Keir Starmer

[Numero Veinticinco]

11 minutes ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

This. 

 

Politics used to be extreme slow-burn but in the explosion of keyboard punditry it's now unrecognisable and incoherent.

 

Twitter seems to have a habit of turning anything it touches into shit.  Politics was never meant to meet Twitter.  

I’ve been putting off watching The Social Dilemma. Apparently it makes your head spin. Twitter is just the worst. I don’t use it much, but when I do I stand there like I’m in a Zoo. I’m watching with disgust as the monkeys throw shit around their enclosure, wondering why this is happening. I have watched a bit too much of Twitter this last couple of days, just like observing how they’re acting and how quick the tribalism leads people to say things and act in a certain way. It is so predictable and seems to make people believe things. It’s actually quite a dangerous thing in my view. It’s like a compulsion or a drug habit. For some, probably not all, 

[Rico1304]

1 minute ago, Colonel Bumcunt said:

The Tories have already fallen apart, they're united around Boris Johnson, not conservatism.  It's all fine as long as he stays, but when he goes there will be a very odd shaped hole to fill, and probably plenty more stories to come from Cummings.  By the way, I'll have money on Cummings getting on-board with Labour or Libs very soon.  

It’s amazing how they’ve fallen apart and are still in power, seemingly gaining popularity and if this place is any kind of barometer likely to be in power for years to come.  
 

What has to happen to them to lose the next election?  

[Captain Turdseye]

2 hours ago, Bruce Spanner said:

Whatever the question being asked is, Richard Burgon is not, and will never be, the answer.

What if the question was ‘which MP’s could batter Bjornebye?’

[Gnasher]

2 minutes ago, Numero said:

I’ve been putting off watching The Social Dilemma. Apparently it makes your head spin. Twitter is just the worst. I don’t use it much, but when I do I stand there like I’m in a Zoo. I’m watching with disgust as the monkeys throw shit around their enclosure, wondering why this is happening. I have watched a bit too much of Twitter this last couple of days, just like observing how they’re acting and how quick the tribalism leads people to say things and act in a certain way. 

I think Starmer and his team were rash the other night. They seemed to panic, we obviously don't know the ins and outs but it seemed rushed. The Hartlepool result was very bad and downturn on the Labour vote was more than expected but it spooked them. Now after all the council results and mayor results are in the picture is not quite so disastrous, not good but these elections were fought in very unusual circumstances. Maybe the wiser option would've been to wait, veiw the results as a whole, reflect for a few days then have the reshuffle.

[Gnasher]

6 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

It’s amazing how they’ve fallen apart and are still in power, seemingly gaining popularity and if this place is any kind of barometer likely to be in power for years to come.  
 

What has to happen to them to lose the next election?  

People like you not voting for them I'd have thought.

[Numero Veinticinco]

Just now, Gnasher said:

I think Starmer and his team were rash the other night. They seemed to panic, we obviously don't know the ins and outs but it seemed rushed. The Hartlepool result was very bad and downturn on the Labour vote was more than expected but it spooked them. Now after all the council results and mayor results are in the picture is not quite so disastrous, not good but these elections were fought in very unusual circumstances. Maybe the wiser option would've been to wait, veiw the results as a whole, reflect for a few days then have the reshuffle.

Maybe it was planned out weeks ago. Maybe it was spur of the moment. I prefer to look at what I know, which I’m this case is his choices. In my view, they’re poor. 

[Nelly-Szoboszlai]

It's good to have the adults back in char..... 

 

SHIT! 

[Carvalho Diablo]

6 hours ago, Numero said:

I don’t know how we are so far apart on this, dude. For two people who’d likely agree on probably 96.348% of policies, we are wildly different in where we stand on this. 
 

First thing I’d say is Mandelson can get swallowed by the earth and never resurface. I don’t know why this straw man is thrown out so often in the last year that the options are the working class heroes of the Corbyn clan or some evil demon headmaster. There’s plenty more space on the left than that. 
 

I have two questions. When was the last time a traditional Labour (like the one you just claimed need to have the party returned to them as they’re the natural roots of the party) type party with traditional old Labour values won an election in the UK? And also, when was the last time that any party like that won an election in any major, advanced economy in the world? I know it’ll be easier to answer a different question, and it will be a pain in the arse, but it’s important to think about when thinking about electability. 
 

Currently, I can name none in the top ten economies and one in the top twenty (14th, Spain). It’s generally socially liberal,  centre right or centre with a few centre left. Of the countries that are fairy similar to us, I can’t think of a single one. As for when a party like that last won an election here. Not in our lifetime. Think about that. Never since we’ve been alive has there been that type of party in power. 
 

My answer isn’t fucking Mandleson, it’s finding and developing a new way, coupled with an easy smile, good looks, intelligence and pragmatism. you wouldn’t think that, out of a nation of 70m, it’s be so fucky hard to find somebody like Arden or AOC or whoever, but Labour need to thoroughly remodernise, in my view, not go back to the days when old Labour where a powerhouse. They will never again win an election on that basis. 

 

 

Starmer would boot AOC out of the party for blatant anti-Semitism.

 

 

[Colonel Bumcunt]

28 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

It’s amazing how they’ve fallen apart and are still in power, seemingly gaining popularity and if this place is any kind of barometer likely to be in power for years to come.  
 

What has to happen to them to lose the next election?  

Covid provides the cover though doesn't it, because once it's gone then we revert back to policies and the economy again, and this government has no wiggle room in future budgets, it'll be slash and burn. Or, they keep the focus on Covid for along time to come, and people will tire of it.  I'm not saying what they did was wrong, but it will have consequences. 

[Brownie]

52 minutes ago, Numero said:

I’ve been putting off watching The Social Dilemma. Apparently it makes your head spin. Twitter is just the worst. I don’t use it much, but when I do I stand there like I’m in a Zoo. I’m watching with disgust as the monkeys throw shit around their enclosure, wondering why this is happening. I have watched a bit too much of Twitter this last couple of days, just like observing how they’re acting and how quick the tribalism leads people to say things and act in a certain way. It is so predictable and seems to make people believe things. It’s actually quite a dangerous thing in my view. It’s like a compulsion or a drug habit. For some, probably not all, 

If you don’t like reading the stuff you’re reading on Twitter, then I don’t know, maybe unfollow the people you’re following?

[Numero Veinticinco]

7 hours ago, Brownie said:

If you don’t like reading the stuff you’re reading on Twitter, then I don’t know, maybe unfollow the people you’re following?

I’m not following them. Like I say, I rarely read any of it. Though I do like to see what all sides are saying from the right to the left. I’ve always been like it. I find it helpful, and it avoids the type of groupthink that goes on on the left. It’s not about liking it (or the bizarre suggestion that if you don’t like something you should ignore it), it’s about knowledge. If you sit in a bubble, with your fingers in your ears, listening to only those who agree with you, you come out thinking some very strange things indeed. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

7 hours ago, Carvalho Diablo said:

Starmer would boot AOC out of the party for blatant anti-Semitism.

 

 

I don’t think she would get booted for that. I think that’s actually a demonstration of how to criticise Israel without using dodgy stereotypes. 

[Rico1304]

Raynor’s replacement looks like the witch from Chorlton and the Wheelies.

[sir roger]

37 minutes ago, Numero said:

 I do like to see what all sides are saying from the right to the left.

 

it avoids the type of groupthink that goes on on the left. 

 

[Bruce Spanner]

5 minutes ago, Rico1304 said:

Raynor’s replacement looks like the witch from Chorlton and the Wheelies.

You take that back, Dodds is lovely! 

[Numero Veinticinco]

14 minutes ago, sir roger said:

 

Yes? When did you become so cowardly, Rog? 
 

Considering I’m on the left and I preceded that with ‘I find it helpful’, I’m clearly taking about avoiding the groupthink that happens within my own group. The groupthink on the left at the moment is an order of magnitude worse than the right in this country. It seems about even in the US, what with their gun/Trump/conspiracy stuff. The right in this country are just selfish, spiteful cunts. I really don’t give a fuck if they eat themselves; the sooner the better. I do care about the left eating itself though, and at this point the collective guts of the left are at bursting point. 

[Barrington Womble]

9 hours ago, Gnasher said:

I think Starmer and his team were rash the other night. They seemed to panic, we obviously don't know the ins and outs but it seemed rushed. The Hartlepool result was very bad and downturn on the Labour vote was more than expected but it spooked them. Now after all the council results and mayor results are in the picture is not quite so disastrous, not good but these elections were fought in very unusual circumstances. Maybe the wiser option would've been to wait, veiw the results as a whole, reflect for a few days then have the reshuffle.

I reckon they were desperate to move the news cycle on from disastrous defeat and onto "the labour party are listening". They fucked it up massively. 

[Gnasher]

9 minutes ago, Barrington Womble said:

I reckon they were desperate to move the news cycle on from disastrous defeat and onto "the labour party are listening". They fucked it up massively. 

Yeah probably, I think like Numero touched on it might have been decided before the elections and maybe when the polling from Hartlepool was so dire. I just find it a bit strange, I've no sympathy for the ministers demoted or moved, I think they're poor anyway but I think the average Labour mp today is poor so not a great deal of choice. There are certainly some strange results to try to make sense off, Hartlepool disaster, Bristol disaster, Mayor elections good, Wales good, some councils good some councils not so good, so councils poor. Maybe best described as the good the bad and the ugly.

[Brownie]

1 hour ago, Numero said:

OnChI’m not following them. Like I say, I rarely read any of it. Though I do like to see what all sides are saying from the right to the left. I’ve always been like it. I find it helpful, and it avoids the type of groupthink that goes on on the left. It’s not about liking it (or the bizarre suggestion that if you don’t like something you should ignore it), it’s about knowledge. If you sit in a bubble, with your fingers in your ears, listening to only those who agree with you, you come out thinking some very strange things indeed. 

That’s all well and good but actually going and looking for those views is clearly making you angry so i’m not sure it’s healthy.

 

I take the point about echo chambers but I think that’s an over-rated view in my opinion. I hear a lot of people say that.

 

I don’t need to go looking to know what the right wing are saying and thinking. Just keeping up to date with the news cycle is enough to keep you abreast.

 

As for the left being worse than the right here and about equal to the Trump loons on the right? Come on man.

[Barrington Womble]

4 minutes ago, Gnasher said:

Yeah probably, I think like Numero touched on it might have been decided before the elections and maybe when the polling from Hartlepool was so dire. I just find it a bit strange, I've no sympathy for the ministers demoted or moved, I think they're poor anyway but I think the average Labour mp today is poor so not a great deal of choice. There are certainly some strange results to try to make sense off, Hartlepool disaster, Bristol disaster, Mayor elections good, Wales good, some councils good some councils not so good, so councils poor. Maybe best described as the good the bad and the ugly.

I'm not sure there's too may politicians good either side of the aisle. I do wonder if that is because we see more of them than 30 years ago and they were always this shit, we just didn't get to see it. 

 

Yeah, maybe the choice had been made before. Local elections are difficult to judge some things at the best of times and let's be fair, and the Hartlepool vote couldn't have happened at a worse time for labour as the Tories are riding the crest of the wave of the vaccine success, combined with this is a massive brexit constituency (70% leave in the referendum?) at a time when the EU was failing miserably with the vaccine roll out, which probably hardened some people's position. 

 

The bottom line for labour though is these Tory cunts seem to be able to get away with just about anything and it's having no impact at all on their popularity. Reshuffle all you like, but do labour have the quality to be able to expose the Tories no matter which order their deck is in? I think probably not right now. 

[Section_31]

I'm starting to think that the problem with Labour is that it's trying to listen to what people want, when it should actually be setting out what it wants, then trying to sell it. 

 

Most people aren't into politics, some people are just thick. I don't see the point of putting all your eggs in focus groups when some of the people who abandoned you at the last election said things like "I'm glad we're out of the EU as it will stop all the Pakistanis coming over" or, "the labour MP has done nothing for the town, there isn't even a single doctor in the hospital."

 

When I go for a curry, I don't do it because the curry house owner has been to my house to ask me about what kind of curry I like to which I reply "ham", I go because he already makes his own curry, he tells me what it is, and I either go in or I walk past and go elsewhere. 

[Brownie]

1 minute ago, Section_31 said:

I'm starting to think that the problem with Labour is that it's trying to listen to what people want, when it should actually be setting out what it wants, then trying to sell it.

That’s exactly it. If the stuff it wants to do is not massively popular (left wing policies are though) then try to change the argument, don’t change your own principles to suit the electorate.

 

I’ve been banging on about this for years.

[Barrington Womble]

32 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

I'm starting to think that the problem with Labour is that it's trying to listen to what people want, when it should actually be setting out what it wants, then trying to sell it. 

 

Most people aren't into politics, some people are just thick. I don't see the point of putting all your eggs in focus groups when some of the people who abandoned you at the last election said things like "I'm glad we're out of the EU as it will stop all the Pakistanis coming over" or, "the labour MP has done nothing for the town, there isn't even a single doctor in the hospital."

 

When I go for a curry, I don't do it because the curry house owner has been to my house to ask me about what kind of curry I like to which I reply "ham", I go because he already makes his own curry, he tells me what it is, and I either go in or I walk past and go elsewhere. 

Funnily enough I was thinking similar just the other day listening to the Tory who won Hartlepool bang on about how the people of Hartlepool are sick of "the labour MP letting them down". Like how the fuck can the labour MP do anything for change when for 30 of the last 40 years we've been under Tory rule? And while labour got plenty wrong in their stint in office, they did far.more for deprived areas than any Tory government in my life time. I don't actually know what the answer is, but what's clear is the message labour are getting out and it has been true under all leadership since 2010, is clearly allowing a narrative that somehow this nations failures are on labour. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

55 minutes ago, Brownie said:

That’s all well and good but actually going and looking for those views is clearly making you angry so i’m not sure it’s healthy.

 

I take the point about echo chambers but I think that’s an over-rated view in my opinion. I hear a lot of people say that.

 

I don’t need to go looking to know what the right wing are saying and thinking. Just keeping up to date with the news cycle is enough to keep you abreast.

 

As for the left being worse than the right here and about equal to the Trump loons on the right? Come on man.

I don’t go out of my way to see views that make me angry. They don’t make me angry, it’s just irritating and disappointing. I just think they’re cunts. I can obviously see how somebody reading me calling people cunts might seem to be based in anger, but it’s just a colloquial way of saying that I fundamentally disagree with how these people act. I also sometimes just read the responses to tweets linked on here. It’s, erm, interesting. 

 

In what way is avoiding echo chambers overrated? I think it’s a very important part of coming to a rounded view. Considering different perspectives and looking at different sets of data gets you closer to something accurate rather than a confirmation of your own bias. A lot of the posters on here suffer badly from it. There’s so much parroting that goes on and so little actual thought. Seriously, it’s pretty much verbatim, over and over. It’s a race to the bottom, 140 characters a pop. 
 

As for the left being worse. Yeah, absolutely. In my view it’s not just worse but dramatically worse. The left, in general, have gone off a cliff. The centre left (aka ‘the right’) are a little more open and pragmatic but the socialist left… it’s eye opening in just how far things have gone. I have socialist, left-wing views (as if views on politics matter anymore) but I would never associate myself with the majority claiming to be socialists or lefties. It used to be a proud mix between the working class and the academic base of the movement but now it’s a race to the bottom of who can toe the Skwakbox, Rachel Swindon line the fastest. It isn’t about reality, it’s about twisting what you can and scoring points for likes, views, ad-clicks, and patreon subscribers. Then there’s the stupidity. Oy, the stupidity. I hate the right because of what they believe in, but I scowl at the left because of how they’re acting. I say ‘they’ because I’m clearly not left wing anymore. The left I associated with is practically dead. Unfortunately, I still have left wing views. That leaves me in a bit of a void. I think I’m not the only one.

I’d love to hear what these people think about political subjects that aren’t in the Twitter conversion on a daily basis. In general these people just picked a side, it has little to do with actual politics in most cases. The tribalism is irritating. It’s culty and weird. Like I said previously, the left have a lot in common with Trump supporters. I want very little association with any of that nonsense. 

[Numero Veinticinco]

Sorry… but ham curry? 
 

Ham fucking curry?

 

Fucking hell. Wait until Tone hears about this. 
 

Tory fuckin’ Britain for ya.