no point engaging because they’re just stuck in a loop of idiocy while thinking they’re super smart and nobody else is worthy. 

 

The world is flat.

 

Okay, any proof because I disagree?

 

You’re just too thick to understand it. 
 

Okay, fine, I’m thick. Help me out by showing proof? 
 

No, you’re a twat. 
 

Okay, fine, I’m a twat. It seems like you can’t back up your claim.

 

I can, I just don’t want it to. 
 

Sigh. You daft twat. 
 

OMG I can believe you insulted me. 
 

Really?

I do have an issue with being called a twat.

I do have an issue with someone telling me that I must do something. Who do you think you are? What makes you think you have the right to dictate the rules?

 

If the conversation resembles the following: there’s absolutely no point engaging because they’re just stuck in a loop of idiocy while thinking they’re super smart and nobody else is worthy. 

 

"They have cancelled WFA that is bad"

"It is good because rich people"

"But some really poor people will suffer"

"It is good because rich people"

"Some may even die"

"It is good because rich people"

"You are putting dogma before people's lives"

"It is good because rich people"

 

A different view of the same events.

[Numero Veinticinco]

51 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

ive noticed they have started putting adverts out now,telling people to apply for it

Yeah, that’s good. There so many unclaimed benefits that people are eligible for. 

[an tha]

1 hour ago, HazelyCosmicJove said:

Go back and read your previous post (re: bandwagons, people who aren't affected etc) now tell me if you are directly affected by WFA withdrawal. If not, it is so hypocritical. 

You are not wrong about getting the price of energy under control but shouldn't that happen before you take away the support for very needy pensioners who fall just outside pension credits?

 

It is not at all hypocritical to express a view about a policy, a policy you brought to the table specifically in responding to a post I made - that is a totally different situation to what I was saying about how people are calling for another GE less than 6 months after a GE, and shouting about how bad Labour are, how bad Starmer is etc and all the stuff about capitalism not governance problems I have talked about as well as the general "anti Lab noise" being peddled by a certain demographic - and I suspect you know this really, bit you are attempting your usual and frankly tired schtick here...

 

As for the WFA wherever you put a line with anything there are people just the other side of it. But on balance, my view is as stated previously it is the right thing to do - it was a deeply flawed thing anyway with it going to all pensioners, that money simply can be put to much better use and IMO should be.

 

I'd like to think that going forward the prices can and will be dealt with and that those who really are in the most need are helped as best as can be. The pensions credit thing appears to be at least a decent start towards that happening.

 

 

 

[Pidge]

You don't have to be a twat, to get called a twat. But he is a twat.

 

Or is he? I actually don't know the guy. 

[Arniepie]

The whole system is broken she says, and he's making things worse - adding that Chancellor Rachel Reeves is "an expert at customer complaints."

Starmer says she's just "read out the charge sheet of the last government", adding "everything is broken". He replies that the opposition only come to PMQs every week with "nothing to offer except complaints".

 

she is fucking clueless

we broke everything and you havent fixed it in 6 months.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Playing into the ‘she was just a cashier’ stuff on social media. 

[Strontium]

2 hours ago, Section_31 said:

The lack of different views things is bollocks, it's trolling people can't abide and you know exactly what you're doing.

 

I think SD is a great poster and we're polar opposite on many issues, my politics has also diverged from Anubis, Mal and Jairz in the last few years and I respect their opinions immensely. It's not remotely an echo chamber.

 

There was a poster called Catch_22 on here many moons ago who had economic views to the right and he was welcomed and discussed things in a way that wasn't designed to just rope a dope people into getting wound up.

 

Its all very odd, cosmic guy and Rico seemed to approach this place with something resembling disdain and most of what they posted was designed to rile, I never understood it at all, surely there's better things to be doing with your life.

 

In fairness I've been called a troll plenty before.

 

Catch 22 was a solid poster, wonder what happened to him.

 

Not that I want to take a position on whether Hazely is trolling or not, but there is a topic on these forums called "Tories - convince me you're not evil". It's a sentiment that is echoed through numerous threads. Things that like could possibly put right-leaning people on a belligerent footing here from the get-go.

[Arniepie]

Just now, Strontium said:

 

In fairness I've been called a troll plenty before.

 

Catch 22 was a solid poster, wonder what happened to him.

 

Not that I want to take a position on whether Hazely is trolling or not, but there is a topic on these forums called "Tories - convince me you're not evil". It's a sentiment that is echoed through numerous threads. Things that like could possibly put right-leaning people on a belligerent footing here from the get-go.

considering its a liverpool forum,I cant say how dismayed I was when I first joined and discovered it wasnt full of tories. 

[Jack the Sipper]

[Arniepie]

1 minute ago, Jack the Sipper said:

get onto patels's face when she says it

[Numero Veinticinco]

She's the second incarnation of Liz Truss. 

[Megadrive Man]

7 minutes ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

Strangely Jeremy Clarkson and Nigel Farage didn't seem to care so much about the farmers back then either.

[Mook]

3 hours ago, Section_31 said:

The lack of different views things is bollocks, it's trolling people can't abide and you know exactly what you're doing.

 

I think SD is a great poster and we're polar opposite on many issues, my politics has also diverged from Anubis, Mal and Jairz in the last few years and I respect their opinions immensely. It's not remotely an echo chamber.

 

There was a poster called Catch_22 on here many moons ago who had economic views to the right and he was welcomed and discussed things in a way that wasn't designed to just rope a dope people into getting wound up.

 

Its all very odd, cosmic guy and Rico seemed to approach this place with something resembling disdain and most of what they posted was designed to rile, I never understood it at all, surely there's better things to be doing with your life.

 

I used the term 'echo chamber' & it wasn't really the correct one.

 

My point was more aimed at the almost unanimous disbelief that there might be some people who aren't mega rich who are unhappy with how the new government have started out. I don't think I've ever had as many notifications as I did yesterday when I mentioned my (Labour voting) mate had sent me that petition to sign.

 

For the record, I think the petition is ridiculous & the alternative to Labour is considerably worse. That does not mean they shouldn't be held to account & every criticism met with 'Yeah but the tories....'.

[Numero Veinticinco]

4 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

I used the term 'echo chamber' & it wasn't really the correct one.

 

My point was more aimed at the almost unanimous disbelief that there might be some people who aren't mega rich who are unhappy with how the new government have started out. I don't think I've ever had as many notifications as I did yesterday when I mentioned my (Labour voting) mate had sent me that petition to sign.

 

For the record, I think the petition is ridiculous & the alternative to Labour is considerably worse. That does not mean they shouldn't be held to account & every criticism met with 'Yeah but the tories....'.

 

I agree with that. They absolutely should be held to account and, even though they have inherited a real shitcunt of a situation, criticism is fair - these people aren't our nan, it isn't a football team to support, they work for us and should do so in the best interests of the nation. That said, I don't think the reason you go so much push back was because people are a Labour shill or there's bias, it's because people know that this only applies to a certain group of people, which is why I had asked if he employs several people. I've no issue with people criticising things that Labour (or the Tories, or the Nazi party, or even the Reform party) for things they have done, but if it's the case that it's a misunderstanding, what's really happening is your mate (if he's not actually eligible) will be voting for somebody like the Tories or Reform for the same reason many people voted for Brexit... a pile of bollocks pushed by special interests. 

[HazelyCosmicJove]

1 hour ago, an tha said:

 

It is not at all hypocritical to express a view about a policy, a policy you brought to the table specifically in responding to a post I made - that is a totally different situation to what I was saying about how people are calling for another GE less than 6 months after a GE, and shouting about how bad Labour are, how bad Starmer is etc and all the stuff about capitalism not governance problems I have talked about as well as the general "anti Lab noise" being peddled by a certain demographic - and I suspect you know this really, bit you are attempting your usual and frankly tired schtick here...

 

As for the WFA wherever you put a line with anything there are people just the other side of it. But on balance, my view is as stated previously it is the right thing to do - it was a deeply flawed thing anyway with it going to all pensioners, that money simply can be put to much better use and IMO should be.

 

I'd like to think that going forward the prices can and will be dealt with and that those who really are in the most need are helped as best as can be. The pensions credit thing appears to be at least a decent start towards that happening.

 

 

 

Here is what you wrote:

"Most of the noise and the 'unhappiness' is coming from rich entitled cunts, greedy employers/businesses and thick people bandwagon jumping and using situations they actually aren't affectd by, understand or are really bothered about - all stirred up by grifters, millionaires and a hostile right wing media.  "

I'm guessing that as you dodged the question you aren't a pensioner. In my view, if that is the case, that makes you a hypocrite.

I don't disagree with your point about giving WFA to rich people and never have. The reason it is set up that way is because it was more expensive to means test it than to give it to everyone. There were no pension credits when it was introduced.

To pretend (or not care?) that some very poor, very vulnerable people are not going to negatively affected is, quite frankly, bordering on the obscene. If that is my "tired schtick" then there isn't anything more to discuss.

[an tha]

13 minutes ago, HazelyCosmicJove said:

Here is what you wrote:

"Most of the noise and the 'unhappiness' is coming from rich entitled cunts, greedy employers/businesses and thick people bandwagon jumping and using situations they actually aren't affectd by, understand or are really bothered about - all stirred up by grifters, millionaires and a hostile right wing media.  "

I'm guessing that as you dodged the question you aren't a pensioner. In my view, if that is the case, that makes you a hypocrite.

I don't disagree with your point about giving WFA to rich people and never have. The reason it is set up that way is because it was more expensive to means test it than to give it to everyone. There were no pension credits when it was introduced.

To pretend (or not care?) that some very poor, very vulnerable people are not going to negatively affected is, quite frankly, bordering on the obscene. If that is my "tired schtick" then there isn't anything more to discuss.

Key word there was "most" - which means not all...

 

You then cherry picked an example of the WFA to attempt to shoot me down - I had not mentioned the WFA or pensioners, but as you brought it and them up, I stated my position on it and them.

 

You are now attempting to frame that as I am not a pensioner so it does not affect me and that makes me the same as the people I was being critical of.....But it does not because I am not shouting for another GE, signing silly petitions and generally cryarsing about every little thing the government are doing - which is the sort of noise I was referencing in my post...

 

You've attempted a bit of whataboutery or some sort of gotcha and it is a bad look and is the 'schtick' i referred to.

[Section_31]

51 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

I used the term 'echo chamber' & it wasn't really the correct one.

 

My point was more aimed at the almost unanimous disbelief that there might be some people who aren't mega rich who are unhappy with how the new government have started out. I don't think I've ever had as many notifications as I did yesterday when I mentioned my (Labour voting) mate had sent me that petition to sign.

 

For the record, I think the petition is ridiculous & the alternative to Labour is considerably worse. That does not mean they shouldn't be held to account & every criticism met with 'Yeah but the tories....'.

 

Yeah it wasn't aimed at you mate.

 

I like having discussions with people who have differing opinions but there's been a handful of people over the years who, while they may not have started that way, just wanted to come on and have a go at "you lot', like we're all some sort of student politics idiots. The other extreme is people spamming fuck out of the place with links to other people's views when they can't back up any views of their own.

[Arniepie]

53 minutes ago, Mook said:

 

I used the term 'echo chamber' & it wasn't really the correct one.

 

My point was more aimed at the almost unanimous disbelief that there might be some people who aren't mega rich who are unhappy with how the new government have started out. I don't think I've ever had as many notifications as I did yesterday when I mentioned my (Labour voting) mate had sent me that petition to sign.

 

For the record, I think the petition is ridiculous & the alternative to Labour is considerably worse. That does not mean they shouldn't be held to account & every criticism met with 'Yeah but the tories....'.

absolutely they should be held to account.

But the media aren’t doing that.

They are holding them to  a completely different set of standards,than they did it with the tories and they have done since day 1.IMHO There has been a collective attempt to undermine and destabilise this government from the day they were elected, from very powerful sources.

This petition is the latest example of thick cunts falling for it.

[HazelyCosmicJove]

22 minutes ago, an tha said:

Key word there was "most" - which means not all...

 

You then cherry picked an example of the WFA to attempt to shoot me down - I had not mentioned the WFA or pensioners, but as you brought it and them up, I stated my position on it and them.

 

You are now attempting to frame that as I am not a pensioner so it does not affect me and that makes me the same as the people I was being critical of.....But it does not because I am not shouting for another GE, signing silly petitions and generally cryarsing about every little thing the government are doing - which is the sort of noise I was referencing in my post...

 

You've attempted a bit of whataboutery or some sort of gotcha and it is a bad look and is the 'schtick' i referred to.

So you are being hypocritical.

I didn't "cherry pick" anything. I picked a topic that directly affects me. Nor did I shout for a GE or sign any stupid petitions.

If you think that is whataboutery or some sort of gotcha then you are free to do so. 

[Arniepie]

getting a sense of deja-vu

[an tha]

22 minutes ago, HazelyCosmicJove said:

So you are being hypocritical.

I didn't "cherry pick" anything. I picked a topic that directly affects me. Nor did I shout for a GE or sign any stupid petitions.

If you think that is whataboutery or some sort of gotcha then you are free to do so. 

You don't get to write my posts.

 

I made the point i wanted to make about the people I wanted to make it about. That did not mention WFA/Pensioners

 

You introduced the WFA and pensioners and then tried to call me a hypocrite even after I indulged you and gave you my view about the WFA and pensioners and why I held it.

 

I never said you did shout for a GE or sign a petition - my post was about the 'noise' that exists generally across twitter, youtube, the comments sections on articles, etc etc - it was not aimed directly at you.

 

There is no hypocrisy here at all from me.

[Denny Crane]

7 hours ago, clockspeed said:

Folks we really need to push and help those in need ref the pensions credit application . Yes it is hard to wade through but as an example this is what can happen and it blows the winter fuel payments out of the water  . 

 

Bed bound neighbour (carers twice a day ) getting pension . Filled in paperwork he was getting 18 quid a month pensions credit additional . Applied for an attendance allowance for another neighbour who checked on him and helped out when carers not there . Got it and he gave to neighbour . Then because he was on pensions credit and attendance was approved he then starts getting an additional amount of 88 quid per month pensions credit  automatically because attendance allowance was approved. 

 

Everyone will be different and I am not saying taking the winter fuel allowance away was correct but some good can come of it if those in need get help with applying for pensions credit . 

 

Well done. Pension credit is bollocks due to a sizable amount missing out and means testing is wank for older people. The government knew around 33% around 800k of those who are entitled to it don't claim due to the stigma of oh its a benefit or not knowing. 

 

The government could have easily put the workload on the energy company by discounting the bill or some variation. Or find the people first then withdraw the WFA. 

 

I worked at the Citizens Advice Bureau when I was a student back in 2008/09 and the experienced advisors that worked there hated means testing for older people due to it being degrading and inefficient.