Keir Starmer

[Arniepie]

If anyone is in doubt over the media bias in this country,I think the last few weeks have confirmed it.

[Red Phoenix]

From The Guardian : I believed Starmer and Reeves were too smart to repeat austerity. It appears I was wrong

[Arniepie]

2 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

From The Guardian : I believed Starmer and Reeves were too smart to repeat austerity. It appears I was wrong

anyone who thinks this is austerity, obviously doesnt remember austerity.

[Section_31]

the interesting - if you can call it that - aspect of our politics at the moment is that the only real opposition is coming from the left of Labour. Most of the alternative debates are around winter fuel payments/two child cap and no more austerity. 

 

The 'right' and 'mainstream' of British politics now seems to consist of moaning about Angela Rayner dancing in Ibiza, David Tennant etc. 

 

Surely this is conclusive proof that what passes for the right now is completely spent, with the exception of raging about bollocks? 

[Arniepie]

26 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

the interesting - if you can call it that - aspect of our politics at the moment is that the only real opposition is coming from the left of Labour. Most of the alternative debates are around winter fuel payments/two child cap and no more austerity. 

 

The 'right' and 'mainstream' of British politics now seems to consist of moaning about Angela Rayner dancing in Ibiza, David Tennant etc. 

 

Surely this is conclusive proof that what passes for the right now is completely spent, with the exception of raging about bollocks? 

I think their main,and only line of attack is immigration.

if labour can somehow address the boat issue the likes of reform and the tories will be left with nothing else besides ranting about how woke dr who has gone. 

[Red Phoenix]

11 hours ago, Arniepie said:

anyone who thinks this is austerity, obviously doesnt remember austerity.

 

Making a bunch of pointless cuts when they can get the money needed from the rich and corps instead does kind of have an austerity vibe to it. They could literally just get the bank of england to print the 22 billion out of thin air yet they're making people suffer and carrying out cuts. It's either austerity, fraud or both.

 

 

Six ways to fund Labour’s “black hole”

[Section_31]

You can see why people fall for populism, it gets to the point where you wonder what the point is of living in a society at all when all it does is degrade around you. It was probably the late noughties the last time I felt like the country had any cash or was actually building anything, now all we do is tear things up and sell them off. Councils literally collapsing, hospital trusts unable to guarantee patient safety, prisons overcrowded, aircraft carriers with no jets.  

 

At the age of 30 I was told this would be 'short term pain' but I'll probably be well into my 50s and still it'll be the same old shit. I'll have lived almost half my life in a collapsing country.

[Arniepie]

13 hours ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Making a bunch of pointless cuts when they can get the money needed from the rich and corps instead does kind of have an austerity vibe to it. They could literally just get the bank of england to print the 22 billion out of thin air yet they're making people suffer and carrying out cuts. It's either austerity, fraud or both.

 

 

Six ways to fund Labour’s “black hole”

the tories closed hundreds of sure start centres, libraries and made youth centres a thing of the past.

they devastated the likes the likes of the police, prison staff and mental health services.

This isnt even comparable  

[polymerpunkah]

And yet, with some blips, your GDP has done okay in the past 20 years. Worse than any previous 20 year period, by the looks of things, but not that much worse.

 

Show us the money, Bill.

 

[Red Phoenix]

17 hours ago, Arniepie said:

the tories closed hundreds of sure start centres, libraries and made youth centres a thing of the past.

they devastated the likes the likes of the police, prison staff and mental health services.

This isnt even comparable  

 

I wasn't saying it's as bad as the Tories.

[Bruce Spanner]

18 hours ago, polymerpunkah said:

And yet, with some blips, your GDP has done okay in the past 20 years. Worse than any previous 20 year period, by the looks of things, but not that much worse.

 

Show us the money, Bill.

 

 

GDP as a measure is shaky ground as obviously there is real entrenched inequality which isn't shown as a distribution, align this with comparable GDP growth over many years and you have a much less rosy picture.

 

We're 6/7th for GDP internationally, if you look at GDP per capita it shows that Britain has massively underperformed, mainly due to the distorting of population which has happened over the past decade of so, this has huge effects on the amount public services require etc.

 

So more GDP, but thinly spread meaning the country is getting 'richer' in the bottom line, but the populations share is less of that.

 

Manufacturing down, inflation up, exports down*, imports up and all the associated costs in this amplified by the national debt being 1:1 and interest rates, caused by the govt, up massively to service that.

 

Not quite the sick man of Europe yet, but we're definataly hiding that cough that's been bothering us for a while.

 

*caveats apply

 

EDIT: Should add that any idea the BoE just wipes the dept, or gives an overdraft, has massive effects on the volitility of the pound and could causes devalaution, or runs on it, which would significantly damage British industy, pensions, small buisness', import prices, inflation etc etc.

 

Who'd a thunk this was dificult?

[Creator Supreme]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx28d72948vo

 

I'm not Starmers biggest fan, but that wonky faced tory bint can fuck off!

[Numero Veinticinco]

4 minutes ago, Creator Supreme said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx28d72948vo

 

I'm not Starmers biggest fan, but that wonky faced tory bint can fuck off!

I saw the headline this morning and decided against reading it. The Tories spent the better part of a decade blaming Labour for the global financial crisis and saying everything they were doing was because of that. Now, a few weeks into a government that is dealing with serious levels of incompetence and negligence, they can’t say ‘yeah, things suck because the Tories have fucked everything up… we told you before the election that it’s going to suck for a long time’. She can fuck off. 

[Bjornebye]

33 minutes ago, Creator Supreme said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx28d72948vo

 

I'm not Starmers biggest fan, but that wonky faced tory bint can fuck off!

The cheeky horrible tory faced weasel cow 

[Section_31]

She's everything that's wrong with journalism in this country. When she was channeling Cummings on Pippa Crerar's twitter feed during the Barnard Castle debacle was unbelievable.

 

Most journos don't care what readers or the public think, not after they've been doing it a while, but they always care what their peers think. Being regarded as a joke by them should horrify her but it clearly doesn't, which tells you a lot. She's showbiz, she likes going the pub and telling her mates she's got to step outside and take a call from the "pm". 

 

If that's what floats her boat then salud, but it's not journalism.

[Jairzinho]

It's fucking embarrassing she's basically at the top of British "journalism".

 

 

[Red Phoenix]

6 hours ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Should add that any idea the BoE just wipes the dept, or gives an overdraft, has massive effects on the volitility of the pound and could causes devalaution, or runs on it, which would significantly damage British industy, pensions, small buisness', import prices, inflation etc etc.

 

Who'd a thunk this was dificult?

 

Maybe some of this is wrong as I'm not an expert in economics or maths but the Bank of England has supposedly created 895 billion out of thin air (or "digitally") since 2009 for QE. After quickly checking with an online calculator the 22 billion black hole is 2.46% of that and scrapping the winter fuel payment that Lucy Powell also said could cause a run on the pound if not done would be 0.78% of that amount if it's thought of as 7 billion (1.4 billion a year for each of the 5 years of this gov.)

 

If another bit of printing or loaning or whatever is added to the 895 billion I'm sure this government would be capable of minimising risk to the pound by explaining how it could be a good idea to finally bring an end to Tory austerity and start using money to invest in the UK instead of making more cuts. Especially seeing as the cuts only end up causing damage that could increase costs in the future and make the economy function worse anyway.

[Section_31]

 

 

[Bruce Spanner]

46 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Maybe some of this is wrong as I'm not an expert in economics or maths but the Bank of England has supposedly created 895 billion out of thin air (or "digitally") since 2009 for QE. After quickly checking with an online calculator the 22 billion black hole is 2.46% of that and scrapping the winter fuel payment that Lucy Powell also said could cause a run on the pound if not done would be 0.78% of that amount if it's thought of as 7 billion (1.4 billion a year for each of the 5 years of this gov.)

 

If another bit of printing or loaning or whatever is added to the 895 billion I'm sure this government would be capable of minimising risk to the pound by explaining how it could be a good idea to finally bring an end to Tory austerity and start using money to invest in the UK instead of making more cuts. Especially seeing as the cuts only end up causing damage that could increase costs in the future and make the economy function worse anyway.

Explain it to the plebs while the bankers see free money and complex wheezes. 
 

Theres two types of quantitative easing, one bottom up, and the other top down.

 

In this case you are giving the money directly to the fuel companies and this money, borrowed money, will be seen as profit and shared as dividends to share holders.

 

It will never enter the economic system and be in closed networks of profit and loss.

 

So the UK has extra debt with little economic stimulus, an incredibly poor return and needing to be paid back with interest.

 

Nothing has changed but added debt, potential pound fall and inflation increases as there’s been no extra capacity made. 

 

 

[Red Phoenix]

18 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Explain it to the plebs while the bankers see free money and complex wheezes. 
 

Theres two types of quantitative easing, one bottom up, and the other top down.

 

In this case you are giving the money directly to the fuel companies and this money, borrowed money, will be seen as profit and shared as dividends to share holders.

 

It will never enter the economic system and be in closed networks of profit and loss.

 

So the UK has extra debt with little economic stimulus, an incredibly poor return and needing to be paid back with interest.

 

Nothing has changed but added debt, potential pound fall and inflation increases as there’s been no extra capacity made. 

 

 

 

You're talking about the winter fuel payment? I only added that because it was an example of a run on the pound comment and also that it was so small an amount compared to QE. If there was a loan for the 22 billion though that would surely free up money to spend on whatever the gov wanted. Either way if the UK is ever going to be sorted out with any type of transformative gov surely there'd be some types of loan expected and an explanation of how that loan would be spent to make the country better off. Maybe Starmer and Reeves have better plans they've not talked about yet, it doesn't look great so far though.

[Bruce Spanner]

15 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

You're talking about the winter fuel payment? I only added that because it was an example of a run on the pound comment and also that it was so small an amount compared to QE. If there was a loan for the 22 billion though that would surely free up money to spend on whatever the gov wanted. Either way if the UK is ever going to be sorted out with any type of transformative gov surely there'd be some types of loan expected and an explanation of how that loan would be spent to make the country better off. Maybe Starmer and Reeves have better plans they've not talked about yet, it doesn't look great so far though.

You are not borrowing 22B to invest, you are borrowing to cover the overspend/shortfalls in Tory spending, you would need more borrowing to invest anything beyond that.

[Red Phoenix]

1 hour ago, Bruce Spanner said:

You are not borrowing 22B to invest, you are borrowing to cover the overspend/shortfalls in Tory spending, you would need more borrowing to invest anything beyond that.

 

Yeah I don't know where I got that bit from, must be my maths/economics expertise showing again or posting stuff after not being awake long. It's still less than 3% of the QE that's gone on since 2009 if I haven't messed that up though so a loan of the same amount shouldn't have to cause a run on the pound. Or they could do one of the other options that aren't cuts several others have suggested.

 

My main point is that it's basically a scam to make people suffer with cuts as the gov can print huge amounts of money whenever they choose to as long as they spend it properly to get the UK into a better state and are able to explain how that'd generate/save money in the long run. Any competent gov should be able to do that and it should be part of the reason why they exist in the first place.

[Bruce Spanner]

10 minutes ago, Red Phoenix said:

 

Yeah I don't know where I got that bit from, must be my maths/economics expertise showing again or posting stuff after not being awake long. It's still less than 3% of the QE that's gone on since 2009 if I haven't messed that up though so a loan of the same amount shouldn't have to cause a run on the pound. Or they could do one of the other options that aren't cuts several others have suggested.

 

My main point is that it's basically a scam to make people suffer with cuts as the gov can print huge amounts of money whenever they choose to as long as they spend it properly to get the UK into a better state and are able to explain how that'd generate/save money in the long run. Any competent gov should be able to do that and it should be part of the reason why they exist in the first place.

They have already said they will borrow to invest.

[Fugitive]

I’m willing to pay an extra £5 a month on my council tax if these SNP cunts fix the fucking potholes around here. It’s fucking horrific and we a still in the summer. I’ve never seen anywhere with potholes this bad anywhere I’ve ever been and they flat out refuse to pay any claims despite the fact the holes have been reported countless times.

 

Sorry for going off topic but it’s pissing me off and has cost me a fortune over the past few years. 

[Red Phoenix]

17 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

They have already said they will borrow to invest.

 

That's good and hopefully they do it well enough, I'd prefer it if they borrowed to avoid cuts too though as doing that could also be seen as investing in the overall health of the UK. Or tax the rich, pay banks less interest on reserves or one of the other options others have suggested.