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Keir Starmer

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2 minutes ago, Section_31 said:

Don't think Tory voters give a toss about taxes, their backers and donors do, but not the voters. I think most tory voters buy in to the "I work hard and poor people don't" stuff.

 

Same kind of culture in the States and Australia, where Murdoch incidentally also holds sway.

 

We've weaponised ordinary people against each other, it's been the same for years. People with a shit pension get more angry at people who've got a good  one in their job, than they do at their own employer or boss for giving them a shit one.

 

People who use foobanks are the undeserving poor, they should get out there and graft like me. Yours faithfully, Ms I.AM Cunt, marketing executive, BA (hons) esquire. 

I know i'm on ignore and you wont see this, but much of what you are saying here is complete lazy bollocks.

 

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3 minutes ago, A Red said:

If the message is that you will lower taxes, increase the minimum wage and help people to buy their own homes, all which makes them better off (benefits) then I agree with the above. If you bang on about tory corruption and tax avoidance (features) it wont work.

 

Features tell, benefits sell.

My point being Tory corruption and tax avoidance is holding people back in every aspect of their lives. 

 

Lower taxes, how will it be afforded, tax avoidance, corruption. 

Campaign on improving people's lives but link that to corruption and tax avoidance at every possible stage 

 

Unfortunately I agree with @Section_31 post above. 

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7 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

My point being Tory corruption and tax avoidance is holding people back in every aspect of their lives. 

 

Lower taxes, how will it be afforded, tax avoidance, corruption. 

Campaign on improving people's lives but link that to corruption and tax avoidance at every possible stage 

 

Unfortunately I agree with @Section_31 post above. 

It might be true, it might not, but its not a benefit message (enough people arent bothered to make a difference) but a feature of how you would pay to create the benefit.

 

You might say , "I want a fairer society", I might say "I want a levelling up of society". My statement implies a positive, yours a negative. Its all about language.

 

Anyway, I realise i'm being boring now.

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24 minutes ago, A Red said:

It might be true, it might not, but its not a benefit message (enough people arent bothered to make a difference) but a feature of how you would pay to create the benefit.

 

You might say , "I want a fairer society", I might say "I want a levelling up of society". My statement implies a positive, yours a negative. Its all about language.

 

Anyway, I realise i'm being boring now.

I agree, especially with the boring bit.

When Labour talk about levelling up the first question is always, "how will you pay?" Then hit corruption and avoidance.

Properly funded NHS easily by ending corruption and avoidance.

 

Don't jump in with it but every question end up talking about how corruption and avoidance is holding society back.

 

Ironically, maybe I am not explaining myself clearly. I agree you need to sell a positive message, but Labour then get asked, where is money coming from, answer with corruption and avoidance.

 

The other side bring Tories say you care about our soldiers/police/nurses, well they could afford to feed themselves were it not for corruption etc. You care so much you would rather nurses go to food banks as long as your friends can avoid tax.

 

Talk about policy, positively etc but everything leads back to hammering corruption, self interest, avoidance.

 

"I hear what you are saying, but I think the important point is we easily could fund "x"  if the Tories weren't giving away billions to their friends ? 

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It’s been said a million times but it needs to be repeated. Align your policies to your values/principles and then drive the message home.

 

If it’s not something the electorate like, then change their mind rather than abandon your principles.

 

Labour look like they are going to try to shoehorn their ideas into the mood of the electorate rather than trying to change people’s thinking.

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Great news from the Guarniad , a panicked LOTO have decided we aren't far enough to the right and Starmer is looking for places for Hilary Benn and Yvette Cooper , with a promotion  for Rachel Reeves.

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57 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

I agree, especially with the boring bit.

When Labour talk about levelling up the first question is always, "how will you pay?" Then hit corruption and avoidance.

Properly funded NHS easily by ending corruption and avoidance.

 

Don't jump in with it but every question end up talking about how corruption and avoidance is holding society back.

 

Ironically, maybe I am not explaining myself clearly. I agree you need to sell a positive message, but Labour then get asked, where is money coming from, answer with corruption and avoidance.

 

The other side bring Tories say you care about our soldiers/police/nurses, well they could afford to feed themselves were it not for corruption etc. You care so much you would rather nurses go to food banks as long as your friends can avoid tax.

 

Talk about policy, positively etc but everything leads back to hammering corruption, self interest, avoidance.

 

"I hear what you are saying, but I think the important point is we easily could fund "x"  if the Tories weren't giving away billions to their friends ? 

I think you're getting it a bit, if only to agree I'm boring

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26 minutes ago, sir roger said:

Great news from the Guarniad , a panicked LOTO have decided we aren't far enough to the right and Starmer is looking for places for Hilary Benn and Yvette Cooper , with a promotion  for Rachel Reeves.

The people of Wales say hello

 

 

Change UK say, fuck off commie we're back in the game

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/19/a-year-on-did-change-uk-change-anything

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47 minutes ago, Brownie said:

It’s been said a million times but it needs to be repeated. Align your policies to your values/principles and then drive the message home.

 

If it’s not something the electorate like, then change their mind rather than abandon your principles.

 

Labour look like they are going to try to shoehorn their ideas into the mood of the electorate rather than trying to change people’s thinking.

Thats how you lose elections.

 

If you're selling a product, which is pretty much the same as trying to win an election, you wont last long if people think your competitions product is better, regardless of how good you think it is.

 

I do get what youre saying, I just think the stuff that doesnt resonate shouldnt be pushed to the forefront. 

 

Edit: I've just remembered you put me on ignore as well. 

 

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39 minutes ago, Brownie said:

It’s been said a million times but it needs to be repeated. Align your policies to your values/principles and then drive the message home.

 

If it’s not something the electorate like, then change their mind rather than abandon your principles.

 

Labour look like they are going to try to shoehorn their ideas into the mood of the electorate rather than trying to change people’s thinking.

I think it needs saying a million and one times that unless you win an election what your principles are don't matter at all for real people living their real lives. It becomes little more than words in a PDF document. There's space to bring the electorate along in a representative democracy, of course, but if you can't then there's just no point in relegating yourself from a party of government to a minor party of protest out of pride or principle.  

 

2 minutes ago, A Red said:

Thats how you lose elections.

To be fair to Brownie, he has been consistent on this - winning the election isn't his primary focus, it's getting the policies and principles right even if that means you don't win the election. Whilst I technically understand what he is saying, I still don't 'get it' as a line of thinking if your objective is to actually help people and make people's lives better - which it obviously is in this care because Brownie is a nice person. I just think the approach to achieving it is going to result in more Tory governments. Which, ya know, I don't want. 

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People claiming Labour have spent the pandemic point scoring.... well actually Starmer has backed most government policies regards Covid and the only times I've seen him really bring them to task is in PMQ's when it's his job to grill the PM and its been about a lot more than just covid policy. They sell the message that the opposition questioning the Tory party about making money out of things like PPE as an attack on their efforts to save lives. The media decide who wins elections. 

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29 minutes ago, Numero said:

I think it needs saying a million and one times that unless you win an election what your principles are don't matter at all for real people living their real lives. It becomes little more than words in a PDF document. There's space to bring the electorate along in a representative democracy, of course, but if you can't then there's just no point in relegating yourself from a party of government to a minor party of protest out of pride or principle.  

 

To be fair to Brownie, he has been consistent on this - winning the election isn't his primary focus, it's getting the policies and principles right even if that means you don't win the election. Whilst I technically understand what he is saying, I still don't 'get it' as a line of thinking if your objective is to actually help people and make people's lives better - which it obviously is in this care because Brownie is a nice person. I just think the approach to achieving it is going to result in more Tory governments. Which, ya know, I don't want. 

Well the opposite approach has just resulted in massive losses. In fact, the only part of the Labour Party that stuck to it’s principles was the only winner (Wales).

 

Presumably, they managed to change the electorate’s thinking, seeing as they increased their vote share and seats.

 

And then you have the likes of Preston council.

 

Seems to be a theme there.

 

If the whole point of changing the leader was to do better in elections, then yikes.

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Looks like there's going to be another review into another election defeat.  They'd better not fuck it up by only looking at what went wrong; they also need to look at places like Wales and Preston, to see what works.

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6 minutes ago, AngryOfTuebrook said:

Looks like there's going to be another review into another election defeat.  They'd better not fuck it up by only looking at what went wrong; they also need to look at places like Wales and Preston, to see what works.

The concern is they already have their answer before the review takes place.

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2 minutes ago, Scooby Dudek said:

The concern is they already have their answer before the review takes place.

That's the best way to keep the Tories in power.

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She’s still deputy leader, she’s being replaced as national coordinator, seems like sensationalist reporting until the detail comes out.

 

Makes sense as the national coordination was terrible... 

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