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Keir Starmer


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8 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

I’ve read that, if you’d read it you know it doesn’t actually say that. It doesn’t even remotely say what it says in the headline. 

 

Read this one indicating Labours move to the left then revert to type and throw out a few childish insults as you've once again been caught spouting a load of baloney.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/26/starmer-labour-would-not-nationalise-big-six-energy-firms

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3 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

Read this one indicating Labours move to the left then revert to type and throw out a few childish insults as you've once again been caught spouting a load of baloney.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/sep/26/starmer-labour-would-not-nationalise-big-six-energy-firms

Childish insults. Wow, you just... nevermind. 

 

You clearly didn't read the article. Again. I've no issue with him changing his pledges, BTW. It's not like circumstances have changes, is it? It's what he does instead that determines whether or not I agree with him.  

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27 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Childish insults. Wow, you just... nevermind. 

 

"Mouth breather, dribbler' etc  from your posts today. Anyway as you say, nevermind.

Quote

You clearly didn't read the article.

Wrong again. I read the article and the article underlines my point of Starmer moving Labour to the right.

Quote

 

Again. I've no issue with him changing his pledges, BTW. It's not like circumstances have changes, is it? It's what he does instead that determines whether or not I agree with him.  

 

So you're sort of agreeing he has indeed moved to the right? Right?  

 

Of course if you believe moving to the right is a good thing or even a necessary thing for the objective of gaining power it's a different argument.

 

Anyway you crack on i'm off out.

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I've never liked Starmer, never thought he was a leader nor that he was a good communicator/speaker in a political capacity.  If you don't have that you don't resonate with voters and that appears to have been borne out.

 

But, unless he falls on his sword over Durham, we're "balls deep" into his leadership now and just have to wait and see where it leads.  Hopefully he/Labour can scrape though at the next GE and he will surprise everyone and show that he does actually have the ability to be a good PM and that everything before was just tactics to get elected.  But it is only hope, not belief.

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17 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

"Mouth breather, dribbler' etc  from your posts today. Anyway as you say, nevermind.

Why do you lie? Where did I call anybody a mouth breather in my posts today? I could quote your insults but what's the point; you wouldn't understand them. 

18 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Wrong again. I read the article and the article underlines my point of Starmer moving Labour to the right

The article - as almost always with your links - doesn't say what you think it does. It's because of your year 7 level comprehension. 

19 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

So you're sort of agreeing he has indeed moved to the right? Right?  

No. You idiot. 

19 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Anyway you crack on i'm off out.

Hope you have a nice safe trip. Into a fucking woodchipper. 

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2 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

He doesn't really wanna do much Starmer does he? There is literally nothing to vote for other than not being the Tories. 

Of course not, mate. Not until the manifesto comes out, and rightly so in my view. I said he should do exactly this before he became leader (and, to be fair, he has turned a 27 points Tory lead into an 11 point Labour lead with this approach). Every time they've come out with policy the Tories implement it, then get credit for it, and it makes winning an election harder for Labour. They just need to not lose the next election before it's even announced. If he comes out with a list of what he wants to do on day one then a pandemic, war in Europe, Brexit, and cost of living crisis happens, it's all just weaponised. As is the case with the pledges. People don't care if it's right to change pledges - even if he does, which isn't a given - or if Corbyn would have changed his policies (which they would have supported because of changing circumstances) they care that it's Starmer doing it. It's fucking waffle.

 

When the Manifesto comes out and it's in the lead up to an election, that's exactly when he should - and has to - start going on the aggressive and selling his policies. One of his criticisms of the last manifesto was that it was clunky and had policies that weren't properly communicated or sold to the electorate before hand. He needs a better manifesto that's easier to sell, and that is what I'll judge him on. What's actually in the manifesto and how well it's sold is what I personally will judge Starmer on. His job is to win an election so policies can be implimented. Everything else is just waffle. This is all just fuckin' waffle right now. 

 

I think people overlook that he - or whoever the leader was going to be - was up against an 80 seat majority, a divided and broken Labour party, and in the shadow of Brexit. Sometimes you need to sort out your own house. He needs to cut out the Corbynites with a razor. Each and every one of the venomous little saboteur cunts, just as Corbyn should have done with the rest of them. The truth, as I see it, is that these people aren't actually interested in beating the Tories, they're interested in beating Starmer to Labour leadership. Whether or not they shit the bed - AGAIN - afterwards is secondary. Being left-wing isn't about supporting left-wing policies, it's about being the supporter of somebody in your tribe. I care about beating the right-wing, the left care about who they can paint as right-wing. It's pathetic. 

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38 minutes ago, Moo said:

I've never liked Starmer, never thought he was a leader nor that he was a good communicator/speaker in a political capacity.  If you don't have that you don't resonate with voters and that appears to have been borne out.

 

But, unless he falls on his sword over Durham, we're "balls deep" into his leadership now and just have to wait and see where it leads.  Hopefully he/Labour can scrape though at the next GE and he will surprise everyone and show that he does actually have the ability to be a good PM and that everything before was just tactics to get elected.  But it is only hope, not belief.

One thing he has got which the Tories haven't got is some sort of moral compass. I wouldn't leave my wife or kids (if I had any) near anyone in the Tory party. 

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41 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Of course not, mate. Not until the manifesto comes out, and rightly so in my view. I said he should do exactly this before he became leader (and, to be fair, he has turned a 27 points Tory lead into an 11 point Labour lead with this approach). Every time they've come out with policy the Tories implement it, then get credit for it, and it makes winning an election harder for Labour. They just need to not lose the next election before it's even announced. If he comes out with a list of what he wants to do on day one then a pandemic, war in Europe, Brexit, and cost of living crisis happens, it's all just weaponised. As is the case with the pledges. People don't care if it's right to change pledges - even if he does, which isn't a given - or if Corbyn would have changed his policies (which they would have supported because of changing circumstances) they care that it's Starmer doing it. It's fucking waffle.

 

When the Manifesto comes out and it's in the lead up to an election, that's exactly when he should - and has to - start going on the aggressive and selling his policies. One of his criticisms of the last manifesto was that it was clunky and had policies that weren't properly communicated or sold to the electorate before hand. He needs a better manifesto that's easier to sell, and that is what I'll judge him on. What's actually in the manifesto and how well it's sold is what I personally will judge Starmer on. His job is to win an election so policies can be implimented. Everything else is just waffle. This is all just fuckin' waffle right now. 

 

I think people overlook that he - or whoever the leader was going to be - was up against an 80 seat majority, a divided and broken Labour party, and in the shadow of Brexit. Sometimes you need to sort out your own house. He needs to cut out the Corbynites with a razor. Each and every one of the venomous little saboteur cunts, just as Corbyn should have done with the rest of them. The truth, as I see it, is that these people aren't actually interested in beating the Tories, they're interested in beating Starmer to Labour leadership. Whether or not they shit the bed - AGAIN - afterwards is secondary. Being left-wing isn't about supporting left-wing policies, it's about being the supporter of somebody in your tribe. I care about beating the right-wing, the left care about who they can paint as right-wing. It's pathetic. 

Agree. 

There's fuck all to be done outside of the election period that can help. 

The Lib Dems say nothing and get votes from Tory defectors. Don't underestimate it.

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2 minutes ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

Agree. 

There's fuck all to be done outside of the election period that can help. 

The Lib Dems say nothing and get votes from Tory defectors. Don't underestimate it.

I think you can look at opposition period in thirds.

 

The first third of a parliament you've got somebody who has just won an election, in this case a huge win and a big mandate. If you start start throwing out policies and basically trying to win an election at that point, you're doing so against a group that has just won an election, meaning they have lots of support and good will from their voters, and it's so far out that it makes no difference and everything is liable to change. You're best keeping your head down, looking at why you lost, putting in place mechanisms to correct it, and letting the government tackle the problems. You pick up on their issues - Labour do this all the time - but you basically just point and say 'doing it wrong'. Anything more an you're saying to the voters, 'see, you're fucking idiots and you shouldn't have voted for them'. There's a time for that, but not in the first third. It alienates them immediately because they're still in a 'that's my guy' mindset. It's tribalism.

 

Then there's the second third, when the good will from the honeymoon period is starting to wear off, people are starting to come to the conclusion on their own that they don't really like the people they voted for, so you have to then give them a get out of jail free card, 'yeah, it's understandable that you didn't want to vote for us then, but 1) we've changed 2) the people you thought you were getting have let you down and didn't offer what you thought you were getting'. That's what's in progress now, but Labour still have to avoid being the major story and allowing the Tories to use them to deflect. They're all about 'yes, this isn't looking good but what about Labour! Look at them with their policy to [X] and look at them at parties in Durham, they're not better'. No, avoid that shit. 

 

The final third is then about winning people over, telling them your plans, winning them over to the leader and MPs, and then destroying the enemy. The Tories do this every time they're out of power. They are so much better at politics than we on the left have ever been except for when New Labour came along and played the game. Starmer needs to play the game, win the game, then he can do whatever. Only then is anything even remotely worth talking about. Like I say, all this is waffle. Talk about 'what about the pledges' is just waffle. Who gives a fuck? He said ten things, we don't know how many of those will survive. Links to him saying Labour will create a completely new manifesto and holding it up as proof that the ten pledges have all gone is fucking waffle until the manifesto comes out. It's playing 'who is most left wing'. Like I say, it's all just pathetic waffle by those who lose and lose and lose. They can get all the way fucked. 

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3 hours ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

I think the issue we are quite often is somebody sees a clip of Burnham or Cooper or Nandy or whoever, and they say something they like in a way they like, and think ‘that’ll do for me’ without judging them on all the other criteria they need for both being able to win a leadership election/lead the Labour Party, and being able to win an election. I saw a lot of shouts for ‘Ange for leader’ because ‘the girl has a bit of passion’ but they don’t understand that it requires a variety of skills. There’s genuinely some people who are understandably so pissed at the government all they want to see is somebody shouting and calling people cunts on TV and PMQs. 

I can't argue with that but I think in many respects Labour are judged differently than the tories.

I mean look at that cunt In no 10 now.He is so much out of his depth it is actually comical,he has been an utter disaster,yet because he went to Eton and speaks a bit of Latin,he gets away.

Corbyn,milliband,starmer. 

Any of those would have been 10 times the leader johnson is.

The game is rigged

 

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Just now, Arniepie said:

I can't argue with that but I think in many respects Labour are judged differently than the tories.

I mean look at that cunt In no 10 now.He is so much out of his depth it is actually comical,he has been an utter disaster,yet because he went to Eton and speaks a bit of Latin,he gets away.

Corbyn,milliband,starmer. 

Any of those would have been 10 times the leader johnson is.

The game is rigged

 

Absolutely is, mate. It's disgusting. Have you noticed how the Tories just keep their dirty washing inside the house, though? That vote means that there was a huge amount against him, but you hardly hear a peep. He has been absolutely horrific, law breaking, lies all over the place, scandals in the party, and you might occasionally get somebody saying 'well, I don't like this'. And that's it. Starmer turns a 27 point deficit into an 11 point lead but doesn't have a manifesto out so we don't know about some pledge from a leadership contest pre-pandemic, pre-Russia invasion, pre-cost of living crisis, pre-impending Brexit economic hit, and he's the devil. 

 

Labour is really, really shit most of the time. It was dogshit when they tried to take Corbyn out from the inside, it's dogshit now. Their sole purpose is to win elections so they can govern in favour of the people of the country instead of a small subsection of Tory donors and Tory mates, yet they seem to - time after time - focus on themselves and ripping themselves apart. They're just absolutely shit. I might genuinely believe it's a Tory-backed fifth column, but it's different people every time. 

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1 hour ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Why do you lie? Where did I call anybody a mouth breather in my posts today? I could quote your insults but what's the point; you wouldn't understand them. 

The article - as almost always with your links - doesn't say what you think it does. It's because of your year 7 level comprehension. 

No. You idiot. 

Hope you have a nice safe trip. Into a fucking woodchipper. 

The only fibber here is you you continuous succession of drivel. 

 

You claimed Starmer hasn't moved Labour to the right. You've been found out to be a complete fucking whopper, because rightly or wrongly that's exactly what he's done and all your rambling pompous, i know it all, posts where for some bizarre reason you claim otherwise dosnt change the fact, you disingenuous little toad.

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8 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

The only fibber here is you you continuous succession of drivel. 

 

You claimed Starmer hasn't moved Labour to the right. You've been found out to be a complete fucking whopper, because rightly or wrongly that's exactly what he's done and all your rambling pompous, i know it all, posts where for some bizarre reason you claim otherwise dosnt change the fact, you disingenuous little toad.

Aw, you upset? You sound upset. You're just saying things, Gnasher. You keep saying things without backing them up. It's just waffle. I've been 'found out'. Yeah, okay. Good job. 

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17 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Aw, you upset? You sound upset. You're just saying things, Gnasher. You keep saying things without backing them up. It's just waffle. I've been 'found out'. Yeah, okay. Good job. 

 

Im fine.

 

Big brothers final command. 'Ignore your own eyes and ears and instead listen to cheap suit snake oil salesman on the Internet'

 

https://evolvepolitics.com/fact-check-yes-keir-starmer-has-broken-or-rowed-back-on-a-large-proportion-of-his-labour-leadership-pledges-already/

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32 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Absolutely is, mate. It's disgusting. Have you noticed how the Tories just keep their dirty washing inside the house, though? That vote means that there was a huge amount against him, but you hardly hear a peep. He has been absolutely horrific, law breaking, lies all over the place, scandals in the party, and you might occasionally get somebody saying 'well, I don't like this'. And that's it. Starmer turns a 27 point deficit into an 11 point lead but doesn't have a manifesto out so we don't know about some pledge from a leadership contest pre-pandemic, pre-Russia invasion, pre-cost of living crisis, pre-impending Brexit economic hit, and he's the devil. 

 

Labour is really, really shit most of the time. It was dogshit when they tried to take Corbyn out from the inside, it's dogshit now. Their sole purpose is to win elections so they can govern in favour of the people of the country instead of a small subsection of Tory donors and Tory mates, yet they seem to - time after time - focus on themselves and ripping themselves apart. They're just absolutely shit. I might genuinely believe it's a Tory-backed fifth column, but it's different people every time. 

Grayling is another.

The very definition of incompetence,wasted millions in tax payers money yet diane Abbott gets a few sums wrong and is tagged with it for the rest of her political career.

I think the media obviously play a huge part here.

Corbyn tried to take them and was utterly destroyed 

Starmer seems to be taking the opposite path.

 

I don't know.I think labour are now just too far split.

We saw that under corbyn where he was undermined and it just seems to be a never ending civil war which just allows those cunts to plunge us into the abyss.

I think under pr Labour would be 2 separate parties. 

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20 hours ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Just as this government is the fault of Corbyn and his acolytes. 


Come on, there was a lot more to it than that. The way the media ruined him, Brexit, etc. There was a lot of feel good about Corbyn until they started up with all that anti semitism bollocks and the reality of being in opposition during Brexit. 

 

You’re talking about it being rigged… What happened to Corbyn is the prime example of that in action. 

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11 minutes ago, Strontium said:

Burnham is similar to de Pfeffel in that he doesn't have any particularly strong ideological bent, beyond doing what is necessary to attain and retain power.

Harsh that imho

Burnham is a million miles away from johnson

 

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1 minute ago, Captain Turdseye said:


Come on, there was a lot more to it than that. The way the media ruined him, Brexit, etc. There was a lot of feel good about Corbyn until they started up with all that anti semitism bollocks and the reality of being in opposition during Brexit. 

 

You’re talking about it being rigged… What happened to Corbyn is the prime example of that in action. 

He should have gone before 2019, we all knew what was coming. I'm not suggesting it's not rigged, but there's things Labour leaders can do, even if they're no nice. 

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8 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

 

Im fine.

 

Big brothers final command. 'Ignore your own eyes and ears and instead listen to cheap suit snake oil salesman on the Internet'

 

https://evolvepolitics.com/fact-check-yes-keir-starmer-has-broken-or-rowed-back-on-a-large-proportion-of-his-labour-leadership-pledges-already/

Well, I suggest people read that. It's quite, quite funny. The very first thing they claim is that the 'economic justice' pledge has been rowed back on because Reeves said 'we will look at government proposals' in an interview. I mean, is this some sort of joke? Am I being 'pranked, bro'?

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4 minutes ago, Captain Turdseye said:


Come on, there was a lot more to it than that. The way the media ruined him, Brexit, etc. There was a lot of feel good about Corbyn until they started up with all that anti semitism bollocks and the reality of being in opposition during Brexit. 

 

You’re talking about it being rigged… What happened to Corbyn is the prime example of that in action. 

Whatever your opinion of corbyn,I have never seen a politician so utterly vilified as he was.

Taking everything else away,that was an utter disgrace.

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25 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Aw, you upset? You sound upset. You're just saying things, Gnasher. You keep saying things without backing them up. It's just waffle. I've been 'found out'. Yeah, okay. Good job. 

 

Starmer hasn't swung to right because Numero says so and he's really really clever. Chapter 26,

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/keir-starmer-rules-out-nationalising-big-six-energy-firms-major-shift-away-jeremy-corbyn-leadership-1219015

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1 minute ago, Gnasher said:

 

Starmer hasn't swung to right because Numero says so

I know your comprehension skills aren't very good, but you really, really need to take a breath and read what I actually wrote. I said he was centre left. The rest is you going off on one. Watch your ticker. 

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