Keir Starmer

[Arniepie]

1 hour ago, Jack the Sipper said:

 

Well, apart from the fact it's over a year old, and doesn't take into account anything that's happened in the political or social arenas, or the NHS for that matter, in that period, the article (and you) comparing a poll taken for a general election with one taken for local elections, it doesn't present its methodology for either poll (which might give some idea how representative they are), and the poll you posted is only one poll. Polls are only worth anything when (leaving aside what I've already said about them being representative, recent, comparing like for like) they are seen in the context of other polls which form part of a trend.

 

There may well be a move towards nurses voting Tories at general elections right now and in the future, but that poll doesn't show that.

As someone without a clue about economics,I genuinely can't get my head around the accepted motion that the Tories are reliable with the economy. 

I grew up in the 80s when big chunks of the country where literally left to die.

Under Cameron they cut every single service to the bone and now food banks are a accepted part of life in 1 of the richest countries on the planet.

The only period of relative prosperity was that brief late 90s,early 2000s era,but of course Labour can't be trusted. 

You just know if we do manage the volley these cunts out of power, when Labour/liberals take over and the country is an utter mess,who's fault it will be

 

[Section_31]

14 minutes ago, Arniepie said:

As someone without a clue about economics,I genuinely can't get my head around the accepted motion that the Tories are reliable with the economy. 

I grew up in the 80s when big chunks of the country where literally left to die.

Under Cameron they cut every single service to the bone and now food banks are a accepted part of life in 1 of the richest countries on the planet.

The only period of relative prosperity was that brief late 90s,early 2000s era,but of course Labour can't be trusted. 

You just know if we do manage the volley these cunts out of power, when Labour/liberals take over and the country is an utter mess,who's fault it will be

 

Their mates peddle the fiction because they show 'public sector pay restraint', but that money doesn't get saved, it gets diverted to said pals. 

[Jairzinho]

14 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Their mates peddle the fiction because they show 'public sector pay restraint', but that money doesn't get saved, it gets diverted to said pals. 

Yes, it's a combination of convincing people that spending money on giving tax breaks to Richnonce McCuntface is better than spending money on nurses or ensuring people don't have to eat rodents, and a conflation between the economics of one person and that of a country. Hence imbeciles on QT saying stuff like "we have to live within our means, if I don't have enough money at the end of the week I can't buy a pint". Ignoring the fact that we can print our own money, can change interest rates, etc, etc.

[Section_31]

17 minutes ago, Jairzinho said:

Yes, it's a combination of convincing people that spending money on giving tax breaks to Richnonce McCuntface is better than spending money on nurses or ensuring people don't have to eat rodents, and a conflation between the economics of one person and that of a country. Hence imbeciles on QT saying stuff like "we have to live within our means, if I don't have enough money at the end of the week I can't buy a pint". Ignoring the fact that we can print our own money, can change interest rates, etc, etc.

 

Cameron and media pals started all that, with the Lib Dems fully complicit.

 

The banks destroyed the economy, nobody went to jail. the state bailed them out and that was all paid for by closing libraries, axing mental health services and privatising nursing homes. Many of the repercussions of which are only just starting to be felt now.

 

They 'sold' this with talk about Labour 'maxing out the credit card' and 'living within our means'. It directly led to Brexit too IMO - the hardships felt on the streets were redirected at the wrong people. 

 

 

Johnson's mob have just taken this type of grand theft mixed with disinformation to new heights. Developers' charters, PPE scandals and all the rest of it.

[skend04]

3 hours ago, Gnasher said:

So? Time limits on here now ?

 

Anything to say on the subject?  If so keep it to yourself.

Never considered taking this advice yourself?

[Moctezuma]

5 hours ago, Section_31 said:

If there is a general move towards the Tories in NHS staff I'd suggest it could be for two reasons. 

 

A few of them do private practice (I bet most GPs do regular private work now, for all their moaning about there not being enough hours in the day) so they're not particularly arsed about the NHS as an institution as much as the likes of the Daily Mirror are. 

 

But also the way they've been encouraged over time to feel about ordinary punters.

 

In my experience, especially in A&E, a lot of health staff treat you like they're doing you a favour because it's 'free' (even though you've paid for it).

 

The general assumption if you turn up to A&E is that you're scum, taking up valuable time and should be lucky to get what you're given.

 

As we've started to despise the poor over time in this country, somehow that's wormed it's way into the NHS too. I've seen it to an extent with GPs too if anyone I know has been asking for sick notes or any kind of support for towards claiming benefits. 

 

The NHS has been morally/spirituality broken over time, not just physically. You'll find more compassion in a Soviet Stalag.

 

The idea that the NHS is a precious national institution is baffling to me, it's not fit for purpose (as a direct result of the Tories and the great British electorate). If I put me foot through a window, my first though wouldn't be that I'd hurt myself, but that I'd have to park my arse in some third world shithole for the next 18 hours.

 

 

From inside the organisation I think there is a an overall burnout and tiredness from the pandemic, but there are other trends going on.

 

Part of this is obviously linked to the following combined:

- The country's rapidly aging demography* and the demands on the services increasing exponentially

- Lack of investment

- Poor rates of pay against comparative countries and private practice

- GP services struggling to cope/not coping leading to ED clogs

- Exhaustion from multiple bank shifts covering service gaps

- Itinerant agency working

- High staff turnover

- Reduction in staffing with significant resignations after Brexit and Covid 

retirement of the baby boomers working in the service.

 

I think I've said on here before that Covid and the above demands on the service have really torched a lot of the idea of convalescence, with discharge and bed turnover having gained even more prominence. In a way this is good because it reduces the likelihood of hospital borne infections and on average people do tend to recover better at home, but there are perhaps some clinically iffy decisions being pushed forward on discharge and I wouldn't be surprised if that start hitting the press in the non-too distant future. A culture of promoting the best wards at discharge and turnaround times is starting to get deeply embedded.

Part of this is also being driven by a collapse in mental health and social services, which means trying to get people out of hospital can be challenging when they have nowhere to go.

 

Public satisfaction is also an issue with numerous other industries offering immediate gratification for every whim that healthcare by it's nature finds difficult to deliver.

 

With regards NHS staff turning to the Conservatives, while the vast bulk of people within the organization work in an altruistic fashion and are generally compassionate (more associated with a wholistic view of society and less and individualized one) they are not immune to stuff happening externally, so whether that being the Conservatives being associated as the party of Brexit or home ownership situations.  There are also a lot of people who could be categorised as low information voters within the NHS and the Conservatives in tandem step with vast bulk of our media helps get their propaganda across more effectively.

 

The entire system is under strain because of numerous factors, but at the heart of it is a lack of appropriate spend on services commensurate with the needs of an aging population and denigration of supporting services.

 

I often use the below graphic in my posts, but it's one of the main reasons as to why the country is where it is (and by extension the NHS), we have more people aged between 60 and 64 than we do baby's and toddlers, which from recollection only the Japanese and Germans have really got to more quickly (both of whom have been dominated by conservative administrations in recent years).

 

I've started to find this interesting in the way it is reported in the media, the recent rise of the state pension with RPI as set by the triple lock has often led to some pretty interesting language where the working age population are ok to be slandered and are being seen as moaning and should take up additional work (presumably because the dreaded millennials are now making up a significant chunk of the workforce what with their lower wages and asset holding).

 

*Part of which has been because of the success the NHS and public health campaigns have had in increasing peoples lifespans (I think there could be a genuine conversation to be had about upper age limit/clinical cut offs regarding the use of services)

[Arniepie]

If there was 1 sector where you would think has been most damaged by 10 years of cuts,it would be the NHS, especially areas like mental health. 

The idea that the people happily imposing those savage cuts, are still electoral popular within that sector is frankly mystifying.

[Section_31]

[Gnasher]

1 hour ago, skend04 said:

Never considered taking this advice yourself?

So the answer was no. Thought so.

[Creator Supreme]

13 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Nice to see.

[skend04]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

So the answer was no. Thought so.

What was the question?

[Gnasher]

18 minutes ago, skend04 said:

What was the question?

Have a look Batman. It's up on the thread.

[skend04]

21 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Have a look Batman. It's up on the thread.

There's three question marks. Which one you want answering?

[Gnasher]

17 minutes ago, skend04 said:

There's three question marks. Which one you want answering?

Try answering the one where you defended billionaire food factory owners over workers asking for a fair deal first.

 

I think your explanation was as these workers live in poor areas they shouldn't complain about shit wages and conditions.

[skend04]

1 hour ago, Gnasher said:

Try answering the one where you defended billionaire food factory owners over workers asking for a fair deal first.

 

I think your explanation was as these workers live in poor areas they shouldn't complain about shit wages and conditions.

So what's your question then?

[Gnasher]

30 minutes ago, skend04 said:

So what's your question then?

Numero actually gave one of them green arrow things to that post. You centerists are an odd bunch.

[Numero Veinticinco]

28 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Numero actually gave one of them green arrow things to that post. You centerists are an odd bunch.

Hold on, I was right wing the other day. What views have I changed to make me a centrist now? 

[Gnasher]

3 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Hold on, I was right wing the other day. What views have I changed to make me a centrist now? 

Listened?

[Numero Veinticinco]

10 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Listened?

No, exactly what views of mine have changed to take me from being right-wing a few days ago to being a centrist today. For once, back up something you’ve said. 

[Gnasher]

6 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

No, exactly what views of mine have changed to take me from being right-wing a few days ago to being a centrist today. For once, back up something you’ve said. 

Don't know don't care.

[Numero Veinticinco]

7 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Don't know don't care.

So why say these made up things? Is it because you’ve got absolutely nothing else about you. You’ve proven you can’t argue the points you make, you just post a link and then insult people. Can’t you just have a normal conversation like a normal person? 

[Gnasher]

25 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

So why say these made up things? Is it because you’ve got absolutely nothing else about you. You’ve proven you can’t argue the points you make, you just post a link and then insult people. Can’t you just have a normal conversation like a normal person? 

You're the poster joking about nuking me on the other thread ur mad head. Fucking normal.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Just now, Gnasher said:

You're the poster joking about nuking me on the other thread ur mad head. Fucking normal.

Right. Good stuff. But what about the things in the post you quoted. 
 

Interesting creature. 

[Gnasher]

9 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

Right. Good stuff. But what about the things in the post you quoted. 
 

Interesting creature. 

Yeah but forgetting the 'good stuff' speil, you're a hypocrite, have a look at the other thread, wanted to nuke me, yet you're so up your own arse you want to impose judgemental highbrow forum rules upon me.

[Bjornebye]

48 minutes ago, Numero Veinticinco said:

So why say these made up things? Is it because you’ve got absolutely nothing else about you. You’ve proven you can’t argue the points you make, you just post a link and then insult people. Can’t you just have a normal conversation like a normal person? 

I thought that was what this was all about?

 

Shit, Ive been doing it wrong all along