Keir Starmer

[Numero Veinticinco]

22 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

 

Get rid of him now or we call a VoNC immediately to get rid of him.

 

Meaning they have to go against their own self interests and head for a GE where they'll likely get embarrassed, or back Alex and truly destroy themselves.

 

They don't want a GE, but Starmer has just backed them in to a proper corner.

 

Smart move and very well timed.

Yeah, I just hope it works. If he clings on and we get a new government with a coalition that can lead us to sensible governance, it might well be worth it. It’s a good start on the road to recovery. 

[Arniepie]

If starmer calls for a vote of no confidence ,won't the Tories just back him?

[Barrington Womble]

2 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

If starmer calls for a vote of no confidence ,won't the Tories just back him?

I think the Tories wouldn't support a no confidence vote. I don't see how labour win it. The only thing as @Bruce Spannerpointed out. It might make them uncomfortable for about 3 seconds while they realise they have to back Johnson. 

[Arniepie]

7 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I think the Tories wouldn't support a no confidence vote. I don't see how labour win it. The only thing as @Bruce Spannerpointed out. It might make them uncomfortable for about 3 seconds while they realise they have to back Johnson. 

So they would have to publically back him  despite wanting him gone?

I can see how it would put them in an awkward position 

[dockers_strike]

21 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

If starmer calls for a vote of no confidence ,won't the Tories just back him?

If Stamer did call a vote of no confidence, it would be in 'the Government' not Johnson. Stamer could dress it up as a no confidence vote in Johnson, the PM, for public consumption but it would still be a vote on the Goverment.

 

Only the tory MPs can call a vote of no confidence in Johnson as PM and party leader but that requires a 1922 Committee rule change.

 

It's also important to note that any PM can resign as leader of their party but still remain PM in the short term, until either they win a leadership election or, a new leader is voted in.

[Barrington Womble]

16 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

So they would have to publically back him  despite wanting him gone?

I can see how it would put them in an awkward position 

But their counter is they're not backing him. The only VoNC that could get rid of him is one in the government. If it is a VoNC in Johnson alone, it carries no value regardless of how the vote goes. So they say they're supporting the government and not the man. Loads of them have said today "it's not a question of policy but personality". 

[Barrington Womble]

19 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

So they would have to publically back him  despite wanting him gone?

I can see how it would put them in an awkward position 

This is when Corbyn did a VoNC in May instead of the government. It meant nothing. 

 

https://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/corbyns-confusing-no-confidence-vote/

 

[M_B]

53 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I think the Tories wouldn't support a no confidence vote. I don't see how labour win it. The only thing as @Bruce Spannerpointed out. It might make them uncomfortable for about 3 seconds while they realise they have to back Johnson. 

I don't think the general public would understand why the Tories would vote against a no confidence vote and consequently it would be another vote winner for Labour.

[skend04]

Encouraging but it just shows the psychology of these kind of questions. Starmer will struggle in polls of who would make the best PM against the actual PM because he's not the PM, and conversely others struggle Vs Starmer because he has a higher profile.

 

 

[Anubis]

Even that American landscaping company, where Rudy Giuliani did an announcement from, is trolling Johnson.

 

 

[Barrington Womble]

15 minutes ago, M_B said:

I don't think the general public would understand why the Tories would vote against a no confidence vote and consequently it would be another vote winner for Labour.

I'm sure it wouldn't be ideal for the Tories. But they'd win the vote for sure. And the benefit for labour really depends on how it's covered in the evening news bulletins, which is how most Tory voters get their news. Very few people follow in detail and many can't even be arsed at all. They only want to hear about things like brexit, keeping out foreigners, kicking the EU. This type of stuff will just turn them off. 

[sir roger]

Not many Tories with iffy majorities will be keen to throw away the possibility of another 18 months pay I would imagine. Pretty easy to defend as well ‘ the great British public voted us in for 5 years... blah blah blah ‘

[Barrington Womble]

13 minutes ago, sir roger said:

Not many Tories with iffy majorities will be keen to throw away the possibility of another 18 months pay I would imagine. Pretty easy to defend as well ‘ the great British public voted us in for 5 years... blah blah blah ‘

And he's not a president. If we like it or not, we vote for individuals and not the party. 

[Gnasher]

 

 

 

[Gnasher]

Haha. Must be a lesson in there.

 

 

[Gnasher]

^ Oh and well done Sharon Graham and all the BA Heathrow staff. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

I'm going to be a bit disappointed if a VoNC isn't called. It seems to be a win-win for Labour. Either Labour win and the Tories have 2 weeks to select a new leader or face a GE, or they are forced to #backboris, at which point that can be used in the future. I don't really see a downside to doing it, so I think it'll be strange if he doesn't, not to mention he said he would. Why am I wrong, @Bruce Spanner? 

[Bruce Spanner]

25 minutes ago, Hank Moody said:

I'm going to be a bit disappointed if a VoNC isn't called. It seems to be a win-win for Labour. Either Labour win and the Tories have 2 weeks to select a new leader or face a GE, or they are forced to #backboris, at which point that can be used in the future. I don't really see a downside to doing it, so I think it'll be strange if he doesn't, not to mention he said he would. Why am I wrong, @Bruce Spanner? 

All about optics and running the risk of galvanising the Tories.

 

So, they go ahead and the public think it’s ‘playing politics’ and backfires and looks like mud raking and pointless as ‘he’s gone’. The Tories lean in to Labour thinking about the past and spin it as a win as the defeated labour in a key vote and Labour are about personalities not policies as a glorious new dawn for them beckons.

 

Upsides are obvious they get to grandstand and lay it on thick and get the Tories to back Johnson publicly, or they could just abstain.

 

As a piece of political theatre, and future point scoring exercise, it works very well and make them look useless, Indecisive and beholden to Johnson which is the ultimate aim I suppose, but it come with the risks of looking small time and a little after the Lord Mayor’s Show. 
 

Then the election issue, obviously.
 

Personally I think they’ll try it Monday/Tuesday with a full throated backing of the Libs and SNP.

[Numero Veinticinco]

1 minute ago, Bruce Spanner said:

All about optics and running the risk of galvanising the Tories.

 

So, they go ahead and the public think it’s ‘playing politics’ and backfires and looks like mud raking and pointless as ‘he’s gone’. The Tories lean in to Labour thinking about the past and spin it as a win as the defeated labour in a key vote and Labour are about personalities not policies as a glorious new dawn for them beckons.

 

Upsides are obvious they get to grandstand and lay it on thick and get the Tories to back Johnson publicly, or they could just abstain.

 

As a piece of political theatre, and future point scoring exercise, it works very well and make them look useless, Indecisive and beholden to Johnson which is the ultimate aim I suppose, but it come with the risks of looking small time and a little after the Lord Mayor’s Show. 
 

Then the election issue, obviously.
 

Personally I think they’ll try it Monday/Tuesday with a full throated backing of the Libs and SNP.

I don't see it galvanising the Tories, to be honest. The opposite, I think is more likely. There are such deep divisions, creating divisions in the divisions with a VoNC seems like the more likely outcome. I think it gives a great opportunity for more exposure, too. Keep on getting on the news, using the term 'enabling a sexual predator' and 'Tories are backing that' etc. 

 

Agree on the rest. I think they'll push that next week. There's a very minor downside in that Tories can squirm a few lines about Labour playing politics, yadda yadda. That's more than rebuffed with 'can't let an enabler of a sexual predator stay in Number 10'. 

[Bruce Spanner]

7 minutes ago, Hank Moody said:

I don't see it galvanising the Tories, to be honest. The opposite, I think is more likely. There are such deep divisions, creating divisions in the divisions with a VoNC seems like the more likely outcome. I think it gives a great opportunity for more exposure, too. Keep on getting on the news, using the term 'enabling a sexual predator' and 'Tories are backing that' etc. 

 

Agree on the rest. I think they'll push that next week. There's a very minor downside in that Tories can squirm a few lines about Labour playing politics, yadda yadda. That's more than rebuffed with 'can't let an enabler of a sexual predator stay in Number 10'. 

I think the idea runs that if they have a common enemy, Labour, then they put their issues aside and fight the real enemy and start sorting theirselves out and refocus.

 

The fall out from him will be huge, then you have a hugely divided leadership contest, followed by the fall out from that, then the jobs, then the policies and consensus amidst they current troubles.

 

You then have the committees and start investigations and fall outs from those, and any others that come out, as most likely will happen.
 

It’s a shitshow and politically none of them are on the same page and they are losing funding, focus and any momentum whatsoever, so why give them something to focus minds with? 
 

This will run well into next year, and you hope further, which is getting dangerously close to election time and they potentially crawl towards an election broken, divided, discredited with the albatross of Johnson still around their neck.

 

Why would labour want a GE now?

 

Its truly a Hobson’s choice as the country is bad and will get a lot worse over the coming months.

 

Let the Tory cunts face the brunt of it and try and fix it in full public view of their complete lack of ability or any semblance of competency. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

9 minutes ago, Bruce Spanner said:

I think the idea runs that if they have a common enemy, Labour, then they put their issues aside and fight the real enemy and start sorting theirselves out and refocus.

 

The fall out from him will be huge, then you have a hugely divided leadership contest, followed by the fall out from that, then the jobs, then the policies and consensus amidst they current troubles.

 

You then have the committees and start investigations and fall outs from those, and any others that come out, as most likely will happen.
 

It’s a shitshow and politically none of them are on the same page and they are losing funding, focus and any momentum whatsoever, so why give them something to focus minds with? 
 

This will run well into next year, and you hope further, which is getting dangerously close to election time and they potentially crawl towards an election broken, divided, discredited with the albatross of Johnson still around their neck.

Yeah, I definitely get what you're saying; I just don't see how it refocuses them, honestly. You've got loads that just want him gone having given up their jobs to do it. All that happens if they vote for it is they put a new guy in place in 2 weeks rather than 8 or 12. Do you honestly think they'll unite around that? I mean, even if they reject the NC vote, that doesn't mean they unite. They're going to have in their mind 'this makes us look like we are backing Johnson'. I think it sews more division. 

 

It's going to be interesting to see if he has the bottle to do it. 

[Kepler-186]

Hold on to your hats. Coburn on Politics  Live just said Guardian reckon Durham Police are speaking this afternoon. 
 

 

[skend04]

3 minutes ago, Kepler-186 said:

Hold on to your hats. Coburn on Politics  Live just said Guardian reckon Durham Police are speaking this afternoon. 
 

 

Cleared.

[Barrington Womble]

He's just been cleared. 

[Scooby Dudek]

Oh helps even more with the moral high ground.

 

It should but won't stop the cunts comparing it to partygate