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Keir Starmer

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Voting Green is a waste of time unless you live in Brighton Pavilion. If you live in a marginal and vote Green you will have no right to whinge about the Tories if they win the next election. The priority has to be to get these cunts out. I have no time for the Lib Dems, but if I lived in a seat where the Lib Dem candidate was the only one who had a chance of beating a Tory, I wouldn’t think twice about voting for them. The same goes for the SNP if them or a Tory.
 

I liked a lot of what Corbyn wanted to do, especially the nationalisation stuff, but I’m no so wedded to it that I won’t compromise. I live in a Labour/Tory marginal, so fortunately I can vote for the party who best represent my views, even under Starmer.

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2 minutes ago, sir roger said:

I have voted Labour in every election for the 42 years I have been eligible and that won't change , and I suspect when push comes to shove most left leaning members will as well , but what you two seem to be disregarding is that there is bound to be ill-feeling when the supporters of Corbyns leadership are being patronised and held to different standards by people who constantly worked totally at odds with this advice that 'any Labour leader us better than a tory ' when it suited them.

I'd respectfully suggest the opposite is the case Sir Rog.

 

I thought the abuse of corbyn was wrong and think the abuse of starmer is wrong.

 

You seem to be saying starmer getting shit is considered fair game by these people because Corbyn got it too. 

 

If Starmer gets hounded out and replaced with RLB, I'd support her too, even though I'd have serious concerns about whether she could win. I wouldn't spend my days and nights producing comedy memes of her.

 

Anyone who does or says anything, anything at all, that harm's Labour’s chances, regardless of who's leading it - starmer, Corbyn, Abbott, hilary Benn, Tony Blair's kid, whoever, is strengthening the Tories' hand.

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6 hours ago, Denny Crane said:

I think you will be the first of many who move from Labour to the Greens. They should probably have their own thread especially as they will be more relevant and will replace the Lib Dems as the 3rd party maybe not in seats but in vote share at the next election.

 

Of all the crazy stuff you've written on here, this is by far the craziest.

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Maybe i have missed something I had twins in June. Starmer isn't getting abuse or calls to stand down rightly from MPs. Not sure what people are getting defensive of.  

 

We seem to be holding members of the public to more scrutiny than our politicians sadly. 

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5 minutes ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

 

Of all the crazy stuff you've written on here, this is by far the craziest.

Yes, a gain of almost 3m votes and nearly 10% share of the election would be somewhat unlikely. 

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4 minutes ago, Denny Crane said:

Maybe i have missed something I had twins in June. Starmer isn't getting abuse or calls to stand down rightly from MPs. Not sure what people are getting defensive of.  

 

We seem to be holding members of the public to more scrutiny than our politicians sadly. 

Just shut the fuck up and get in line, yeah?

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Just now, Denny Crane said:

UKIP

 

2010 919,546

 

2015 3,881,099

If they get more votes than LD, I’ll give you a pound for every vote they get. 

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2 minutes ago, Brownie said:

Just shut the fuck up and get in line, yeah?

It's a fair point

Meanwhile the Tories have been in power 32 years out of the last 50

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Both main parties are talking up their Green credentials. Green policies are in the news daily even British treasure David Attenborough is claiming capitalism is killing us... Genuinely surprised people can't see the scope for many more votes to head to the Greens.

 

Most of us who vote Labour are fed up and do it through gritted teeth right?. Remember this is a Liverpool forum the majority of us who are from Liverpool or have links to the area have a greater hatred of the Tories and see anyonelse as cock blocking but the rest of the country isn't like that. 

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10 minutes ago, Denny Crane said:

There is recent precedent. I make that around 9.5%.

 

UKIP

 

2010 919,546

 

2015 3,881,099

So all they have to do is become a bit racisty and blame immigrants for the environmental issues and they'll pick up all the Brexiteer votes. Sorted.

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14 minutes ago, Denny Crane said:

Maybe i have missed something I had twins in June. Starmer isn't getting abuse or calls to stand down rightly from MPs. Not sure what people are getting defensive of.  

 

We seem to be holding members of the public to more scrutiny than our politicians sadly. 

 

I'm sure you get though the narrative is created by 'influencers' and what not? You only have to look at how mad our politics is to know that, which is why the likes of Farage and the Brexit party carry and have carried disproportionate influence, and also plays a big part in explaining how Trump became the most powerful man in the world. 

 

You only have to look at the likes of the Canary which seens to expend just as many resources attacking the Labour leader than it does Johnson. 

 

Some gems in here. 

 

https://www.thecanary.co/?s=starmer

 

 

 

The 'non MSN' or whatever you want to call them, the blogosphere, social media carries significant weight and provides considerably ammo for any right wing press looking to cultivate the 'labour at war' narrative and the idea that they're not - dare we say it - 'strong and stable'.

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4 minutes ago, skend04 said:

So all they have to do is become a bit racisty and blame immigrants for the environmental issues and they'll pick up all the Brexiteer votes. Sorted.

To be fair, it would probably ensure a Labour government so I'd be pretty happy if Caroline took the party in that direction.

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37 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

I'm sure you get though the narrative is created by 'influencers' and what not? You only have to look at how mad our politics is to know that, which is why the likes of Farage and the Brexit party carry and have carried disproportionate influence, and also plays a big part in explaining how Trump became the most powerful man in the world. 

 

You only have to look at the likes of the Canary which seens to expend just as many resources attacking the Labour leader than it does Johnson. 

 

Some gems in here. 

 

https://www.thecanary.co/?s=starmer

 

 

 

The 'non MSN' or whatever you want to call them, the blogosphere, social media carries significant weight and provides considerably ammo for any right wing press looking to cultivate the 'labour at war' narrative and the idea that they're not - dare we say it - 'strong and stable'.

I have no problems with media outlets Canary etc being held to account for their output. I'm pretty sure it isn't a good business model to trash the newly elected leader. However it seems that there has been one hashtag type event and people are inferring this equates to comparative shit to what Corbyn got - i would say that is a massive exaggeration. 

 

I actually think it is  more of the new Labour leadership know it helps them to punch left to get a bit of good publicity in the short-term. It's why the Starmerout tags would have been welcomed by the leadership. It's why they know bogeymen like McClusky are lapped up and the militant left etc. Put it this way there is a motive to punch left but I would say it is punching down and I find that cowardly especially when most are just regular citizens and it creates long term problems. I would rather they stop abstaining and make their arguments and shape the narrative.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Denny Crane said:

I have no problems with media outlets Canary etc being held to account for their output. I'm pretty sure it isn't a good business model to trash the newly elected leader. However it seems that there has been one hashtag type event and people are inferring this equates to comparative shit to what Corbyn got - i would say that is a massive exaggeration. 

 

I actually think it is  more of the new Labour leadership know it helps them to punch left to get a bit of good publicity in the short-term. It's why the Starmerout tags would have been welcomed by the leadership. It's why they know bogeymen like McClusky are lapped up and the militant left etc. Put it this way there is a motive to punch left but I would say it is punching down and I find that cowardly and creates long term problems. I would rather they stop abstaining and make their arguments and shape the narrative.

 

 

 

To be honest I don't equate it with what Corbyn got, I just don't see what it achieves other than strengthening the Tories' grip on the country, that's my only real opinion on it. 

 

I agree with your last point and I want to see more too. I think the real issue is how deep the roots of the likes of Murdoch and the Barclays go. They remind me of a Cobra trying to stare out a new Labour leader and figure out what he/she is made of, and if they move too much to the left (as they see it) they arm the weapons systems. 

 

I still remember an article from Peter Oborne when Brown took over from Blair about how he'd restored 'seriousness' to the role, how he'd axed his weekly meetings with the editor of the News of the World and replaced them with things like receptions for history academics. Look how that turned out. 

 

It's almost like a game of trying to hope the people who'd instinctively vote for you will do so, while not providing any open goals  to the people who sadly really do set the narrative with white van man and his ilk. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Stront19m Dog™ said:

For what it's worth, I think a lot more people would vote Green if we had a fair voting system. They certainly merit more than a single MP.

True. 

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1 hour ago, sir roger said:

I have voted Labour in every election for the 42 years I have been eligible and that won't change , and I suspect when push comes to shove most left leaning members will as well , but what you two seem to be disregarding is that there is bound to be ill-feeling when the supporters of Corbyns leadership are being patronised and held to different standards by people who constantly worked totally at odds with this advice that 'any Labour leader us better than a tory ' when it suited them.

Sums it up nicely.

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2 hours ago, sir roger said:

I have voted Labour in every election for the 42 years I have been eligible and that won't change , and I suspect when push comes to shove most left leaning members will as well , but what you two seem to be disregarding is that there is bound to be ill-feeling when the supporters of Corbyns leadership are being patronised and held to different standards by people who constantly worked totally at odds with this advice that 'any Labour leader us better than a tory ' when it suited them.

Hadn’t seen this until quoted elsewhere. Completely agree with this, especially the part about being patronised.

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48 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

 

To be honest I don't equate it with what Corbyn got, I just don't see what it achieves other than strengthening the Tories' grip on the country, that's my only real opinion on it. 

 

I agree with your last point and I want to see more too. I think the real issue is how deep the roots of the likes of Murdoch and the Barclays go. They remind me of a Cobra trying to stare out a new Labour leader and figure out what he/she is made of, and if they move too much to the left (as they see it) they arm the weapons systems. 

 

I still remember an article from Peter Oborne when Brown took over from Blair about how he'd restored 'seriousness' to the role, how he'd axed his weekly meetings with the editor of the News of the World and replaced them with things like receptions for history academics. Look how that turned out. 

 

It's almost like a game of trying to hope the people who'd instinctively vote for you will do so, while not providing any open goals  to the people who sadly really do set the narrative with white van man and his ilk. 

 

 

Fair enough.

 

The establishment know Starmer is "sound" as I doubt you get to be head of the CPS if you are a loose cannon. So he will be cut more slack than most even more reason for him not to be cautious. Until they are ready to turn and he will be the lefty lawyer etc.

 

The government isn't failing to manage the pandemic because it is a poor manager it is because they are corrupt and we have outsourced everything. Problem is half of the PLP think outsourcing anything and everything is a good model and Labour are just left pointing to we have a better manager who is better at HR. 

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2 minutes ago, Brownie said:

Starmer is Roy Hodgson when what we really need is Kloppo. Let’s be fucking honest now.

Ha, but sadly we live in a country of mancs. 

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2 minutes ago, Denny Crane said:

Fair enough.

 

The establishment know Starmer is "sound" as I doubt you get to be head of the CPS if you are a loose cannon. So he will be cut more slack than most even more reason for him not to be cautious. The government isn't failing to manage the pandemic because it is a poor manager it is because they are corrupt and we have outsourced everything. Problem is half of the PLP think outsourcing is a good model and Labour are then Labour are just left pointing to we have a better manager. 

I'd say the Govt are blatantly incompetent 

That doesn't mean they're not corrupt with their outsourcing as they obviously are

So, would a better manager help save lives? Yes

I don't agree that half the PLP would like emulate the Tories and see outsourcing as a viable model especially now having witnessed the Serco disaster

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20 minutes ago, mattyq said:

I'd say the Govt are blatantly incompetent 

That doesn't mean they're not corrupt with their outsourcing as they obviously are

So, would a better manager help save lives? Yes

I don't agree that half the PLP would like emulate the Tories and see outsourcing as a viable model especially now having witnessed the Serco disaster

They seem competent enough to make sure all their mates get the contracts. They seem competent enough to take us out of the EU etc etc. They seem competent enough to get the things they want. I don't think we should let them off with being incompetent they are behaving like oligarchs. We will have to agree to disagree on the PLP and outsourcing. 

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